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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training

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  • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
    Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced campers, experienced campers
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
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      Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is
      designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced
      campers, experienced campers with their eyes and ears opened
      will learn things that they never took into consideration. In
      all the BALOO's I've served on staff there are always comments from
      'experienced' campers that they learned a lot more than they thought
      they would. I usually pick up something from the participants each
      time through.

      Pete Mullaney

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Keith Tilley [mailto:redcoat@...]
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


      Hank Voegtle asked about combining BALOO with Webelos Leader Outdoor
      Training.

      1. They serve different audiences. BALOO is designed for inexperienced
      campers who may or may not be Den Leaders, while WLOT is designed for
      Webelos Den Leaders.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lloyd Solis
      ... From everything I ve learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course. It is NOT to be mixed or incorporated into any other sessions. It does not
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
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        Hank Voegtle wrote:

        >Tonight was the district program kick-off for 2003-4. In looking over the
        >training schedule, I did not see BALOO as a course. As the course director
        >for the district's first course in 2001, I was a little concerned about
        >this. When I asked about it, I was told that it would be integrated into
        >the Outdoor Webelos Course, a program that includes two nights of camping.
        >Showing up for one day is not an option. The one-day course "may" be
        >offered in the spring.
        >
        >Having been the course director for our district's first course, I was more
        >than shocked by the idea that BALOO, an introductory course that
        >emphasizes "soft" camping will offered in this format. I'm tempted to steer
        >my pack leaders to districts were there is a one day course or offering it
        >in my pack as a one day course. Does anyone have thoughts on the matter?
        >Does anyone think I ought to contact the Council Executive or Council
        >Training Chair? Am I being too much of a curmudgeon about this? Am I wrong
        >to think that BALOO is one course that really ought to be taught according
        >to the syllabus?
        >
        >Thanks in advance.
        >
        >
        >Yours in Scouting,
        >
        >Hank Voegtle--Eagle Scout-Class of '68
        >I used to be a Fox (SR-Y2K-X2)
        >Cubmaster, Pack 890, Dallas, Texas
        >
        >
        >
        From everything I've learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course.
        It is NOT to be 'mixed' or incorporated into any other sessions. It
        does not include an overnight experience.

        Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
        experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
        that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
        There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over. The
        problem was that the trainers were so exhausted after about 30 hours
        since a large number of the participants (female, no less) stayed up
        partying till after 3AM.

        You might want to ask a few more questions to see what's on their
        agenda. Perhaps their BALOO will be sandwiched between other sessions.

        Lloyd
      • John D. Halter
        Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5, though after
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
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          Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last
          two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5,
          though after seeing how much fun the others were having, several have wanted
          to stay. The leaders in our district have appreciated the flexibility in
          the way we have offered the course. We don't limit our recruitment to just
          Webelos leaders, we encourage Wolf & Bear leaders & welcome parents and
          leaders from all ranks.
          Regarding the original post, I could not imagine requiring BALOO
          participants to stay overnight. Like others have said, I would talk with
          the person organizing the event and find out exactly what they have planned.

          Thank you,

          John Halter
          Cubmaster
          Pack 230 Apopka Florida
          www.pack230.com
          Assistant Scoutmaster
          Troop 936 Longwood Florida
          Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
          ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Lloyd Solis" <paperclp@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 15:44
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BALOO Training


          >
          > Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
          > experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
          > that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
          > There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over.
        • Keith Tilley
          The Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders syllabus should be released in the next several weeks. As you ve all noticed, it was significantly
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
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            The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
            released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
            significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
            made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
            was supposed to be released.

            In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
            Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
            library.

            Keith Tilley
            Cub Scout Training Chairman
            Hudson Valley Council, NY
          • Lloyd Solis
            ... I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . It s going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is more than
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
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              Keith Tilley wrote:

              >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
              >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
              >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
              >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
              >was supposed to be released.
              >
              >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
              >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
              >library.
              >
              >Keith Tilley
              >Cub Scout Training Chairman
              >Hudson Valley Council, NY
              >
              >Hmmm,
              >
              I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
              It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
              more than character connection additions.

