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Posting to the group

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  • Brian Mott
    I have a question about posting to the group. I sent a response about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew member. I sent this response
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
      I have a question about posting to the group. I sent a response
      about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew member.
      I sent this response yesterday as soon as the question came through.
      But, it did not appear until a few minutes ago, about 24 hours after
      I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo. Does anyone know why
      this happened?

      This kind of annoys me, mostly because I am sure this was the reason
      why we got many responses stating the same answer. Folks saw the
      question, and no answers, so they answered it.

      Brian
      York, PA
    • wbrown@arkie.net
      ... Actually there are a few issues here: 1) New users are on moderation. We implemented this to eliminate the spam the group was getting from people who
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Mott" <bobwhite_155@v...>
        wrote:

        > I have a question about posting to the group. I sent a response
        > about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew
        > member. I sent this response yesterday as soon as the question
        > came through. But, it did not appear until a few minutes ago,
        > about 24 hours after I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo.
        > Does anyone know why this happened?

        Actually there are a few issues here:

        1) "New" users are on moderation. We implemented this to eliminate
        the spam the group was getting from people who would sign up and
        imediately send some totally inapproporiate message and then
        imeditatly un-subscribe.

        2) "New" users are not automatically "promoted" to unmoderated. A
        moderator has to go in and set this manually (which I have now done
        for you, Brian). Unfortunately, it's not nearly as easy to do this
        as it should be, so it doesn't necessarily happen as soon as it
        should.

        3) Moderated messages take SEVERAL additional automatic steps and
        one additional manual step. A moderated message is forwarded to the
        moderators, they either have to "reply" to the message or go to the
        web page to approve the message. The approved message is NOW put
        into the queue to be delivered. Even the automatic steps can take
        Yahoo from several seconds to many minutes to process (Yahoo
        processes thousands of messages an hour). The time for the manual
        approval is directly proportional to the number of moderators that
        happen to be online at the time.

        > This kind of annoys me, mostly because I am sure this was the
        > reason why we got many responses stating the same answer. Folks
        > saw the question, and no answers, so they answered it.

        I understand your irritation! Unfortunately, this is something that
        I'm afraid we will have to live with to avoid the spam issue! Any
        user that feels that their messages aren't getting to the list in a
        timely manner can e-mail me and I will go back and check to see that
        there is some posting history and then I will switch them to
        unmoderated. We try to do this as the messages come in but sometimes
        folks (like you) slip through the cracks.

        BTW, here is a section from the file that goes to new users that
        discusses this:

        SPAM - New Member Moderation
        ----------------------------
        All new members to the list are configured as "moderated". While
        this is unfortunate, it is a direct response to people who have
        attempted to abuse the list by immediately signing up and then
        sending "spam" to the list members. Spam messages will not be
        approved for distribution to the list.

        Any attempt to "spam" the list will IMEDIATELY result in an ABUSE
        report to Yahoo Groups, your ISP and banning from the list. Most
        ISP's will terminate your account for using their service in this
        manner!
      • Nell Colbert
        Brian, In the last several days, YahooGroups has apparently been experiencing a large volume of traffic in their system. I moderate a number of YahooGroups
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
          Brian,



          In the last several days, YahooGroups has apparently been experiencing a
          large volume of traffic in their system. I moderate a number of YahooGroups
          sites and found that it took about 24 hours for messages to appear on the
          lists after they were approved on all of the sites.



          Hope this gives you some explanation.



          Nell Colbert

          Little Econ District

          Central Florida Council.



          _____

          From: Brian Mott [mailto:bobwhite_155@...]
          Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:23 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Posting to the group



          I have a question about posting to the group. I sent a response
          about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew member.
          I sent this response yesterday as soon as the question came through.
          But, it did not appear until a few minutes ago, about 24 hours after
          I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo. Does anyone know why
          this happened?

          This kind of annoys me, mostly because I am sure this was the reason
          why we got many responses stating the same answer. Folks saw the
          question, and no answers, so they answered it.

          Brian
          York, PA




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sean Scott
          Brian wrote: I sent a response about the question regarding OA elections for a female Crew member. I sent this response yesterday as soon as the
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
            Brian wrote: <snip> I sent a response about the question regarding OA
            elections for a female Crew member. I sent this response yesterday as soon
            as the question came through. But, it did not appear until a few minutes
            ago, about 24 hours after I sent it using the web interface at Yahoo. Does
            anyone know why
            this happened?


            Brian,

            I've noticed that postings to Yahoo have been slow over the past few days.
            It may be that they're doing maintenance, moving servers, or just getting a
            lot of infected mail or spam that their system is having to deal with.

            Sean
          • Ken Walker
            ... More on this phenomenna in a second. ... How bout this for an answer: Cuz it s free? Seriously, we don t pay Y!G one red cent for this service, and many
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 8, 2004
              --- Brian Mott wrote:
              > I have a question about posting to the group.
              > I posted a message yesterday, but........
              > it did not appear until ......
              > about 24 hours after I sent it.

              More on this phenomenna in a second.
              First, let's answer your question:

              > Does anyone know why this happened?

              How 'bout this for an answer: Cuz it's free?
              Seriously, we don't pay Y!G one red cent for this service, and many
              members also use Yahoo's free email service. It's not a great answer,
              but it's the truth.

              Now, if you want to "read the tea leaves" and see where your message
              was delayed in delivery, click on "Show Headers" and you will see the
              following (I cleaned it up a bit for discussion purposes). It shows
              the journey of your message from the original posting until it's
              delivery to the group. Each "Recieved:" signals a message transfer
              between mail servers. (Time runs backwards, so you have to read from
              bottom to top.)

