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Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training

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  • Brant Lippincott
    Hank & Others, Greetings all... We teach BALOO basically according to the syllabus. We have found that we can consolidate a little bit and run the course from
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
      Hank & Others,

      Greetings all...

      We teach BALOO basically according to the syllabus.
      We have found that we can consolidate a little bit and
      run the course from about 8 to 2 or 2:30. We
      integrate some of the teaching points with the doing,
      so it flows really well and we get done a bit quicker.

      I have yet to see the sylabus for "Outdoor Leader
      Skills for Webelos Den Leaders", so if anyone has a
      soft copy, I would love to see it. I've encountered
      resistance from our DE on teaching the OLD course. He
      believes that it has been pulled and replaced with
      IOLS. I have not been successful in getting the
      Webelos leaders to go to that course (maybe 10 in the
      last two years).

      For the Boys,
      Brant Lippincott
      Cub Training Chair
      Great Plains District
      Circle 10 Council
      Plano, TX
    • Lady T
      Thank you, I too, am looking for the new syllabus for Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders. Has it been released yet? Anyone have the stock number
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
        Thank you, I too, am looking for the new syllabus for Outdoor Leader
        Skills for Webelos Den Leaders. Has it been released yet? Anyone
        have the stock number for ordering it?


        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Brant Lippincott <brant@l...> wrote:
        > Hank & Others,
        >
        > Greetings all...
        >
        > We teach BALOO basically according to the syllabus.
        > We have found that we can consolidate a little bit and
        > run the course from about 8 to 2 or 2:30. We
        > integrate some of the teaching points with the doing,
        > so it flows really well and we get done a bit quicker.
        >
        > I have yet to see the sylabus for "Outdoor Leader
        > Skills for Webelos Den Leaders", so if anyone has a
        > soft copy, I would love to see it. I've encountered
        > resistance from our DE on teaching the OLD course. He
        > believes that it has been pulled and replaced with
        > IOLS. I have not been successful in getting the
        > Webelos leaders to go to that course (maybe 10 in the
        > last two years).
        >
        > For the Boys,
        > Brant Lippincott
        > Cub Training Chair
        > Great Plains District
        > Circle 10 Council
        > Plano, TX
      • David Gross
        ... Does your area have the oft-reported-but-never-seen-by-me new WLOT syllabus? The reason I ask is that the old one did not have two nights of camping (it
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
          > From: Hank Voegtle <pack890cm@...>
          > Subject: BALOO Training
          >
          > [BALOO] ... integrated into the Outdoor Webelos
          > Course, a program that includes two nights of
          > camping. Showing up for one day is not an option.

          Does your area have the
          oft-reported-but-never-seen-by-me new WLOT syllabus?
          The reason I ask is that the old one did not have two
          nights of camping (it had two formats, one night or
          none). Or did you mean that they are doing BALOO,
          WLOT, and IOLS (introduction to outdoor leadership
          skills) as a combined course. ILOS is typically done
          with two nights.

          I've run outdoor training weekends with all of these
          in parallel, thus making good use of resources like
          staff, materials, events, but we always treated them
          as separate courses with separate objectives.

          > Does anyone have thoughts on the matter?

          Yes. I think that they are dead wrong to do this.
          I've been the BALOO course instructor 3 times, and you
          are completely correct -- the idea is that the
          participant may have NO outdoor experience. A prime
          course objective is to get them set up to acquire the
          camping equipment, so having the camp is counter
          productive.

          > Does anyone think I ought to contact the Council
          > Executive or Council Training Chair?

          Hard to say, as I don't know your council. I'd be
          comfortable talking to my DE & district training
          chair, and then the council folks as needed. But the
          only response I'd expect here is: "gosh, can you
          direct the course" :-)

          > Am I being too much of a curmudgeon about this?

          No. I don't think you should be angry or grumpy about
          it. I suspect that these folks are trying to
          economize on resources (like staff), and don't realize
          how they are violating the point of the course. I
          think you can & should help them understand.

          > Am I wrong to think that BALOO is one course that
          > really ought to be taught according to the syllabus?

          Yes, you are wrong. ALL of the courses should be
          taught by the syllabus (see, I am the curmudeon :-).

          YiS,

          David


          =====
          David Gross
          SA-TG SR-556

          SM T-142, UC
          AOL, Eagle/3, OA/B, SB
          "I used to be a fox, .."

          Registered in, but not speaking for, the Greater Alabama Council

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        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
          Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced campers, experienced campers
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
            Comment on the point I left below - I would say that BALOO is
            designed for basics and planning. It is not just for inexperienced
            campers, experienced campers with their eyes and ears opened
            will learn things that they never took into consideration. In
            all the BALOO's I've served on staff there are always comments from
            'experienced' campers that they learned a lot more than they thought
            they would. I usually pick up something from the participants each
            time through.

