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LST & NLE delivery methods?

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  • Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
    Gang- I m usually a lurker on this list, but I have a question for the group: For those that know, how does your district training team present the material
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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      Gang-
      I'm usually a lurker on this list, but I have a question for the group:

      For those that know, how does your district training team "present" the
      material for Leader Specific Training? (and NLE for that matter.)
      There are many methods:
      - PowerPoint w/ projection equipment
      - PowerPoint created overheads (eg "foils")
      - Print out PPT hand-outs
      - Flip charts ("PaperPoint")
      - Whiteboard
      - Feltboard
      - good old fashioned lectures
      - other methods?

      Why do I ask? It seems BSA-National is pushing to standardize presentations
      using "modern electronic techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection
      system). I use PPT all the time in business -- this is no big deal to me.
      However, it seems most trainers DON'T have access to electronic methods.

      I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the first weekend seems
      to be dominated by PPT presentations.

      I'm interested in any and all observations from others. I would prefer to
      keep the discussion on the methods, and not opinions on the methods <grin>.
      Hopefully, trainers use techniques that work best for them AND their
      audience. Right?

      -Ken Walker
      ASM T-259
      Plano, TX
    • Vicki Ballard
      We use all of them. some people need to see it and have it in hand before the get it. plus it makes for a great resource if they have it in hand. Also by
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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        We use all of them. some people need to see it and have it in hand before
        the get it. plus it makes for a great resource if they have it in hand.
        Also by using all the different methods we get a great response back about
        not being bored with the presentations.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Ken.Walker@...>
        To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 3:21 PM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] LST & NLE delivery methods?


        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Gang-
        > I'm usually a lurker on this list, but I have a question for the group:
        >
        > For those that know, how does your district training team "present" the
        > material for Leader Specific Training? (and NLE for that matter.)
        > There are many methods:
        > - PowerPoint w/ projection equipment
        > - PowerPoint created overheads (eg "foils")
        > - Print out PPT hand-outs
        > - Flip charts ("PaperPoint")
        > - Whiteboard
        > - Feltboard
        > - good old fashioned lectures
        > - other methods?
        >
        > Why do I ask? It seems BSA-National is pushing to standardize
        presentations
        > using "modern electronic techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection
        > system). I use PPT all the time in business -- this is no big deal to me.
        > However, it seems most trainers DON'T have access to electronic methods.
        >
        > I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the first weekend seems
        > to be dominated by PPT presentations.
        >
        > I'm interested in any and all observations from others. I would prefer to
        > keep the discussion on the methods, and not opinions on the methods
        <grin>.
        > Hopefully, trainers use techniques that work best for them AND their
        > audience. Right?
        >
        > -Ken Walker
        > ASM T-259
        > Plano, TX
        >
        >
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      • Fred Goodwin, CMA
        For NLE, our district is blessed to be able to do the course in a multimedia-equipped room at a large Methodist church (the church sponsors a large & active
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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          For NLE, our district is blessed to be able to do the course in a
          multimedia-equipped room at a large Methodist church (the church sponsors a
          large & active Troop & Pack). We use a combination of PPT and video
          projected on a large screen. We also use limited lecture, role play and
          group exercises.

          For LST, we don't use PPT because the groups are smaller and the breakout
          rooms aren't each equipped for a multimedia presentation. We use a VCR and
          TV with lecture / discussion and group exercises (e.g., the uniform game).

          Both courses make extensive use of the posters provided as part of the
          course materials. We also provide a basic set of handouts that comprise the
          attachments that are referred to during the discussions.

          The above comments apply to Cub Leader training -- I can't speak to how Boy
          Scout & Venturing training is conducted, other than the joint NLE sessions.

          Fred Goodwin
          Keystone District Training Team
          Alamo Area Council

          > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:21:58 -0600
          > From: Ken.Walker@...
          >
          > For those that know, how does your district training team "present"
          > the material for Leader Specific Training? (and NLE for that matter.)
        • Ken Todd
          Ken, I present the material using whatever means is available. When available, I use PowerPoint. When not, I use flip charts. My second Boy Scout Training
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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            Ken,

            I present the material using whatever means is available. When available, I use PowerPoint. When not, I use flip charts. My second Boy Scout Training Chairman modified the PowerPoint slides and created overhead slides from that presentation for the SM Specific course.

            I disagree with your statement about BSA standardizing our presentations with the PowerPoint slides. I saw it as BSA saying, we have a new technology and here are some resources for you to use to take advantage of those resources. There is nothing that says you cannot take the basic material they have provided and add to it, ad some pizazz.

            Same with the Wood Badge presentations. Our SA-Program modified all of her presentations to add some pizazz and fit her style. For the Troop Guide presentations, we did not have projectors for each Patrol, so they either printed the slides and put them in a flip folder, used whiteboards in the rooms, or used flip charts.

