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RE: [Scouter_T] Webelos Outdoor Skills & BALOO

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  • Richard Damon
    The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the Leader how
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 9 6:59 AM
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      The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different.
      My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
      Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting program geared for a 9-10
      year old Webelos Scout, and ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
      BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK campout which has boys
      (and their family) from as young as 6 to 11 years old. BALLO assumes that
      the leader and many of the participant may well be first time campers, and
      teaches an easier style at a more basic level. To add the material to WOLS
      would probably make the training 2 days long. It seems the current strategy
      is to break down courses into smaller chunks to allow leaders to take the
      pieces to they need and not need to repeat them (c.f. New Leader
      Essentials). There is nothing saying that your council could not schedule
      BALLO and WOLS back to back so it could be taken together in 1 longer
      session (and those only taking BALLO leave earlier). Also I would not
      encourage a pack to have there Webelos Leaders start as their BALLO trained
      leader (although they make a good back up). In most packs the Webelos leader
      will be moving on in the next year or so. It would be much better to get a
      Tiger or Wolf parent to step up and get the training, as they will be around
      for longer.

      Richard Damon
      --
      rbrdamon@... (Home)
      rdamon@... (Work)
      Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
      Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
      District Member at Large, Sons of Liberty District
      Boston Minuteman Council
      I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
      Was at a Council Training Committee meeting last night and asked this question. The reply was negative. Pete Mullaney
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 9 7:13 AM
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        Was at a Council Training Committee meeting last night
        and asked this question. The reply was negative.

        Pete Mullaney

        > ----------
        > From: Lady T
        >
        > Also, has the new IOWLS syllabus been released yet?
        >
        >
      • Fred Goodwin, CMA
        I don t have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another course? Fred
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 9 4:10 PM
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          I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
          specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
          course?

          Fred Goodwin
          Alamo Area Council

          > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:28:20 -0000
          > From: "Lady T" <eagleladyt@...>
          >
          > Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can't you
          > adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that
          > the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without having
          > had to sit through another full day of training?
        • Dan Hammond, Sr.
          Richard Damon hit the nail on the head: The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 10 8:58 AM
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            "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...> hit the
            nail on the head:

            "The big issue is that the skills being taught are
            actually quite different. My understanding is that
            Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
            Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting
            program geared for a 9-10 year old Webelos Scout, and
            ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
            BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK
            campout which has boys (and their family) from as
            young as 6 to 11 years old.

            BALOO assumes that the leader and many of the
            participant may well be first time campers, and
            teaches an easier style at a more basic level."

            The two courses are aimed at providing diffewrent
            outcomes. WLOT is designed to help Webelos Den
            Leaders put on an effective outdoor program for
            Webelos Scouts while reminding them that there are
            certain age specific things that should be left to Boy
            Scouts (Woods tools, as an example, are different for
            Webelos Scout and Boy Scouts).

            BALOO is designed to help a new cub scout leader plan
            and execute an age approriate and safe pack camping
            experience.

            There is a BIG difference between the desired
            outcomes. Thus different courses with different syllabi.

            =====
            Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA
            Leavenworth, KS, Army Major, NRA Life Member, Overtrained Scout Leader, Kaw District Membership Chairman, CM P3001, SA T366
            |<--W-W-W--<<<| I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)

            Cheerful Service; just because it's the right thing to do

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          • Keith Tilley
            Lady T asked: Why can t you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 10 11:39 AM
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              Lady T asked: "Why can't you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to
              cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO
              certified without having had to sit through another full day of
              training?"

              The short answer is that BALOO is a certification course, so it has to
              be taught exactly as written. Also, changing the focus of WLOT to
              accommodate non-Webelos leaders would be cheating the Webelos Leaders in
              attendance.

              The longer answer, at the risk of duplicating what you've already heard,
              is that they're two different courses that happen to have some topics
              that are similar in name, but different in learning objectives. BSA
              actually has several courses that cover camping and outdoor skills to
              some extent, but they all have different target audiences and different
              desired outcomes. They are not interchangeable.

              (Side note to Major Hammond - it's good to see someone else use the word
              "syllabi"!)

              (Side note to my neighbor Donna - running WLOT and SMF together was a
              common practice. The new OLSWDL course is designed to run equally well
              with the new IOLS course.)

              Keith Tilley
              Hudson Valley Council, NY
            • Lloyd Solis
              ... That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus. Lloyd Pardon my lateness as I m a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 13 3:19 PM
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                Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:

                >I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
                >specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
                >course?
                >
                >Fred Goodwin
                >Alamo Area Council
                >
                >
                That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus.
                Lloyd

                Pardon my 'lateness' as I'm a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
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