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Re: Posting to the group

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  • wbrown@arkie.net
    ... Actually there are a few issues here: 1) New users are on moderation. We implemented this to eliminate the spam the group was getting from people who
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
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      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Mott" <bobwhite_155@v...>
      wrote:

      > I have a question about posting to the group. I sent a response
      > about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew
      > member. I sent this response yesterday as soon as the question
      > came through. But, it did not appear until a few minutes ago,
      > about 24 hours after I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo.
      > Does anyone know why this happened?

      Actually there are a few issues here:

      1) "New" users are on moderation. We implemented this to eliminate
      the spam the group was getting from people who would sign up and
      imediately send some totally inapproporiate message and then
      imeditatly un-subscribe.

      2) "New" users are not automatically "promoted" to unmoderated. A
      moderator has to go in and set this manually (which I have now done
      for you, Brian). Unfortunately, it's not nearly as easy to do this
      as it should be, so it doesn't necessarily happen as soon as it
      should.

      3) Moderated messages take SEVERAL additional automatic steps and
      one additional manual step. A moderated message is forwarded to the
      moderators, they either have to "reply" to the message or go to the
      web page to approve the message. The approved message is NOW put
      into the queue to be delivered. Even the automatic steps can take
      Yahoo from several seconds to many minutes to process (Yahoo
      processes thousands of messages an hour). The time for the manual
      approval is directly proportional to the number of moderators that
      happen to be online at the time.

      > This kind of annoys me, mostly because I am sure this was the
      > reason why we got many responses stating the same answer. Folks
      > saw the question, and no answers, so they answered it.

      I understand your irritation! Unfortunately, this is something that
      I'm afraid we will have to live with to avoid the spam issue! Any
      user that feels that their messages aren't getting to the list in a
      timely manner can e-mail me and I will go back and check to see that
      there is some posting history and then I will switch them to
      unmoderated. We try to do this as the messages come in but sometimes
      folks (like you) slip through the cracks.

      BTW, here is a section from the file that goes to new users that
      discusses this:

      SPAM - New Member Moderation
      ----------------------------
      All new members to the list are configured as "moderated". While
      this is unfortunate, it is a direct response to people who have
      attempted to abuse the list by immediately signing up and then
      sending "spam" to the list members. Spam messages will not be
      approved for distribution to the list.

      Any attempt to "spam" the list will IMEDIATELY result in an ABUSE
      report to Yahoo Groups, your ISP and banning from the list. Most
      ISP's will terminate your account for using their service in this
      manner!
    • Sean Scott
      Brian wrote: I sent a response about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew member. I sent this response yesterday as soon as the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
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        Brian wrote: <snip> I sent a response about the question regarding OA
        elections for a female Crew member. I sent this response yesterday as soon
        as the question came through. But, it did not appear until a few minutes
        ago, about 24 hours after I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo. Does
        anyone know why
        this happened?


        Brian,

        I've noticed that postings to Yahoo have been slow over the past few days.
        It may be that they're doing maintenance, moving servers, or just getting a
        lot of infected mail or spam that their system is having to deal with.

        Sean
      • Ken Walker
        ... More on this phenomenna in a second. ... How bout this for an answer: Cuz it s free? Seriously, we don t pay Y!G one red cent for this service, and many
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
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          --- Brian Mott wrote:
          > I have a question about posting to the group.
          > I posted a message yesterday, but........
          > it did not appear until ......
          > about 24 hours after I sent it.

          More on this phenomenna in a second.
          First, let's answer your question:

          > Does anyone know why this happened?

          How 'bout this for an answer: Cuz it's free?
          Seriously, we don't pay Y!G one red cent for this service, and many
          members also use Yahoo's free email service. It's not a great answer,
          but it's the truth.

          Now, if you want to "read the tea leaves" and see where your message
          was delayed in delivery, click on "Show Headers" and you will see the
          following (I cleaned it up a bit for discussion purposes). It shows
          the journey of your message from the original posting until it's
          delivery to the group. Each "Recieved:" signals a message transfer
          between mail servers. (Time runs backwards, so you have to read from
          bottom to top.)

          ---begin headers---
          From bobwhite_155@v... Thu Apr 08 08:50:24 2004
          Received: (qmail 3829 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2004 10:48:59 -0000

          Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217)
          by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2004 10:48:59 -0000

          Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77)
          by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 10:48:57 -0000

          Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
          08 Apr 2004 10:46:46 -0000

          Received: (qmail 66979 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -
          0000

          Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with
          QMQP; 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -0000

          Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by
          mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -0000

          Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07
          Apr 2004 18:03:30 -0000
          Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:03:29 -0000
          ---end headers---

          What can you see from this mess?
          1) Your original post was YESTERDAY at 18:03 (-0000 => GMT, about 5
          hours later than EDT).