            As long as we cover the outline provided in the syllabus, we can take what BSA has provided us and make it fit our situation.

            Yours in Scouting,
            Ken
            Council Cub Scout Training Chair

            Ken.Walker@... wrote:

            ... It seems BSA-National is pushing to standardize
            presentations using "modern electronic techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection system). ...

            ... I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the first weekend
            seems to be dominated by PPT presentations....


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          • NeilLup@aol.com
            ... I can state with total confidence that although this may appear to be the case, it is not. However, there are several factors at play: 1) The
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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              >
              > >
              > > Why do I ask? It seems BSA-National is pushing to standardize
              > presentations
              > > using "modern electronic techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection
              > > system). I use PPT all the time in business -- this is no big deal to me.
              > > However, it seems most trainers DON'T have access to electronic methods.
              > >
              > > I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the first weekend seems
              > > to be dominated by PPT presentations.
              >
              I can state with total confidence that although this may appear to be the
              case, it is not. However, there are several factors at play:

              1) The students that we have are much more familiar with and comfortable
              with electronic methods. If we don't use them, we may be turned off for
              being obsolete.
              2) There is some desire for quality standards. However, the
              PowerPoint presentations are intended as a starting point, not an end point.
              3) The idea behind some of the "canned" presentations was to enable trainers
              who didn't have as much time and expertise in preparing presentations to do a
              great job also. But those presentations were never intended as a mandatory
              script or as a mandated series of presentations.
              4) At our last Wood Badge Course Director's Development Conference for
              Northeast Region, we suggested that at least 30-50% of the presentations be s
              omething other than PowerPoint. In addition to the methods you mentioned,
              I might suggest role playing, acting, discussion groups, buzz groups,
              patrol groups, etc.. And I would disagree that most of the learning the first
              weekend of WB21C took place through PowerPoint. Consider the WB Game Show,
              the Game of Life, the Model Campfire, the Troop Meeting, The Rocket
              Game, The movie (I forget the name) about Rocket Boys, etc. etc.
              5) Virtually all trainers have a computer now and that normally means
              PowerPoint. Many people have access to a projector and they aren't that
              expensive, so it is becoming realistic for councils to acquire them.

              So if someone is trying to force PowerPoint, they are putting words into
              National's Mouth that National isn't saying. Use ALL methods including
              PowerPoint. Maintain interest. But maintain quality.

              Best wishes,

              Neil Lupton
              > >
              > >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lloyd Solis
              We use Power Point and VCR s for the video segments of NLE. Powerpoint for LST. Council has several projectors that are loaned out through DE s. We used one
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 28, 2004
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                We use Power Point and VCR's for the video segments of NLE. Powerpoint
                for LST. Council has several projectors that are loaned out through
                DE's. We used one on Sunday for presentations at our District Banquet.
                Lloyd
                SELA

                Ken.Walker@... wrote:

                >
                >
                >Gang-
                >I'm usually a lurker on this list, but I have a question for the group:
                >
                >For those that know, how does your district training team "present" the
                >material for Leader Specific Training? (and NLE for that matter.)
                >There are many methods:
                >- PowerPoint w/ projection equipment
                >- PowerPoint created overheads (eg "foils")
                >- Print out PPT hand-outs
                >- Flip charts ("PaperPoint")
                >- Whiteboard
                >- Feltboard
                >- good old fashioned lectures
                >- other methods?
                >
                >Why do I ask? It seems BSA-National is pushing to standardize presentations
                >using "modern electronic techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection
                >system). I use PPT all the time in business -- this is no big deal to me.
                >However, it seems most trainers DON'T have access to electronic methods.
                >
                >I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the first weekend seems
                >to be dominated by PPT presentations.
                >
                >I'm interested in any and all observations from others. I would prefer to
                >keep the discussion on the methods, and not opinions on the methods <grin>.
                >Hopefully, trainers use techniques that work best for them AND their
                >audience. Right?
                >
                >-Ken Walker
                >ASM T-259
                >Plano, TX
                >
                >
                >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scouter_t/
                >
                >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > scouter_t-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Curt Stoltz
                One of National s goals is to make sure everyone s training is the same. This is especially true for YPP (it has a very rigid syllabus for class presentations
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 29, 2004
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                  One of National's goals is to make sure everyone's training is the same. This is especially true for YPP (it has a very rigid syllabus for class presentations with the video, and the web based training).

