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RE: [Scouter_T] Webelos Outdoor Skills & BALOO

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  • Richard Damon
    The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the Leader how
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
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      The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different.
      My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
      Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting program geared for a 9-10
      year old Webelos Scout, and ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
      BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK campout which has boys
      (and their family) from as young as 6 to 11 years old. BALLO assumes that
      the leader and many of the participant may well be first time campers, and
      teaches an easier style at a more basic level. To add the material to WOLS
      would probably make the training 2 days long. It seems the current strategy
      is to break down courses into smaller chunks to allow leaders to take the
      pieces to they need and not need to repeat them (c.f. New Leader
      Essentials). There is nothing saying that your council could not schedule
      BALLO and WOLS back to back so it could be taken together in 1 longer
      session (and those only taking BALLO leave earlier). Also I would not
      encourage a pack to have there Webelos Leaders start as their BALLO trained
      leader (although they make a good back up). In most packs the Webelos leader
      will be moving on in the next year or so. It would be much better to get a
      Tiger or Wolf parent to step up and get the training, as they will be around
      for longer.

      Richard Damon
      --
      rbrdamon@... (Home)
      rdamon@... (Work)
      Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
      Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
      District Member at Large, Sons of Liberty District
      Boston Minuteman Council
      I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
    • Fred Goodwin, CMA
      I don t have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another course? Fred
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
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        I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
        specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
        course?

        Fred Goodwin
        Alamo Area Council

        > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:28:20 -0000
        > From: "Lady T" <eagleladyt@...>
        >
        > Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can't you
        > adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that
        > the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without having
        > had to sit through another full day of training?
      • Dan Hammond, Sr.
        Richard Damon hit the nail on the head: The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 10, 2003
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          "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...> hit the
          nail on the head:

          "The big issue is that the skills being taught are
          actually quite different. My understanding is that
          Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
          Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting
          program geared for a 9-10 year old Webelos Scout, and
          ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
          BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK
          campout which has boys (and their family) from as
          young as 6 to 11 years old.

          BALOO assumes that the leader and many of the
          participant may well be first time campers, and
          teaches an easier style at a more basic level."

          The two courses are aimed at providing diffewrent
          outcomes. WLOT is designed to help Webelos Den
          Leaders put on an effective outdoor program for
          Webelos Scouts while reminding them that there are
          certain age specific things that should be left to Boy
          Scouts (Woods tools, as an example, are different for
          Webelos Scout and Boy Scouts).

          BALOO is designed to help a new cub scout leader plan
          and execute an age approriate and safe pack camping
          experience.

          There is a BIG difference between the desired
          outcomes. Thus different courses with different syllabi.

          =====
          Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA
          Leavenworth, KS, Army Major, NRA Life Member, Overtrained Scout Leader, Kaw District Membership Chairman, CM P3001, SA T366
          |<--W-W-W--<<<| I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)

          Cheerful Service; just because it's the right thing to do

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        • Keith Tilley
          Lady T asked: Why can t you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 10, 2003
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            Lady T asked: "Why can't you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to
            cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO
            certified without having had to sit through another full day of
            training?"

            The short answer is that BALOO is a certification course, so it has to
            be taught exactly as written. Also, changing the focus of WLOT to
            accommodate non-Webelos leaders would be cheating the Webelos Leaders in
            attendance.

            The longer answer, at the risk of duplicating what you've already heard,
            is that they're two different courses that happen to have some topics
            that are similar in name, but different in learning objectives. BSA
            actually has several courses that cover camping and outdoor skills to
            some extent, but they all have different target audiences and different
            desired outcomes. They are not interchangeable.

            (Side note to Major Hammond - it's good to see someone else use the word
            "syllabi"!)

            (Side note to my neighbor Donna - running WLOT and SMF together was a
            common practice. The new OLSWDL course is designed to run equally well
            with the new IOLS course.)

            Keith Tilley
            Hudson Valley Council, NY
          • Lloyd Solis
            ... That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus. Lloyd Pardon my lateness as I m a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 13, 2003
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              Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:

              >I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
              >specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
              >course?
              >
              >Fred Goodwin
              >Alamo Area Council
              >
              >
              That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus.
              Lloyd

              Pardon my 'lateness' as I'm a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
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