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SSAN on Applications

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  • Dan Hammond, Sr.
    Many have asked and much info has been provided about the Social Security Account Number requested on the adult leader application. Just using a name check is
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 30, 2004
      Many have asked and much info has been provided about
      the Social Security Account Number requested on the
      adult leader application. Just using a name check is
      terribly unreliable.

      At one point in my Army career I was responsible for
      the initial entry national agency background checks
      that were done as part of joining the Army from the
      Kansas City area. We had the option to run SSAN
      checks (took longer) or name checks (faster, but
      potentially less accurate). One of my recruiters
      selected the name check option on a young lady named
      Kathy Smith. The records returned would curl your
      hair. A subsequent resubmission based on SSAN showed
      no criminal record at all.

      BSA uses SSAN to run a background check through an
      agency called Checkpoint. The SSAN is only on the
      council copy, other copies have the area blacked out,
      so it isn't retained at unit level.

      The requirement to submit a new application with each
      position helps to prevent potentially undesirable
      leaders from jumpimg from one unit or even
      district/council to another without being checked.
      Such movement is a technique that molesters sometimes
      use to prevent being caught/prosecuted. They try to
      move prior to being caught. The background check
      reduces that ability.

      Should any derogatory information come back from a
      check, it is provided only to the Scout Executive. He
      or she then makes a determination as to whether that
      leader needs to be removed.

      Since we trust Scout Executives with sensitive
      information regarding potential abuse cases through
      Youth Protection reporting, I don't see why we
      shouldn't trust them with derogatory information
      coming from a SSAN based background check.

      =====
      Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA
      Leavenworth, KS, Army Major, NRA Life Member, Overtrained Scout Leader, Kaw District Membership Chairman, CM P3001, SA T366
      |<--W-W-W--<<<| I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)

      Cheerful Service; just because it's the right thing to do

      __________________________________
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    • NeilLup@aol.com
      ... To support this, I had a Scout Executive recently tell me that it is amazing how many baby boomers had smoked pot in college. The records all come
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 30, 2004
        In a message dated 3/30/04 10:35:27 AM, danhammondsr@... writes:


        > Should any derogatory information come back from a
        > check, it is provided only to the Scout Executive.  He
        > or she then makes a determination as to whether that
        > leader needs to be removed.
        >
        > Since we trust Scout Executives with sensitive
        > information regarding potential abuse cases through
        > Youth Protection reporting, I don't see why we
        > shouldn't trust them with derogatory information
        > coming from a SSAN based background check.
        >
        >

        To support this, I had a Scout Executive recently tell me that it is
        amazing how many baby boomers had smoked pot in college. The records all come
        back during the background check. And this SE says, that was then, this is
        now.

        Identity theft is certainly a serious problem but the problem of serial child
        abuse, etc. is also an extremely serious problem for the BSA. The BSA is
        trying extremely hard to continue to address this problem. I would believe
        that any individual who declines to provide their SSAN but would supply other
        information permitting a thorough background check to be done would receive a
        respectful hearing.

        Best wishes,

        Neil Lupton


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kent Wolfe
        We had a scout leader here in Lincoln recently get arrested for child sexual abuse. The troop was formed for boys whose families immigrated to the US, so the
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 30, 2004
          We had a scout leader here in Lincoln recently get arrested for child
          sexual abuse. The troop was formed for boys whose families immigrated
          to the US, so the parents often don't speak English or at least speak it
          poorly. He was the head of the Lincoln Interfaith council (he is a
          minister) which chartered the troop about 5 years ago. He probably
          approved his own application on the unit level. As everything came out,
          he has a record for the same thing 20-30 years ago in California. If
          the new app with the SSN were in place when he completed the app a few
          years ago, the current situation might have been avoided.

          Kent Wolfe
          Lincoln, NE
        • Scouter Chuck
          There was an article in Wired a while back, on the use or overuse of the SSN as an ID number. ... While I agree that we need to do something about the problem
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 31, 2004
            There was an article in Wired a while back, on the use or overuse
            of the SSN as an ID number.

            The article can be referenced here:
            > 9-Digit 'Social' Overused as ID
            > http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,57395,00.html

            Two quotes from that article that bear on this situation are:
            > Faced with growing pressure from constituents concerned about the
            > risks of identity theft, lawmakers are contemplating ways to
            > curtail use of Social Security numbers for purposes other than
            > taxpayer identification.

            > "The Social Security number is so abused in today's world that
            > it's a very, very poor way to identify anyone," Allen said. "They
            > need to come up with some other way."

            While I agree that we need to do something about the problem of
            getting properly "vetted" people in leadership positions, I'm not
            completely certain that this is the way to go about it.

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
            Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
            -- Stephen R. Covey
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
            Although I think the SSAN/application discussion is a bit off-topic in a training forum, the owner/moderator hasn t made the same observation. So, here s my
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 3, 2004
              Although I think the SSAN/application discussion is a bit off-topic in a
              training forum, the owner/moderator hasn't made the same observation. So,
              here's my belated 0.02 worth.....

              Chuck hit the nail on the head. I'm not worried about the Council
              professionals misuse of my SSAN. I'm worried about what happens to that
              little slip 'o paper AFTER they've completed the background check. My guess
              is they're filed in the dumpster behind the council offices. You know how
              personal information is usually stolen? Yep - dumpster diving thieves.
              There's enough info on a BSA application for a identity thief to have a his
              way with your financial life.

