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Re: [Scouter_T] Survival Game

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  • gaalmus@aol.com
    I, too, believe it was in Woods Wisdom, a copy of which I cannot find. The replacement does not have it. I m continuing my search. Thanks [Non-text
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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      I, too, believe it was in Woods Wisdom, a copy of which I cannot find. The
      replacement does not have it. I'm continuing my search.

      Thanks


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gaalmus@aol.com
      Thank you very much for your response. I had the senario you sent; it isn t the Maine backwoods tale I was looking for. The Maine story, as I recall it,
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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        Thank you very much for your response. I had the senario you sent; it isn't
        the Maine backwoods tale I was looking for. The Maine story, as I recall
        it, was much more Scout-friendly. I continue my search.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-P]
        Interesting, I surprised that they don t ask: With the ground frozen, how do the bury the survivors? ;-) Pete Mullaney ... From: Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 3, 2004
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          Interesting, I surprised that they don't ask: "With the ground frozen,
          how do the bury the survivors?"

          ;-)
          Pete Mullaney

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ken.Walker@... [mailto:Ken.Walker@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:02 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Survival Game


          Gary/all-
          I have "played" this game (and it's variations) in various corporate
          settings.
          (However, I think my group was stranded by a plane crash in Eastern Canada.
          LOL)

          I probably have a copy buried in an old training files, or could recreate a
          list of the props, and their need (or lack there of). However, I think it's
          copyright protected (so the creators can make money selling it to corporate
          trainers.) I can check with a friend that does this for a living and see
          what she knows.

          As I recall, "correct responses" are based on the expert opinion of the
          Canadian SAR (Search & Rescue) teams.
          In fact, the MOST IMPORTANT decision is not "what to take", but "do I go,
          or do I stay?".
          That decision also impacts the priority of the list.
          The right answer is STAY PUT. (Same answer as the Wilderness Survival MB!)

          Of course, the real "learning objective" isn't the decisions -- it's the
          discovery that "none of us is as smart as all of us". Typically, the
          participants will INDIVIDUALLY select their response to the situation, and
          then work as a team to create a team response. USUALLY, the team response
          is much, much better than any individual response. Of course, some highly
          dysfunctional teams regress to a worse set of responses (been there, it
          ain't pretty).

          Here's a link to something that looks similar:
          http://scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/SubPages/SurvivalGame.htm
          <http://scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/SubPages/SurvivalGame.htm>




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
          I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was talking about. It took some digging, as it wasn t part of Wilderness Survival (or
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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            I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was
            talking about.

            It took some digging, as it wasn't part of Wilderness Survival (or
            Emergency Preparation). In fact, I kinda stumbled over it by accident, as
            it's actually in the Leadership section -- figures! The game is called
            "Stranded". I scanned it and put it in the Files section. Look for
            Stranded.doc in the Outdoor_Program section.

            Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
            may get much debate on several "opinions".

            Much of the "Stranded" advice contradicts info provided by the Wilderness
            Survival MB.
            When stranded, your priorities should be:
            1. Positive Mental Attitude
            2. First-Aid
            3. Shelter
            4. Fire building
            5. Signaling device
            6. Water
            7. Food

            Here are some of the recommended items from the Stranded list:
            "Rank #10. Sheath knife. This could be useful for preparing any captured
            animals, such as frogs, or cutting string, cheese, a pole, etc."
            The WS MB doesn't recommend that Scouts capture and/or eat wild animals.
            It's too risky.

            "Rank #13. First-aid kit. Adhesive bandages, aspirin, and petroleum jelly
            would be useful for minor injuries."
            Clearly, this should be MUCH higher based on the priorities above.

            "Rank #15. Map. An auto map could be useful for sighting major land- marks
            like lakes, rivers, etc."
            True. But who's going anywhere?? We teach "hug a tree" when you're lost. No
            need for a map (unless you use it to start a wood fire.!).

            It's also interesting that food is so highly ranked, given it's the LAST
            item in the WS MB priority list.

            Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it says the
            following items would not be necessary:

            "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is potable."
            Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and cryptosporidium, it's
            fool-hardy to drink untreated water in the wilderness.

            "Coleman camp stove. Too heavy; wood fires can be used."
            Who's going anywhere? It could be very handy.

            "Rubber raft. Too heavy; also not likely to be useful"
            True, but could be used as a shelter.

            ".44 Magnum gun. Inaccurate for hunting; caliber too large for small game."
            Again, true, but an EXCELLENT signalling device.


            Enough on the exercise critique - just remember to use it carefully.
            Also, as noted in the document, the real learning object is to learn about
            decision making, reaching a group consensus, and [hopefully] learning that
            a group needs the input from everyone to reach the best decisions.

            -Ken Walker
            T-259, Plano, TX



            Mark Neblung wrote on Nov 2, 2004:
            > What you are looking for is in woods wisdom and I believe
            > also it's replacement, Troop Program features. Going from
            > memory, it should be listed under the Wilderness Survival
            > chapter.
            >
            > If you have problem finding it, let me know and I'll do
            > some digging.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: gaalmus@a... [mailto:gaalmus@a...]
            Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:53 AM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Survival Game

            I am searching for the survival game that involves a group stranded in
            Maine with the option of selecting from several items to ensure survival.
            The game includes an expanation from experts re. which items should be
            welected and why.