            Pete Mullaney

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Keith Tilley [mailto:redcoat@...]
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


            Hank Voegtle asked about combining BALOO with Webelos Leader Outdoor
            Training.

            1. They serve different audiences. BALOO is designed for inexperienced
            campers who may or may not be Den Leaders, while WLOT is designed for
            Webelos Den Leaders.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lloyd Solis
            ... From everything I ve learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course. It is NOT to be mixed or incorporated into any other sessions. It does not
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
              Hank Voegtle wrote:

              >Tonight was the district program kick-off for 2003-4. In looking over the
              >training schedule, I did not see BALOO as a course. As the course director
              >for the district's first course in 2001, I was a little concerned about
              >this. When I asked about it, I was told that it would be integrated into
              >the Outdoor Webelos Course, a program that includes two nights of camping.
              >Showing up for one day is not an option. The one-day course "may" be
              >offered in the spring.
              >
              >Having been the course director for our district's first course, I was more
              >than shocked by the idea that BALOO, an introductory course that
              >emphasizes "soft" camping will offered in this format. I'm tempted to steer
              >my pack leaders to districts were there is a one day course or offering it
              >in my pack as a one day course. Does anyone have thoughts on the matter?
              >Does anyone think I ought to contact the Council Executive or Council
              >Training Chair? Am I being too much of a curmudgeon about this? Am I wrong
              >to think that BALOO is one course that really ought to be taught according
              >to the syllabus?
              >
              >Thanks in advance.
              >
              >
              >Yours in Scouting,
              >
              >Hank Voegtle--Eagle Scout-Class of '68
              >I used to be a Fox (SR-Y2K-X2)
              >Cubmaster, Pack 890, Dallas, Texas
              >
              >
              >
              From everything I've learned and heard, BALOO is a stand-alone course.
              It is NOT to be 'mixed' or incorporated into any other sessions. It
              does not include an overnight experience.

              Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
              experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
              that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
              There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over. The
              problem was that the trainers were so exhausted after about 30 hours
              since a large number of the participants (female, no less) stayed up
              partying till after 3AM.

              You might want to ask a few more questions to see what's on their
              agenda. Perhaps their BALOO will be sandwiched between other sessions.

              Lloyd
            • John D. Halter
              Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5, though after
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 6, 2003
                Our district has conducted the BALOO/WOLT training this way for the last
                two years. Like yours, the BALOO participants were only there from 8-5,
                though after seeing how much fun the others were having, several have wanted
                to stay. The leaders in our district have appreciated the flexibility in
                the way we have offered the course. We don't limit our recruitment to just
                Webelos leaders, we encourage Wolf & Bear leaders & welcome parents and
                leaders from all ranks.
                Regarding the original post, I could not imagine requiring BALOO
                participants to stay overnight. Like others have said, I would talk with
                the person organizing the event and find out exactly what they have planned.

                Thank you,

                John Halter
                Cubmaster
                Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                www.pack230.com
                Assistant Scoutmaster
                Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
                ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Lloyd Solis" <paperclp@...>
                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 15:44
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BALOO Training


                >
                > Beyond that, I think that 'expanding the scout leader's training
                > experiences is not a bad idea. We did a 'double course' over a year ago
                > that was BALOO from 8-5 and then WLOT till the next day about noon.
                > There were about half of the BALOO participants that stayed over.
              • Keith Tilley
                The Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders syllabus should be released in the next several weeks. As you ve all noticed, it was significantly
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                  The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                  released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                  significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                  made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                  was supposed to be released.

                  In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                  Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                  library.

                  Keith Tilley
                  Cub Scout Training Chairman
                  Hudson Valley Council, NY
                • Lloyd Solis
                  ... I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . It s going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is more than
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                    Keith Tilley wrote:

                    >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                    >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                    >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                    >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                    >was supposed to be released.
                    >
                    >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                    >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                    >library.
                    >
                    >Keith Tilley
                    >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                    >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                    >
                    >Hmmm,
                    >
                    I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
                    It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
                    more than character connection additions.

                    Thanks,

                    Lloyd

                    >
                    >
                  • Deborah A. Krieger
                    With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3 must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on the Tan shirt we may
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                      With the new Webelos badge...Earning the Webelos badge requirement 3
                      must be changed. Because the new Webelos badge is only to be worn on
                      the Tan shirt we may see the Blue shirt go away...The new Webelos hat of
                      course is not designed for the activity badges to be pinned to it as was
                      the previous hat...