                  At PTC in 2002 we had a session with the gentleman from National who is in charge of Boy Scout training. He just about went ballistic when I mentioned that I had customized the Scoutmaster Specific and NLE presentations to include information specific to our District (things like names, faces, locations, service centers hours, etc.). He said the presentations are intended to be given exactly as written with little deviation. This led to a lively discussion. After he left the consensus of our group was that "there are some things too important to be left to the paid professionals"!

                  YiS

                  Curt




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                • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                  ... From: Curt Stoltz [mailto:stoltzcw@yahoo.com] One of National s goals is to make sure everyone s training is the same. This is especially true for YPP (it
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 29, 2004
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                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Curt Stoltz [mailto:stoltzcw@...]

                    One of National's goals is to make sure everyone's training is the same.
                    This is especially true for YPP (it has a very rigid syllabus for class
                    presentations with the video, and the web based training).




                    YPP? Youth Protection Training? If so there are different laws in
                    different states, and training has to be tailored to make trainees aware of
                    the local laws.

                    Pete Mullaney


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dan Hammond, Sr.
                    Ken Wlalker queried the group as follows: Gang- I m usually a lurker on this list, but I have a question for the group: For those that know, how does your
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 29, 2004
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                      Ken Wlalker queried the group as follows:

                      "Gang-
                      I'm usually a lurker on this list, but I have a
                      question for the group:

                      For those that know, how does your district training
                      team "present" the material for Leader Specific
                      Training? (and NLE for that matter.)
                      There are many methods:
                      - PowerPoint w/ projection equipment
                      - PowerPoint created overheads (eg "foils")
                      - Print out PPT hand-outs
                      - Flip charts ("PaperPoint")
                      - Whiteboard
                      - Feltboard
                      - good old fashioned lectures
                      - other methods?

                      Why do I ask? It seems BSA-National is pushing to
                      standardize presentations using "modern electronic
                      techniques" (eg, PowerPoint on a projection
                      system). I use PPT all the time in business -- this is

                      no big deal to me. However, it seems most trainers
                      DON'T have access to electronic methods.

                      I also see this issue on the new WB21C courses -- the
                      first weekend seems to be dominated by PPT
                      presentations.

                      I'm interested in any and all observations from
                      others. I would prefer to keep the discussion on the
                      methods, and not opinions on the methods <grin>.
                      Hopefully, trainers use techniques that work best for
                      them AND their audience. Right?"

                      -Ken Walker
                      ASM T-259
                      Plano, TX

                      Great question! As we just covered in the Trainer
                      Development Conference I staffed this weekend, all are
                      applicable to some degree. There are a few other
                      methods covered, but they are generally used in the
                      context of some of the other techniques. For example,
                      buzz groups and case studies often round out a good
                      lecture that is supported by A-V in the form of
                      PowerPoint or transparencies.

                      As a general rule, I try to use a couple of different
                      techniques together in order to reach different
                      learning styles. And the syllabi for most courses
                      support this. NLE has handouts to accompany the
                      PowerPoint and video presentations. It also advises
                      the instructor to use a chalkboard or whiteboard to
                      record responses to certain questions asked throughout
                      the presentation.

                      Of course the syllabus for Introduction to Outdoor
                      Leader Skills (IOLS) is completely devoid of
                      PowerPoint stuff since it's all planned to be outdoors
                      and hands-on with demonstrations and discussions.

                      And more and more trainers are finding they have
                      access to electronic presentation equipment. Our TDC
                      had no fewer than three computer/projector
                      combinations (most borrowed from the workplace) and
                      two overheads.

                      I hope this helps.


                      =====
                      Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA
                      Leavenworth, KS, Army Major, NRA Life Member, Overtrained Scout Leader, Kaw District Membership Chairman, CM P3001, SA T366
                      |<--W-W-W--<<<| I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)

                      Cheerful Service; just because it's the right thing to do

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                    • Dave Loomis
                      That s a bit odd because when we were at Philmont the national Boy Scout Training Chair, John Alline, told us that initially they had no intent to use
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 29, 2004
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                        That's a bit odd because when we were at Philmont the national Boy
                        Scout Training Chair, John Alline, told us that initially they had no
                        intent to use PowerPoint in any of these courses, but they got so many
                        PP presentations that they decided to go through them, taking the best
                        from each presentation and provide the newly mastered presentation to
                        all of us to use if and as we so desired.