              First, there's your address and phone number. That's all he needs to "drop
              by" and grab a few bank and credit card statements from the mailbox. Once
              he has account numbers and the SSAN, he is armed and very dangerous. Call
              your financial institution, and what's the typical "secret code" to access
              private financial information? I usually get these two questions:
              -"What is your mailing address?" and
              -"What are the last for digits of your SSN?"

              TA DA! Done! He's in. Next step -- he changes the mailing address, orders
              some checks, has new cards sent, and your life becomes pure misery.
              Don't think it can happen to you? Think again. It happens every day.
              Identity theft is the top consumer fraud gripe in our country.

              If you haven't followed Chuck's link, you should. And, if you don't ask
              yourself - does this person REALLY need my SSAN? you better!

              Note - I agree that we need to screen adult leaders and run complete
              background checks (using the SSAN if necessary). However, I would prefer
              BSA use a separate "Consent to Background Check" form that only has the
              name and SSAN. Let's not make it too easy for a thief to get all the
              information from one sheet of paper!

              -Ken

              Scouter Chuck observed:

              >
              > There was an article in Wired a while back, on the use or overuse
              > of the SSN as an ID number.
              >
              > The article can be referenced here:
              > > 9-Digit 'Social' Overused as ID
              > > http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,57395,00.html
              >
              > Two quotes from that article that bear on this situation are:
              > > Faced with growing pressure from constituents concerned about the
              > > risks of identity theft, lawmakers are contemplating ways to
              > > curtail use of Social Security numbers for purposes other than
              > > taxpayer identification.
              >
              > > "The Social Security number is so abused in today's world that
              > > it's a very, very poor way to identify anyone," Allen said. "They
              > > need to come up with some other way."
              >
              > While I agree that we need to do something about the problem of
              > getting properly "vetted" people in leadership positions, I'm not
              > completely certain that this is the way to go about it.
            • Margaret Eacker
              Actually the Council has to keep their copy for audit purposes. Most Councils also use a shredding service for any documents of sensitive nature. M Eacker
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 4, 2004
                Actually the Council has to keep their copy for audit purposes.
                Most Councils also use a shredding service for any documents of
                sensitive nature.

                M Eacker
                Double Buffalo
                Wife of Council President
                On Saturday, April 3, 2004, at 08:57 AM, Ken.Walker@...
                wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Although I think the SSAN/application discussion is a bit off-topic in
                > a
                > training forum, the owner/moderator hasn't made the same observation.
                > So,
                > here's my belated 0.02 worth.....
                >
                > Chuck hit the nail on the head. I'm not worried about the Council
                > professionals misuse of my SSAN. I'm worried about what happens to that
                > little slip 'o paper AFTER they've completed the background check. My
                > guess
                > is they're filed in the dumpster behind the council offices. You know
                > how
                > personal information is usually stolen? Yep - dumpster diving thieves.
                > There's enough info on a BSA application for a identity thief to have
                > a his
                > way with your financial life.
                >
                > First, there's your address and phone number. That's all he needs to
                > "drop
                > by" and grab a few bank and credit card statements from the mailbox.
                > Once
                > he has account numbers and the SSAN, he is armed and very dangerous.
                > Call
                > your financial institution, and what's the typical "secret code" to
                > access
                > private financial information? I usually get these two questions:
                > -"What is your mailing address?" and
                > -"What are the last for digits of your SSN?"
                >
                > TA DA! Done! He's in. Next step -- he changes the mailing address,
                > orders
                > some checks, has new cards sent, and your life becomes pure misery.
                > Don't think it can happen to you? Think again. It happens every day.
                > Identity theft is the top consumer fraud gripe in our country.
                >
                > If you haven't followed Chuck's link, you should. And, if you don't ask
                > yourself - does this person REALLY need my SSAN? you better!
                >
                > Note - I agree that we need to screen adult leaders and run complete
                > background checks (using the SSAN if necessary). However, I would
                > prefer
                > BSA use a separate "Consent to Background Check" form that only has the
                > name and SSAN. Let's not make it too easy for a thief to get all the
                > information from one sheet of paper!
                >
                > -Ken
                >
                > Scouter Chuck observed:
                >
                > >
                > > There was an article in Wired a while back, on the use or overuse
                > > of the SSN as an ID number.
                > >
                > > The article can be referenced here:
                > > > 9-Digit 'Social' Overused as ID
                > > > http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,57395,00.html
                > >
                > > Two quotes from that article that bear on this situation are:
                > > > Faced with growing pressure from constituents concerned about the
                > > > risks of identity theft, lawmakers are contemplating ways to
                > > > curtail use of Social Security numbers for purposes other than
                > > > taxpayer identification.
                > >
                > > > "The Social Security number is so abused in today's world that
                > > > it's a very, very poor way to identify anyone," Allen said. "They
                > > > need to come up with some other way."
                > >
                > > While I agree that we need to do something about the problem of
                > > getting properly "vetted" people in leadership positions, I'm not
                > > completely certain that this is the way to go about it.
                >
                >
                >
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