            Does anyone have this?
          • NeilLup@aol.com
            ... I first saw this game as a NASA lost on the moon exercise. That had the advantage of not having anybody there who was, or who thought that they were
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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              In a message dated 11/4/04 4:33:12 PM, Ken.Walker@... writes:


              > Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
              > may get much debate on several "opinions".
              >

              I first saw this game as a NASA "lost on the moon" exercise. That had the
              advantage of not having anybody there who was, or who thought that they were
              super experts and of books contradicting the answer sheet.

              I have used that game several times and it has always worked well. It
              might be desirable to determine if you want to have mainly a team activities
              exercise or a wilderness survival discussion and debate.

              Best wishes,

              Neil Lupton


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • R Fisher
              Greetings Ken ... Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to the list, but many survival texts now suggest if rescue is not imminent and
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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                Greetings Ken

                > Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it
                > says the following items would not be necessary:
                >
                > "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is
                > potable." Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and
                > cryptosporidium, it's fool-hardy to drink untreated water in
                > the wilderness.

                Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to the list,
                but many "survival" texts now suggest if rescue is not imminent and if
                the water appears "normal" i.e. in a flowing stream, pond etc. go ahead
                and drink. Giardia and crypto will make you feel bad but can be treated
                once you are rescued. Dehydration and its unpleasant final result
                (death) can prevent you from being rescued and is untreatable.

                YiS

                Roy Fisher
              • R Fisher
                ... OOPS! Well, even if I am contrary, (and maybe a little thick) I hope I was still . . . Friendly, Courteous, Kind . . . YiS Roy Fisher
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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                  >
                  > Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to
                  > the list,

                  OOPS! Well, even if I am contrary, (and maybe a little thick) I hope I
                  was still . . . Friendly, Courteous, Kind . . .

                  YiS

                  Roy Fisher
                • Rod Smith
                  Ken, I haven t been on Scouter -T for awhile and don t remember how to sign on. Can you help me? Rod ... From: Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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                    Ken,

                    I haven't been on Scouter -T for awhile and don't remember how to sign on.
                    Can you help me?

                    Rod

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Ken.Walker@... [mailto:Ken.Walker@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:28 PM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Survival Game


                    I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was
                    talking about.

                    It took some digging, as it wasn't part of Wilderness Survival (or
                    Emergency Preparation). In fact, I kinda stumbled over it by accident, as
                    it's actually in the Leadership section -- figures! The game is called
                    "Stranded". I scanned it and put it in the Files section. Look for
                    Stranded.doc in the Outdoor_Program section.

                    Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
                    may get much debate on several "opinions".

                    Much of the "Stranded" advice contradicts info provided by the Wilderness
                    Survival MB.
                    When stranded, your priorities should be:
                    1. Positive Mental Attitude
                    2. First-Aid
                    3. Shelter
                    4. Fire building
                    5. Signaling device
                    6. Water
                    7. Food

                    Here are some of the recommended items from the Stranded list:
                    "Rank #10. Sheath knife. This could be useful for preparing any captured
                    animals, such as frogs, or cutting string, cheese, a pole, etc."
                    The WS MB doesn't recommend that Scouts capture and/or eat wild animals.
                    It's too risky.

                    "Rank #13. First-aid kit. Adhesive bandages, aspirin, and petroleum jelly
                    would be useful for minor injuries."
                    Clearly, this should be MUCH higher based on the priorities above.

                    "Rank #15. Map. An auto map could be useful for sighting major land- marks
                    like lakes, rivers, etc."
                    True. But who's going anywhere?? We teach "hug a tree" when you're lost. No
                    need for a map (unless you use it to start a wood fire.!).

                    It's also interesting that food is so highly ranked, given it's the LAST
                    item in the WS MB priority list.

                    Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it says the
                    following items would not be necessary:

                    "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is potable."
                    Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and cryptosporidium, it's
                    fool-hardy to drink untreated water in the wilderness.

                    "Coleman camp stove. Too heavy; wood fires can be used."
                    Who's going anywhere? It could be very handy.

                    "Rubber raft. Too heavy; also not likely to be useful"
                    True, but could be used as a shelter.

                    ".44 Magnum gun. Inaccurate for hunting; caliber too large for small game."
                    Again, true, but an EXCELLENT signalling device.


                    Enough on the exercise critique - just remember to use it carefully.
                    Also, as noted in the document, the real learning object is to learn about
                    decision making, reaching a group consensus, and [hopefully] learning that
                    a group needs the input from everyone to reach the best decisions.

                    -Ken Walker
                    T-259, Plano, TX



                    Mark Neblung wrote on Nov 2, 2004:
                    > What you are looking for is in woods wisdom and I believe
                    > also it's replacement, Troop Program features. Going from
                    > memory, it should be listed under the Wilderness Survival
                    > chapter.
                    >
                    > If you have problem finding it, let me know and I'll do
                    > some digging.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gaalmus@a... [mailto:gaalmus@a...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:53 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Survival Game

                    I am searching for the survival game that involves a group stranded in
                    Maine with the option of selecting from several items to ensure survival.
                    The game includes an expanation from experts re. which items should be
                    welected and why.

                    Does anyone have this?




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