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Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song

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  • Wendell Brown
    ... Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn t related to training. Wendell Brown Moderator Scouter_T
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 4, 2003
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      On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0400, Dave Loomis wrote:

      > Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
      >song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
      >die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
      > http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html
      >


      Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn't
      related to training.

      Wendell Brown
      Moderator Scouter_T
    • Debbie Beer
      I will have to say I totally agree with this statement. As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of interruptions and impromptu situations.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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        I will have to say I totally agree with this statement.

        As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of
        interruptions and impromptu situations. I can understand that someone who
        is very shy might have a problem with the interruption. I would also expect
        an experienced scouter to take that person by the hand and lead them right
        back up on stage and help them finish what they started. The experience
        would be a great confidence builder for all involved at that point.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
        To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 4:16 PM
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


        > This afternoon I had the honor of attending the Eagle Court of Honor for a
        > fine young man. A surprise element of the ceremony, and the entertainment
        > after, were the amazing Koshare Indian Dancers. At the ceremony, the
        > dancers came out and danced around the new Eagle. At one of the dances
        > after the ceremony, they asked the new Eagle to come on out and
        participate
        > in the dance, an idea which the audience supported, and which the did (and
        > did very well). Both times, the audience was delighted, but the Scout
        > seemed to be somewhat embarrassed. I would really have some difficulty
        > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have difficulty
        > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise someone
        with
        > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a spirit of
        > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
        > embarrass.
        >
        > Dan Kurtenbach
        > Fairfax, VA
        >
        >
        >
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      • Debbie Beer
        I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want to sing
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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          I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick
          out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want
          to sing the song we do not force them to sing the song.

          I have had the tea pot song work in two different ways. When they were very
          young they tried harder to keep track of what they brought to camp.
          However, when they got older they planted belongings so that they could get
          up and sing the tea pot song.

          I have also had kids volunteer to stand up with the singer and end up
          including the whole group in the song. They think of it as a tradition. In
          fact they feel like something is missing if they go through a whole camp out
          with out singing the song. I guess hazing is in how you present the
          program. The response I have had with the kids is definitely not a hazing,
          but a fellowship with my scouts.

          Just my two cents worth.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:11 PM
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


          > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Kurtenbach"
          > <danielkurtenbach@h...> wrote:
          > I would really have some difficulty
          > > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have
          > difficulty
          > > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise
          > someone with
          > > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a
          > spirit of
          > > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
          > > embarrass.
          >
          > Or have them sing 'I'm a little tea pot' if they loose something
          > at summer camp? Nope, your participating in a type of hazing
          > with the announcement song. you are making fun of the
          > person giving the announcement. you are hazing AND heckling them
          >
          > bill
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
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          >
          >
        • Dan Kurtenbach
          Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders any
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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            Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
            the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders
            any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
            non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
            comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
            counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
            leader?

            Dan Kurtenbach
            Fairfax, VA
          • Margaret Eacker
            A lot of that is covered in TDC. Everyone is a trainer in one way or another. I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as to be
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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              A lot of that is covered in TDC.
              Everyone is a "trainer" in one way or another.
              I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as
              to be more inviting to a broader group - oh well I guess it is up to
              all of us to recommend that everyone attend and if you can talk you
              council onto it invite the SPL's and troop instructors.

              YiS

              Margaret Eacker
              Double Buffalo


              On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 09:55 AM, Dan Kurtenbach wrote:

              > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside
              > from
              > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
              > leaders
              > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
              > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
              > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
              > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being
              > a
              > leader?
              >
              > Dan Kurtenbach
              > Fairfax, VA
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
              Brenda, In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT s I ll tell you that I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have seen many
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                Brenda,
                In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT's I'll tell you that
                I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have
                seen many people get bored with announcers who drone on and on.
                One of the versions goes: "Make the announcements short and sweet"
                which is something that any announcer should pay attention to. Give
                the facts (not a biography), have a flyer, and answer short questions
                - do longer discussions 'off-line'. If your announcers do this I doubt
                the people will get bored, even if they have just sung "announcements
                are boring".
                If someone broke into the song in the middle of an announcement I
                would consider that to be rude. The few times I've used it have always
                been as a prelude to announcements.

                Pete M.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bren909 [mailto:Bren216@...]
                Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:21 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it's
                certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys?

                I'm always a big proponent that people will react in the way that
                you want them to. So, when I (or anyone else in our meeting) make
                announcements, I expect the group to listen and to gain important
                information. In contrast, one of the versions of the song included
                the thought that announcements are boring. In my experience, that
                just sets the group up to not listen to the message because they
                expect it to be useless. It's hard enough to get information to a
                group (personally, I do it via announcements and back it up with
                printed fliers then add to that e-mail -- STILL, people will come up
                to me the day before an event and say, "I didn't know about this.")
                without having them tuning me out before I ever speak because they
                have been conditioned to assume that announcements are "boring."

