Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: BALOO Training

Expand Messages
  • David Gross
    ... Does your area have the oft-reported-but-never-seen-by-me new WLOT syllabus? The reason I ask is that the old one did not have two nights of camping (it
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
      > From: Hank Voegtle <pack890cm@...>
      > Subject: BALOO Training
      >
      > [BALOO] ... integrated into the Outdoor Webelos
      > Course, a program that includes two nights of
      > camping. Showing up for one day is not an option.

      Does your area have the
      oft-reported-but-never-seen-by-me new WLOT syllabus?
      The reason I ask is that the old one did not have two
      nights of camping (it had two formats, one night or
      none). Or did you mean that they are doing BALOO,
      WLOT, and IOLS (introduction to outdoor leadership
      skills) as a combined course. ILOS is typically done
      with two nights.

      I've run outdoor training weekends with all of these
      in parallel, thus making good use of resources like
      staff, materials, events, but we always treated them
      as separate courses with separate objectives.

      > Does anyone have thoughts on the matter?

      Yes. I think that they are dead wrong to do this.
      I've been the BALOO course instructor 3 times, and you
      are completely correct -- the idea is that the
      participant may have NO outdoor experience. A prime
      course objective is to get them set up to acquire the
      camping equipment, so having the camp is counter
      productive.

      > Does anyone think I ought to contact the Council
      > Executive or Council Training Chair?

      Hard to say, as I don't know your council. I'd be
      comfortable talking to my DE & district training
      chair, and then the council folks as needed. But the
      only response I'd expect here is: "gosh, can you
      direct the course" :-)

      > Am I being too much of a curmudgeon about this?

      No. I don't think you should be angry or grumpy about
      it. I suspect that these folks are trying to
      economize on resources (like staff), and don't realize
      how they are violating the point of the course. I
      think you can & should help them understand.

      > Am I wrong to think that BALOO is one course that
      > really ought to be taught according to the syllabus?

      Yes, you are wrong. ALL of the courses should be
      taught by the syllabus (see, I am the curmudeon :-).

      YiS,

      David


      =====
      David Gross
      SA-TG SR-556

      SM T-142, UC
      AOL, Eagle/3, OA/B, SB
      "I used to be a fox, .."

      Registered in, but not speaking for, the Greater Alabama Council

      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
      http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
      Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced campers, experienced campers
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
        Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is
        designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced
        campers, experienced campers with their eyes and ears opened
        will learn things that they never took into consideration. In
        all the BALOO's I've served on staff there are always comments from
        'experienced' campers that they learned a lot more than they thought
        they would. I usually pick up something from the participants each
        time through.

        Pete Mullaney

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Keith Tilley [mailto:redcoat@...]
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


        Hank Voegtle asked about combining BALOO with Webelos Leader Outdoor
        Training.

        1. They serve different audiences. BALOO is designed for inexperienced
        campers who may or may not be Den Leaders, while WLOT is designed for
        Webelos Den Leaders.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lloyd Solis
        ... From everything I ve learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course. It is NOT to be mixed or incorporated into any other sessions. It does not
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
          Hank Voegtle wrote:

          >Tonight was the district program kick-off for 2003-4. In looking over the
          >training schedule, I did not see BALOO as a course. As the course director
          >for the district's first course in 2001, I was a little concerned about
          >this. When I asked about it, I was told that it would be integrated into
          >the Outdoor Webelos Course, a program that includes two nights of camping.
          >Showing up for one day is not an option. The one-day course "may" be
          >offered in the spring.
          >
          >Having been the course director for our district's first course, I was more
          >than shocked by the idea that BALOO, an introductory course that
          >emphasizes "soft" camping will offered in this format. I'm tempted to steer
          >my pack leaders to districts were there is a one day course or offering it
          >in my pack as a one day course. Does anyone have thoughts on the matter?
          >Does anyone think I ought to contact the Council Executive or Council
          >Training Chair? Am I being too much of a curmudgeon about this? Am I wrong
          >to think that BALOO is one course that really ought to be taught according
          >to the syllabus?
          >
          >Thanks in advance.
          >
          >
          >Yours in Scouting,
          >
          >Hank Voegtle--Eagle Scout-Class of '68
          >I used to be a Fox (SR-Y2K-X2)
          >Cubmaster, Pack 890, Dallas, Texas
          >
          >
          >
          From everything I've learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course.
          It is NOT to be 'mixed' or incorporated into any other sessions. It
          does not include an overnight experience.

          Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
          experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
          that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
          There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over. The
          problem was that the trainers were so exhausted after about 30 hours
          since a large number of the participants (female, no less) stayed up
          partying till after 3AM.

          You might want to ask a few more questions to see what's on their
          agenda. Perhaps their BALOO will be sandwiched between other sessions.

          Lloyd
        • John D. Halter
          Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5, though after
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
            Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last
            two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5,
            though after seeing how much fun the others were having, several have wanted
            to stay. The leaders in our district have appreciated the flexibility in
            the way we have offered the course. We don't limit our recruitment to just
            Webelos leaders, we encourage Wolf & Bear leaders & welcome parents and
            leaders from all ranks.
            Regarding the original post, I could not imagine requiring BALOO
            participants to stay overnight. Like others have said, I would talk with
            the person organizing the event and find out exactly what they have planned.