              ---begin headers---
              From bobwhite_155@v... Thu Apr 08 08:50:24 2004
              Received: (qmail 3829 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2004 10:48:59 -0000

              Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217)
              by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2004 10:48:59 -0000

              Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77)
              by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 10:48:57 -0000

              Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
              08 Apr 2004 10:46:46 -0000

              Received: (qmail 66979 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -
              0000

              Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with
              QMQP; 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -0000

              Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by
              mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 18:04:52 -0000

              Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07
              Apr 2004 18:03:30 -0000
              Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:03:29 -0000
              ---end headers---

              What can you see from this mess?
              1) Your original post was YESTERDAY at 18:03 (-0000 => GMT, about 5
              hours later than EDT).

              2) The message merrily bounced through the 2 YG systems before it got
              stuck.

              3) For reasons unknown, it was stuck from 07-Apr/18:05 until 08-
              Apr/10:46 between these 2 servers:
              - n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com
              - m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com

              4) Then, it merrily continued on it's journey thru 3 more servers and
              was delivered around 10:49 GMT (I think).

              5) Also, notice how the message time/date stamp is when you sent it,
              NOT when the server received it?

              6) This also happens when a member is "moderated", and the post must
              be "approved". I assume that's not the issue here (since your 2nd
              message came through so quickly).

              Brian, I have seen this happen with Y!G before. Between Yahoo Mail &
              Groups, they handle a TON of messages. The problem has been
              exacerbated by all of the extra messages generated by the recent
              virii.

              Note - This problem isn't just a Y!G issue. Scouts-L has been "mostly
              down" for a week. That listserv usually sends about 30-50 msgs/day,
              but has only delivered one DIGEST (w/ 50 msgs) since 1-April.

              That's probably more than you ever want to know about YG & email.
              If you really want to discuss, join one of the Y!G email managers
              groups. They discuss this stuff all the time.

              -Ken
            • Scouter Chuck
              Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations of different reasons why this is happening. I can also tell you that my employer (a large
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 9, 2004
                Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations
                of different reasons why this is happening.

                I can also tell you that my employer (a large corporation) has been
                having a similar issue, although it seems to be resolved much more
                quickly. The only email that seems unaffected by this is Spam,
                which I find both interesting and unfortunate.

                I would, however, like to ask if anyone else has noticed that this
                seems to happen when there is "increased activity" anywhere in the
                Middle East? Such as this last week.

                For that reason, I believe much of it is deliberate, and possibly
                in the form of "Denial Of Service attacks" to the various
                informational services. DOS meaning that they get bombarded with
                so much traffic they have to shut down to keep from crashing the
                servers.

                As far as Scouts-L -- as I only subscribe to 2 listservers -- When
                nothing happens for longer than I think normal, I send a "query
                scouts-l" to the list command address. I'll generally get a note
                back that I am "subscribed with the following options" followed by
                the list. If that happens, I know I's still subscribed and that
                the list is probably down. Doing that cuts down immensely on the
                number of "What's wrong with the list" postings that inevitably
                follow these outages.

                On the YahooGroups, of course, we can just check the Group page.
                If you can't get in, or the Group is not listed on your "MyGroups"
                page, then you aren't subscribed.

                Hope this helps some...

                YiS,

                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                -------------------------------------------------------------------
                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                -- Stephen R. Covey
                -------------------------------------------------------------------
              • Dave Loomis
                Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has been postponed due to the
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 10, 2004
                  Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I
                  receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has
                  been postponed due to the list being held, which accomplishes the same
                  purpose.

                  In other words, if you check your Inbox shortly after posting a
                  message to Scouts-L, you can tell if it has been placed on the list,
                  or if the list is being held for one reason or another.

                  Dave


                  Scouter Chuck wrote:

                  > Both Ken Walker and the Moderator have sent some good explanations
                  > of different reasons why this is happening.
                  >
                  > As far as Scouts-L -- as I only subscribe to 2 listservers -- When
                  > nothing happens for longer than I think normal, I send a "query
                  > scouts-l" to the list command address. I'll generally get a note
                  > back that I am "subscribed with the following options" followed by
                  > the list. If that happens, I know I's still subscribed and that
                  > the list is probably down. Doing that cuts down immensely on the
                  > number of "What's wrong with the list" postings that inevitably
                  > follow these outages.
                  >
                  > On the YahooGroups, of course, we can just check the Group page.
                  > If you can't get in, or the Group is not listed on your "MyGroups"
                  > page, then you aren't subscribed.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps some...
                  >
                  > YiS,
                  >
                  > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                  > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                  > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                  > Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC


                  To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

                  Dave Loomis mailto: dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                  245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                  Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                • Scouter Chuck
                  Dave Loomis wrote... ... True, but that uses up one of the 50 daily message spots, where a query doesn t. YiS, Chuck
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 10, 2004
                    Dave Loomis wrote...

                    > Generally when I post to Scouts-L under these circumstances, I
                    > receive a message informing me that the distribution of my message has
                    > been postponed due to the list being held, which accomplishes the same
                    > purpose.
                    >
                    > In other words, if you check your Inbox shortly after posting a
                    > message to Scouts-L, you can tell if it has been placed on the list,
                    > or if the list is being held for one reason or another.

                    True, but that uses up one of the 50 daily message spots, where
                    a query doesn't.

                    YiS,

                    Chuck
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