                      Deb :)


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lloyd Solis [mailto:paperclp@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:20 AM
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training



                      Keith Tilley wrote:

                      >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                      >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                      >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos
                      program
                      >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time
                      it
                      >was supposed to be released.
                      >
                      >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the
                      Webelos
                      >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                      >library.
                      >
                      >Keith Tilley
                      >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                      >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                      >
                      >Hmmm,
                      >
                      I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was 'minor' .
                      It's going to be interesting to see the new handbook to see if there is
                      more than character connection additions.

                      Thanks,

                      Lloyd

                      >
                      >





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                    • Jim
                      According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders has been pushed back to mid-to-late November.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                        According to the #2 person in the Cub Scout Division, the launch of
                        "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders" has been pushed back to
                        mid-to-late November. Just thought you'd like to know.
                        YiS,
                        Jim Ball
                        Council Training Chairman
                        Central Florida Council

                        Keith Tilley wrote:

                        >The "Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" syllabus should be
                        >released in the next several weeks. As you've all noticed, it was
                        >significantly delayed, in large part because changes to the Webelos program
                        >made it obsolete between the time development was finished and the time it
                        >was supposed to be released.
                        >
                        >In the meantime, if you can't wait for the new one, keep using the Webelos
                        >Leader Outdoor Training syllabus from the old Cub Scout Basic Training
                        >library.
                        >
                        >Keith Tilley
                        >Cub Scout Training Chairman
                        >Hudson Valley Council, NY
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Richard Damon
                        First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out) which may change the requirements (part of the character connection revision). But
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 7, 2003
                          First note that there is a new book due out soon (if its not already out)
                          which may change the requirements (part of the character connection
                          revision). But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                          restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed. The
                          oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may be
                          worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                          isn't already).

                          The guide does not have the new cap, but I agree that without the protection
                          flap it should not be used for the pins (I never recommended it anyway as
                          the boys lose the caps too easily).

                          Richard Damon
                          --
                          rbrdamon@... (Home)
                          rdamon@... (Work)
                          Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
                          Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
                          Boston Minuteman Council
                          I used to be a fox... (NE-I-209)
                        • Keith Tilley
                          Lloyd Solis wrote: I was under the impression that any changes in webelos was minor . There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
                            Lloyd Solis wrote: "I was under the impression that any changes in webelos
                            was 'minor' ."

                            There are a lot of changes in the new Webelos book. The requirements for
                            the Webelos rank, Arrow of Light, and almost every activity badge have been
                            modified, and Character Connections is only one reason. The new "Outdoor
                            Leader Skills for Webelos Den Leaders" course also had to accommodate
                            changes in camping policy, the Guide to Safe Scouting, and age-appropriate
                            "who can do what" policies that have occurred last year.

                            Keith Tilley
                            Hudson Valley Council, NY
                          • John D. Halter
                            In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt and the diamond for the blue or tan shirt . It doesn t mention it in the text, but
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 8, 2003
                              In the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, they show the oval badge on the tan shirt
                              and the diamond for the "blue or tan shirt". It doesn't mention it in the
                              text, but the picture would lead me to believe that the oval badge is only
                              intended for the tan shirt.

                              Thank you,

                              John Halter
                              Cubmaster
                              Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                              www.pack230.com
                              Assistant Scoutmaster
                              Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                              Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
                              ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 00:14
                              Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO Training


                              >But according to the latest Uniform guide (2002-2004) the
                              > restriction on which shirt which badges can be worn on has been removed.
                              The
                              > oval badge does not say it can only be worn on the tan uniform, so it may
                              be
                              > worn on the blue (although it is a good time to move the boy to tan if he
                              > isn't already).
                              >
                            • Kris Swank
                              My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that where it diverges
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 9, 2004
                                My District runs IOLS and OWL (using the old Syllabus) together and the
                                learners get dual credit for attending. Much of it is so similar that
                                where it diverges we make a big point of the differences. We also do
                                quite a bit on the Webelos Outdoor group of Badges. The point of
                                combining was that many of the Dens do all their camping requirements
                                with a BS Troop and it would be helpful for the SM/ASM to have a
                                refresher course of Webelos age level activities. From experience I know
                                how a camp out with a Troop turned off a number of Webelos to the extent
                                they quit the next Den Meeting AND My husband...long long ago....had a
                                bad experience on a Webelos/Troop camp and he never went tinto a Troop
                                and held a grudge against Scouting until about 2000 when I got him to
                                training and Wood Badge.
                                YIS,
                                KRis Swank
                                Okee Tuklo District Training Chair
                                ETAC Webmaster
                                East Texas Area Council
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