            Thank you,

            John Halter
            Cubmaster
            Pack 230 Apopka Florida
            www.pack230.com
            Assistant Scoutmaster
            Troop 936 Longwood Florida
            Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
            ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lloyd Solis" <paperclp@...>
            To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 15:44
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BALOO Training


            >
            > Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
            > experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
            > that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
            > There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over.
          • Keith Tilley
            The Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders syllabus should be released in the next several weeks. As you ve all noticed, it was significantly
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
              The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
              released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
              significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
              made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
              was supposed to be released.

              In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
              Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
              library.

              Keith Tilley
              Cub Scout Training Chairman
              Hudson Valley Council, NY
            • Lloyd Solis
              ... I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . It s going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is more than
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                Keith Tilley wrote:

                >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                >was supposed to be released.
                >
                >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                >library.
                >
                >Keith Tilley
                >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                >
                >Hmmm,
                >
                I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
                It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
                more than character connection additions.

                Thanks,

                Lloyd

                >
                >
              • Deborah A. Krieger
                With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3 must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on the Tan shirt we may
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                  With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3
                  must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on
                  the Tan shirt we may see the Blue shirt go away...The new Webelos hat of
                  course is not designed for the activity badges to be pinned to it as was
                  the previous hat...

                  Deb :)


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lloyd Solis [mailto:paperclp@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:20 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training



                  Keith Tilley wrote:

                  >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                  >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                  >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos
                  program
                  >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time
                  it
                  >was supposed to be released.
                  >
                  >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the
                  Webelos
                  >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                  >library.
                  >
                  >Keith Tilley
                  >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                  >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                  >
                  >Hmmm,
                  >
                  I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
                  It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
                  more than character connection additions.

                  Thanks,

                  Lloyd

                  >
                  >





                  For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                  Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Jim
                  According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders has been pushed back to mid-to-late November.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                    According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of
                    "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders" has been pushed back to
                    mid-to-late November. Just thought you'd like to know.
                    YiS,
                    Jim Ball
                    Council Training Chairman
                    Central Florida Council

                    Keith Tilley wrote:

                    >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                    >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                    >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                    >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                    >was supposed to be released.
                    >
                    >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                    >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                    >library.
                    >
                    >Keith Tilley
                    >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                    >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Richard Damon
                    First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out) which may change the requirements (part of the character connection revision). But
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                      First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out)
                      which may change the requirements (part of the character connection
                      revision). But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                      restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed. The
                      oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may be
                      worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                      isn't already).

                      The guide does not have the new cap, but I agree that without the protection
                      flap it should not be used for the pins (I never recommended it anyway as
                      the boys lose the caps too easily).

                      Richard Damon
                      --
                      rbrdamon@... (Home)
                      rdamon@... (Work)
                      Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
                      Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
                      Boston Minuteman Council
                      I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
                    • Keith Tilley
                      Lloyd Solis wrote: I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
                        Lloyd Solis wrote: "I was under the impression that any changes in webelos
                        was 'minor' ."

                        There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The requirements for
                        the Webelos rank, Arrow of Light, and almost every activity badge have been
                        modified, and Character Connections is only one reason. The new "Outdoor
                        Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" course also had to accommodate
                        changes in camping policy, the Guide to Safe Scouting, and age-appropriate
                        "who can do what" policies that have occurred last year.

                        Keith Tilley
                        Hudson Valley Council, NY
                      • John D. Halter
                        In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt and the diamond for the blue or tan shirt . It doesn t mention it in the text, but
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
                          In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt
                          and the diamond for the "blue or tan shirt". It doesn't mention it in the
                          text, but the picture would lead me to believe that the oval badge is only
                          intended for the tan shirt.

                          Thank you,

                          John Halter
                          Cubmaster
                          Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                          www.pack230.com
                          Assistant Scoutmaster
                          Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                          Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
                          ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 00:14
                          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


                          >But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                          > restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed.
                          The
                          > oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may
                          be
                          > worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                          > isn't already).
                          >
                        • Kris Swank
                          My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that where it diverges
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 9, 2004
                            My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the
                            learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that
                            where it diverges we make a big point of the differences. We also do
                            quite a bit on the Webelos Outdoor group of Badges. The point of
                            combining was that many of the Dens do all their camping requirements
                            with a BS Troop and it would be helpful for the SM/ASM to have a
                            refresher course of Webelos age level activities. From experience I know
                            how a camp out with a Troop turned off a number of Webelos to the extent
                            they quit the next Den Meeting AND My husband...long long ago....had a
                            bad experience on a Webelos/Troop camp and he never went tinto a Troop
                            and held a grudge against Scouting until about 2000 when I got him to
                            training and Wood Badge.
                            YIS,
                            KRis Swank
                            Okee Tuklo District Training Chair
                            ETAC Webmaster
                            East Texas Area Council
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.