                Brenda



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                Rick, How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your onedarknight page? The following two lines are in the song: My cousin Mort, He s sawed
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                  Rick,
                  How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your
                  'onedarknight' page?
                  The following two lines are in the song: "My cousin Mort, He's sawed off
                  and short,
                  He measures just four foot two,". Do you think this could be embarrassing
                  to a
                  vertically challenged boy, even if only one person turns around and stares
                  at him when
                  this verse is sung? I know your intent is not to offend anyone with these
                  lines but it could
                  happen. I'd be much more concerned if you included songs with the intention
                  to offend
                  certain people.

                  Pete Mullaney

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: KAREN & RICK RAMBO [mailto:krrambo@...]
                  Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:30 PM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                  I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
                  important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
                  someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
                  if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
                  not.

                  <snip>
                  Rick




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Laura Kilby
                  We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to include as many as possible, especially the older youth. Laura Santa Fe Trail,
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                    We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to
                    include as many as possible, especially the older youth.

                    Laura
                    Santa Fe Trail, District Training Chair
                    Quivira Council, Kansas
                  • Debbie Beer
                    I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers. I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another troop
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                      I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers.
                      I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another
                      troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                      presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for crew
                      advancement, he was unable to speak. After talking to the scout and the
                      parents, I found out that the troop that this boy came from did not prepare
                      him for public speaking. They did not do skits, songs, or troop
                      presentations. His boards of review were a set of questions that were
                      basically set by the scoutmaster. This scout is a senior patrol leader and
                      a life scout. It makes you wonder about the quality of the leadership that
                      let him get this far without being able to prepare for a simple board of
                      review, or a simple demonstration in front of his own troop.

                      I feel so sorry for this scout when he tries to go for a job interview or
                      any other type of engagement that would require him to speak in front of
                      others. I feel that feel that all this nonsense we do in scouting like
                      songs, skits, announcements really does help the scouts and the leaders
                      become better public speakers. It really does have a purpose and should not
                      end when a boy or a leader advances from cubscouting to the next level.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                      To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:55 AM
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)


                      > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                      > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                      leaders
                      > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                      > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                      > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                      > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                      > leader?
                      >
                      > Dan Kurtenbach
                      > Fairfax, VA
                      >
                      >
                      > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Bill Nelson
                      ... speakers. ... another ... crew ... Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching. But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should stress
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                        > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                        speakers.
                        > I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in
                        another
                        > troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                        > presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for
                        crew
                        > advancement, he was unable to speak.

                        Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching.

                        But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should
                        stress with the Scouts. That was one reason for the Communications
                        merit badge.

                        Bill
                      • Michael Brown
                        ... speakers. Being a very shy person, I ve always credited the fact that I was involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop as a PL
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                          > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                          speakers.

                          Being a very shy person, I've always credited the fact that I was
                          involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop
                          as a PL and later SPL, as well as an English teacher in high school
                          who felt the best way to learn to give speeches was to do a lot of
                          them with my ability to get up in front of a group and speak.

                          For most people, they have to go thru Dale Carnegie or Toastmasters
                          to get the same benefits I got as a youth... (and I've gone thru
                          Dale Carnegie and have joined Toastmasters).

                          Michael Brown
                          SW Florida Council
                        • Bill Nelson
                          I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of never lifting his head to talk
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                            I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking
                            problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of
                            never lifting his head to talk to someone (constantly talking to the
                            floor instead of the person). He ended up overcoming his speaking
                            problems, mostly, and becoming, after a few years, one of our better
                            SPLs.

                            (It's nice when you have a success story)

                            Bill
                          • Ken Todd
                            Debbie, Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important skill that people need in business and other organizations, like Scouting. I
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 10, 2003
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                              Debbie,

                              Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important
                              skill that people need in business and other organizations, like
                              Scouting. I strongly agree that we need to encourage our youth to take
                              every opportunity to become comfortable speaking in front of other
                              people.

                              In our Troop, we rotate the responsibility of Master of Ceremonies at
                              our quarterly Court of Honor to give different youth the opportunity to
                              be up front of the crowd. We also provide them support as they
                              prepare.

                              An organization that I also belong to is Toastmasters
                              <http://www.toastmasters.org/>. They have a program called the Youth
                              Leadership Program designed to help high school aged youth become
                              better speakers, and be more comfortable running meetings.

                              If you have a group of youth that would like to improve their
                              communications skills, or a group of Boy Scouts interested in working
                              on public Speaking and Communications Merit badges, I recommend Finding
                              a Toastmasters Club near you. They are an excellent resource for
                              communications training. Check out the website to find a club near
                              you.

                              Of course, they are always looking for adults to join and work on their
                              communications and leadership skills as well :o)

                              Yours in Scouting,
                              Ken

                              --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                              Message: 4
                              Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:51 -0500
                              From: "Debbie Beer" <beer@...>
                              Subject: Re: Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)

                              I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                              speakers....

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