              Thanks,

              Lloyd

              >
              >
            • Deborah A. Krieger
              With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3 must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on the Tan shirt we may
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
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                With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3
                must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on
                the Tan shirt we may see the Blue shirt go away...The new Webelos hat of
                course is not designed for the activity badges to be pinned to it as was
                the previous hat...

                Deb :)


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lloyd Solis [mailto:paperclp@...]
                Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:20 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training



                Keith Tilley wrote:

                >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos
                program
                >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time
                it
                >was supposed to be released.
                >
                >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the
                Webelos
                >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                >library.
                >
                >Keith Tilley
                >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                >
                >Hmmm,
                >
                I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
                It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
                more than character connection additions.

                Thanks,

                Lloyd

                >
                >





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              • Jim
                According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders has been pushed back to mid-to-late November.
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
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                  According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of
                  "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders" has been pushed back to
                  mid-to-late November. Just thought you'd like to know.
                  YiS,
                  Jim Ball
                  Council Training Chairman
                  Central Florida Council

                  Keith Tilley wrote:

                  >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                  >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                  >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                  >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                  >was supposed to be released.
                  >
                  >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                  >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                  >library.
                  >
                  >Keith Tilley
                  >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                  >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Richard Damon
                  First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out) which may change the requirements (part of the character connection revision). But
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
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                    First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out)
                    which may change the requirements (part of the character connection
                    revision). But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                    restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed. The
                    oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may be
                    worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                    isn't already).

                    The guide does not have the new cap, but I agree that without the protection
                    flap it should not be used for the pins (I never recommended it anyway as
                    the boys lose the caps too easily).

                    Richard Damon
                    --
                    rbrdamon@... (Home)
                    rdamon@... (Work)
                    Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
                    Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
                    Boston Minuteman Council
                    I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
                  • Keith Tilley
                    Lloyd Solis wrote: I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
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                      Lloyd Solis wrote: "I was under the impression that any changes in webelos
                      was 'minor' ."

                      There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The requirements for
                      the Webelos rank, Arrow of Light, and almost every activity badge have been
                      modified, and Character Connections is only one reason. The new "Outdoor
                      Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" course also had to accommodate
                      changes in camping policy, the Guide to Safe Scouting, and age-appropriate
                      "who can do what" policies that have occurred last year.

                      Keith Tilley
                      Hudson Valley Council, NY
                    • John D. Halter
                      In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt and the diamond for the blue or tan shirt . It doesn t mention it in the text, but
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
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                        In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt
                        and the diamond for the "blue or tan shirt". It doesn't mention it in the
                        text, but the picture would lead me to believe that the oval badge is only
                        intended for the tan shirt.

                        Thank you,

                        John Halter
                        Cubmaster
                        Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                        www.pack230.com
                        Assistant Scoutmaster
                        Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                        Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
                        ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442

                        ----- Original Message -----

                        Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 00:14
                        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


                        >But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                        > restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed.
                        The
                        > oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may
                        be
                        > worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                        > isn't already).
                        >
                      • Kris Swank
                        My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that where it diverges
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 9, 2004
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                          My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the
                          learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that
                          where it diverges we make a big point of the differences. We also do
                          quite a bit on the Webelos Outdoor group of Badges. The point of
                          combining was that many of the Dens do all their camping requirements
                          with a BS Troop and it would be helpful for the SM/ASM to have a
                          refresher course of Webelos age level activities. From experience I know
                          how a camp out with a Troop turned off a number of Webelos to the extent
                          they quit the next Den Meeting AND My husband...long long ago....had a
                          bad experience on a Webelos/Troop camp and he never went tinto a Troop
                          and held a grudge against Scouting until about 2000 when I got him to
                          training and Wood Badge.
                          YIS,
                          KRis Swank
                          Okee Tuklo District Training Chair
                          ETAC Webmaster
                          East Texas Area Council
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