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Webelos Outdoor Skills & BALOO

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  • Lady T
    Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can t you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
      Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can't you
      adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that
      the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without having
      had to sit through another full day of training?

      Well, I'm sure that's a hot topic for a lot of you. While I don't
      believe in adjusting the syllabus at this time, I would like to know
      if others of you have done so. I'm curious.

      Also, has the new IOWLS syllabus been released yet?

      Thanks for your comments.

      YIS,


      T
    • David D. Vaughan
      In our Council we have combined OWL and Basic Leader Out Door Leader Training into one training with special breakout sessions for the OWL material. This has
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
        In our Council we have combined OWL and Basic Leader Out Door Leader Training into one training with special breakout sessions for the OWL material. This has been a successful combination course for 2 years. BALOO is as designed a stand alone course and really to basic for Boy Scout Leaders in my opinion.

        David Vaughan
        Council Training Chair
        Southern Sierra Council
        W4-57-86
        DVAUGHAN@...
        Still a Buffalo....

        There's only one thing wrong with Boy Scouts...
        there aren't enough of 'em.
        -Will Rogers

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Lady T
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 6:28 AM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Webelos Outdoor Skills & BALOO


        Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can't you
        adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that
        the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without having
        had to sit through another full day of training?

        Well, I'm sure that's a hot topic for a lot of you. While I don't
        believe in adjusting the syllabus at this time, I would like to know
        if others of you have done so. I'm curious.

        Also, has the new IOWLS syllabus been released yet?

        Thanks for your comments.

        YIS,


        T


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      • Richard Damon
        The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the Leader how
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
          The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different.
          My understanding is that Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
          Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting program geared for a 9-10
          year old Webelos Scout, and ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
          BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK campout which has boys
          (and their family) from as young as 6 to 11 years old. BALLO assumes that
          the leader and many of the participant may well be first time campers, and
          teaches an easier style at a more basic level. To add the material to WOLS
          would probably make the training 2 days long. It seems the current strategy
          is to break down courses into smaller chunks to allow leaders to take the
          pieces to they need and not need to repeat them (c.f. New Leader
          Essentials). There is nothing saying that your council could not schedule
          BALLO and WOLS back to back so it could be taken together in 1 longer
          session (and those only taking BALLO leave earlier). Also I would not
          encourage a pack to have there Webelos Leaders start as their BALLO trained
          leader (although they make a good back up). In most packs the Webelos leader
          will be moving on in the next year or so. It would be much better to get a
          Tiger or Wolf parent to step up and get the training, as they will be around
          for longer.

          Richard Damon
          --
          rbrdamon@... (Home)
          rdamon@... (Work)
          Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
          Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
          District Member at Large, Sons of Liberty District
          Boston Minuteman Council
          I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
          Was at a Council Training Committee meeting last night and asked this question. The reply was negative. Pete Mullaney
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
            Was at a Council Training Committee meeting last night
            and asked this question. The reply was negative.

            Pete Mullaney

            > ----------
            > From: Lady T
            >
            > Also, has the new IOWLS syllabus been released yet?
            >
            >
          • Fred Goodwin, CMA
            I don t have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another course? Fred
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 9, 2003
              I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
              specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
              course?

              Fred Goodwin
              Alamo Area Council

              > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:28:20 -0000
              > From: "Lady T" <eagleladyt@...>
              >
              > Okay, the burning question from my group this fall: Why can't you
              > adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that
              > the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without having
              > had to sit through another full day of training?
            • Dan Hammond, Sr.
              Richard Damon hit the nail on the head: The big issue is that the skills being taught are actually quite different. My
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 10, 2003
                "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...> hit the
                nail on the head:

                "The big issue is that the skills being taught are
                actually quite different. My understanding is that
                Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills is teaching the
                Leader how to deliver a challenging and exciting
                program geared for a 9-10 year old Webelos Scout, and
                ways to teach the Outdoor Group activity badges.
                BALLO deals with administering a safe and fun PACK
                campout which has boys (and their family) from as
                young as 6 to 11 years old.

                BALOO assumes that the leader and many of the
                participant may well be first time campers, and
                teaches an easier style at a more basic level."

                The two courses are aimed at providing diffewrent
                outcomes. WLOT is designed to help Webelos Den
                Leaders put on an effective outdoor program for
                Webelos Scouts while reminding them that there are
                certain age specific things that should be left to Boy
                Scouts (Woods tools, as an example, are different for
                Webelos Scout and Boy Scouts).

                BALOO is designed to help a new cub scout leader plan
                and execute an age approriate and safe pack camping
                experience.

                There is a BIG difference between the desired
                outcomes. Thus different courses with different syllabi.

                =====
                Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA
                Leavenworth, KS, Army Major, NRA Life Member, Overtrained Scout Leader, Kaw District Membership Chairman, CM P3001, SA T366
                |<--W-W-W--<<<| I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)

                Cheerful Service; just because it's the right thing to do

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              • Keith Tilley
                Lady T asked: Why can t you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO certified without
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 10, 2003
                  Lady T asked: "Why can't you adjust the Webelos Outdoor syllabus to
                  cover the BALOO topics so that the person who has WOLS can also be BALOO
                  certified without having had to sit through another full day of
                  training?"

                  The short answer is that BALOO is a certification course, so it has to
                  be taught exactly as written. Also, changing the focus of WLOT to
                  accommodate non-Webelos leaders would be cheating the Webelos Leaders in
                  attendance.

                  The longer answer, at the risk of duplicating what you've already heard,
                  is that they're two different courses that happen to have some topics
                  that are similar in name, but different in learning objectives. BSA
                  actually has several courses that cover camping and outdoor skills to
                  some extent, but they all have different target audiences and different
                  desired outcomes. They are not interchangeable.

                  (Side note to Major Hammond - it's good to see someone else use the word
                  "syllabi"!)

                  (Side note to my neighbor Donna - running WLOT and SMF together was a
                  common practice. The new OLSWDL course is designed to run equally well
                  with the new IOLS course.)

                  Keith Tilley
                  Hudson Valley Council, NY
                • Lloyd Solis
                  ... That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus. Lloyd Pardon my lateness as I m a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 13, 2003
                    Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:

                    >I don't have my copy of BALOO in front of me, but I thought there was a
                    >specific prohibition printed therein against combining it with another
                    >course?
                    >
                    >Fred Goodwin
                    >Alamo Area Council
                    >
                    >
                    That is my understanding also. It is printed in the syllabus.
                    Lloyd

                    Pardon my 'lateness' as I'm a few days behind in my scout mail lists.
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