                        Dave

                        Curt Stoltz wrote:
                        > One of National's goals is to make sure everyone's training is the same. This is especially true for YPP (it has a very rigid syllabus for class presentations with the video, and the web based training).
                        >
                        > At PTC in 2002 we had a session with the gentleman from National who is in charge of Boy Scout training. He just about went ballistic when I mentioned that I had customized the Scoutmaster Specific and NLE presentations to include information specific to our District (things like names, faces, locations, service centers hours, etc.). He said the presentations are intended to be given exactly as written with little deviation. This led to a lively discussion. After he left the consensus of our group was that "there are some things too important to be left to the paid professionals"!
                        >
                        > YiS
                        >
                        > Curt
                        >


                        To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

                        Dave Loomis mailto: dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                        245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                        Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                      • Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
                        Ahhhhhhhhhhh, yes, I remember why I prefer to be a lurker. One innocent question can stir up such a lively discussion . Heck, we even get conflicting
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 30, 2004
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                          Ahhhhhhhhhhh, yes, I remember why I prefer to be a lurker. One innocent
                          question can stir up such a lively discussion <smiling>. Heck, we even get
                          conflicting "professional opinion". Some day indeed!

                          Thanks for all of the responses. I appreciate all the suggestions to use
                          alternate presentation techniques, "add pizzazz", and personalize the
                          presentation. I should have provided some background -- I have been to TDC
                          (actually the old TtT), have done patrol level and troop level
                          presentations in the old BSLWB and the new WB21C courses, and have used
                          most of these techniques at some point. When training at Philmont's Zastrow
                          Camp, we used PaperPoint for presentations. (For some reason, participants
                          at a Philmont Wood Badge course don't expect electronic presentations <big
                          grin>. But, those days are long gone - Zastrow is now a program camp for
                          treks.)

                          By it's very nature, this group represents Scouting's training elite --
                          they are experienced, motivated, devoted, and passionate about providing
                          the best training experience they can. A very good thing indeed. However,
                          there are many, many folks on training teams who never see anything but
                          "the way we always do it in our district".

                          So, I was interested in how many groups have jumped into the 21st Century
                          and now use PPT for their presentations. It's clear some have, and some
                          haven't. To paraphrase Tip O'Neil: "All Scouting and Scouter Training is
                          local", eg, most only know what's done in their district. That's one of the
                          great things about discussion groups - it lets us share experiences across
                          wide geographic boundaries. Through our exchanges, we all learn a little
                          more about how things are done in other places.

                          My point was simply this - when you buy the official BSA syllabus, it comes
                          with a CD with PPT presentations for each of the NLE & LST sessions. In
                          addition, the LST video provides standard content for that part of the
                          session. Theoretically the trainer follows the syllabus, so the only
                          variation is local info and presentation technique. I was simply curious
                          how many trainers have followed BSA's lead with the PPT presentations.

                          As we say around here - just my 0.02 worth, and YMMV.
                          Thanks.
                          -Ken
                        • Mikedunne@AOL.COM
                          There s a reason that Trainers are supposed to have taken the NEW Trainer Development Conference (only slightly changed from the old TTT). It exposes them to
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 1, 2004
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                            There's a reason that Trainers are supposed to have taken the NEW Trainer
                            Development Conference (only slightly changed from the old TTT). It exposes them
                            to lots of ways to teach... and points out that leaners learn from different
                            styles.

                            For those who think rigidly, the syllabus tells you what the content is. How
                            that content is delivered is up to the trainer. Ellie Morrison, chair of the
                            Southern Region Wood Badge Committee, likens the content to a carton of eggs.
                            Deliver the eggs. Even if you scramble them, or cook them sunny side up,
                            they still get an egg.

                            People were surprised when the committee did a sample presentation that
                            included a role play that was not in the sylllabus. It made it more interesting!
                            The syllabi are designed to give you what to say. And, probably less so with
                            NLE and some LST, there is usally enough time to add some pizzaz.

                            One other thing to think about. Most of us doing training these days are old
                            Baby Boomers or older. The younger people we are training are of a different
                            generation. They want the info, don't want to spend loads of time on it, and
                            they think and expect technical.

                            We need to be fishing with bait they like to eat, not what we like to eat, as
                            old B-P once told Scoutmasters. And, ask yourself, how many of you want to
                            sit through six hours of Power Point presentations. I've done it, no thanks. If
                            you think of your learners, you won't either.

                            There's also ways to use PPT and still have pizzazz. It is a tool. Not the
                            message.

                            Dave Loomis also said:
                            " That's a bit odd because when we were at Philmont the national Boy
                            Scout Training Chair, John Alline, told us that initially they had no
                            intent to use PowerPoint in any of these courses, but they got so many
                            PP presentations that they decided to go through them, taking the best
                            from each presentation and provide the newly mastered presentation to
                            all of us to use if and as we so desired."

                            My experience with John, with whom I have worked closely on several projects
                            and who is now with Jamboree Division and no longer with BS Training, is
                            exactly the same.

                            YiS

                            Mike Dunne
                            Vice chair for program, Istrouma Area Council (former Training Chair, the
                            best job of all)
                            Southern Region Wood Badge Committee, Area 1 co-coordinator
                            Member, National Junior Leader Training Task Force


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