          2) The message merrily bounced through the 2 YG systems before it got
          stuck.

          3) For reasons unknown, it was stuck from 07-Apr/18:05 until 08-
          Apr/10:46 between these 2 servers:
          - n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com
          - m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com

          4) Then, it merrily continued on it's journey thru 3 more servers and
          was delivered around 10:49 GMT (I think).

          5) Also, notice how the message time/date stamp is when you sent it,
          NOT when the server received it?

          6) This also happens when a member is "moderated", and the post must
          be "approved". I assume that's not the issue here (since your 2nd
          message came through so quickly).

          Brian, I have seen this happen with Y!G before. Between Yahoo Mail &
          Groups, they handle a TON of messages. The problem has been
          exacerbated by all of the extra messages generated by the recent
          virii.

          Note - This problem isn't just a Y!G issue. Scouts-L has been "mostly
          down" for a week. That listserv usually sends about 30-50 msgs/day,
          but has only delivered one DIGEST (w/ 50 msgs) since 1-April.

          That's probably more than you ever want to know about YG & email.
          If you really want to discuss, join one of the Y!G email managers
          groups. They discuss this stuff all the time.

          -Ken
        • Scouter Chuck
          Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations of different reasons why this is happening. I can also tell you that my employer (a large
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 9, 2004
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            Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations
            of different reasons why this is happening.

            I can also tell you that my employer (a large corporation) has been
            having a similar issue, although it seems to be resolved much more
            quickly. The only email that seems unaffected by this is Spam,
            which I find both interesting and unfortunate.

            I would, however, like to ask if anyone else has noticed that this
            seems to happen when there is "increased activity" anywhere in the
            Middle East? Such as this last week.

            For that reason, I believe much of it is deliberate, and possibly
            in the form of "Denial Of Service attacks" to the various
            informational services. DOS meaning that they get bombarded with
            so much traffic they have to shut down to keep from crashing the
            servers.

            As far as Scouts-L -- as I only subscribe to 2 listservers -- When
            nothing happens for longer than I think normal, I send a "query
            scouts-l" to the list command address. I'll generally get a note
            back that I am "subscribed with the following options" followed by
            the list. If that happens, I know I's still subscribed and that
            the list is probably down. Doing that cuts down immensely on the
            number of "What's wrong with the list" postings that inevitably
            follow these outages.

            On the YahooGroups, of course, we can just check the Group page.
            If you can't get in, or the Group is not listed on your "MyGroups"
            page, then you aren't subscribed.

            Hope this helps some...

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
            Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
            -- Stephen R. Covey
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Dave Loomis
            Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has been postponed due to the
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 10, 2004
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              Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I
              receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has
              been postponed due to the list being held, which accomplishes the same
              purpose.

              In other words, if you check your Inbox shortly after posting a
              message to Scouts-L, you can tell if it has been placed on the list,
              or if the list is being held for one reason or another.

              Dave


              Scouter Chuck wrote:

              > Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations
              > of different reasons why this is happening.
              >
              > As far as Scouts-L -- as I only subscribe to 2 listservers -- When
              > nothing happens for longer than I think normal, I send a "query
              > scouts-l" to the list command address. I'll generally get a note
              > back that I am "subscribed with the following options" followed by
              > the list. If that happens, I know I's still subscribed and that
              > the list is probably down. Doing that cuts down immensely on the
              > number of "What's wrong with the list" postings that inevitably
              > follow these outages.
              >
              > On the YahooGroups, of course, we can just check the Group page.
              > If you can't get in, or the Group is not listed on your "MyGroups"
              > page, then you aren't subscribed.
              >
              > Hope this helps some...
              >
              > YiS,
              >
              > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
              > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
              > Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC


              To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

              Dave Loomis mailto: dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
              245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
              Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
            • Scouter Chuck
              Dave Loomis wrote... ... True, but that uses up one of the 50 daily message spots, where a query doesn t. YiS, Chuck
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 10, 2004
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                Dave Loomis wrote...

                > Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I
                > receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has
                > been postponed due to the list being held, which accomplishes the same
                > purpose.
                >
                > In other words, if you check your Inbox shortly after posting a
                > message to Scouts-L, you can tell if it has been placed on the list,
                > or if the list is being held for one reason or another.

                True, but that uses up one of the 50 daily message spots, where
                a query doesn't.

                YiS,

                Chuck
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