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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song

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  • Dan Kurtenbach
    Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about -- they *aren t* examples of rudeness. Rudeness, like hazing, is not a morally
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
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      Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
      -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
      morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
      we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
      virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
      inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

      The problem is that people affected by things that other people
      unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
      they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
      what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
      and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
      Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
      feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
      something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
      saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
      is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
      front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
      embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
      happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
      feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
      conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

      Hope that explains my thinking on this.

      Dan Kurtenbach
      Fairfax, VA
    • KAREN & RICK RAMBO
      I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
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        I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or not.

        We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly, squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.

        Rick
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Dan Kurtenbach
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


        Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
        -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
        morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
        we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
        virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
        inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

        The problem is that people affected by things that other people
        unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
        they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
        what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
        and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
        Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
        feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
        something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
        saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
        is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
        front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
        embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
        happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
        feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
        conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

        Hope that explains my thinking on this.

        Dan Kurtenbach
        Fairfax, VA

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      • John D. Halter
        I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings Here
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
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          I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is
          sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings
          "Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in
          the wilderness, Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for {Late
          person} to come". Does anyone else do this?
          BTW...I'm usually the "late person", so I've heard it sung to me a bunch.
          :- )

          Thank you,

          John Halter
          Cubmaster
          Pack 230 Apopka Florida
          www.pack230.com
          Assistant Scoutmaster
          Troop 936 Longwood Florida
          Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
          ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "KAREN & RICK RAMBO" <krrambo@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 21:30
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


          > I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
          important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
          someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
          if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
          not.
          >
          > We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly,
          squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered
          the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down
          to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the
          three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be
          ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it
          is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to
          someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.
          >
          > Rick
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Dan Kurtenbach
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
          > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song
          >
          >
          > Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking
          about
          > -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is
          not a
          > morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore
          when
          > we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling
          his
          > virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
          > inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.
          >
          > The problem is that people affected by things that other people
          > unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on
          how
          > they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up
          characterizing
          > what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual
          facts,
          > and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the
          "offender."
          > Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because
          they
          > feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
          > something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I
          was
          > saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the
          conclusion
          > is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking
          in
          > front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
          > embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful."
          What
          > happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
          > feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
          > conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."
          >
          > Hope that explains my thinking on this.
          >
          > Dan Kurtenbach
          > Fairfax, VA
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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          >
          >
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          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
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          >
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          >
        • Dave Loomis
          Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements + way to die ,
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 3, 2003
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            Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
            song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
            die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
            http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html

            Dave


            To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

            Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
            245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
            Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
          • Wendell Brown
            ... Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn t related to training. Wendell Brown Moderator Scouter_T
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 4, 2003
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              On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0400, Dave Loomis wrote:

              > Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
              >song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
              >die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
              > http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html
              >


              Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn't
              related to training.

              Wendell Brown
              Moderator Scouter_T
            • Debbie Beer
              I will have to say I totally agree with this statement. As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of interruptions and impromptu situations.
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                I will have to say I totally agree with this statement.

                As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of
                interruptions and impromptu situations. I can understand that someone who
                is very shy might have a problem with the interruption. I would also expect
                an experienced scouter to take that person by the hand and lead them right
                back up on stage and help them finish what they started. The experience
                would be a great confidence builder for all involved at that point.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 4:16 PM
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                > This afternoon I had the honor of attending the Eagle Court of Honor for a
                > fine young man. A surprise element of the ceremony, and the entertainment
                > after, were the amazing Koshare Indian Dancers. At the ceremony, the
                > dancers came out and danced around the new Eagle. At one of the dances
                > after the ceremony, they asked the new Eagle to come on out and
                participate
                > in the dance, an idea which the audience supported, and which the did (and
                > did very well). Both times, the audience was delighted, but the Scout
                > seemed to be somewhat embarrassed. I would really have some difficulty
                > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have difficulty
                > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise someone
                with
                > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a spirit of
                > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                > embarrass.
                >
                > Dan Kurtenbach
                > Fairfax, VA
                >
                >
                >
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                >
                >
              • Debbie Beer
                I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want to sing
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                  I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick
                  out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want
                  to sing the song we do not force them to sing the song.

                  I have had the tea pot song work in two different ways. When they were very
                  young they tried harder to keep track of what they brought to camp.
                  However, when they got older they planted belongings so that they could get
                  up and sing the tea pot song.

                  I have also had kids volunteer to stand up with the singer and end up
                  including the whole group in the song. They think of it as a tradition. In
                  fact they feel like something is missing if they go through a whole camp out
                  with out singing the song. I guess hazing is in how you present the
                  program. The response I have had with the kids is definitely not a hazing,
                  but a fellowship with my scouts.

                  Just my two cents worth.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:11 PM
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                  > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Kurtenbach"
                  > <danielkurtenbach@h...> wrote:
                  > I would really have some difficulty
                  > > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have
                  > difficulty
                  > > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise
                  > someone with
                  > > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a
                  > spirit of
                  > > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                  > > embarrass.
                  >
                  > Or have them sing 'I'm a little tea pot' if they loose something
                  > at summer camp? Nope, your participating in a type of hazing
                  > with the announcement song. you are making fun of the
                  > person giving the announcement. you are hazing AND heckling them
                  >
                  > bill
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Dan Kurtenbach
                  Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders any
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                    Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                    the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders
                    any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                    non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                    comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                    counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                    leader?

                    Dan Kurtenbach
                    Fairfax, VA
                  • Margaret Eacker
                    A lot of that is covered in TDC. Everyone is a trainer in one way or another. I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as to be
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                      A lot of that is covered in TDC.
                      Everyone is a "trainer" in one way or another.
                      I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as
                      to be more inviting to a broader group - oh well I guess it is up to
                      all of us to recommend that everyone attend and if you can talk you
                      council onto it invite the SPL's and troop instructors.

                      YiS

                      Margaret Eacker
                      Double Buffalo


                      On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 09:55 AM, Dan Kurtenbach wrote:

                      > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside
                      > from
                      > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                      > leaders
                      > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                      > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                      > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                      > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being
                      > a
                      > leader?
                      >
                      > Dan Kurtenbach
                      > Fairfax, VA
                      >
                      <image.tiff>
                      >
                      >
                      > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                      Brenda, In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT s I ll tell you that I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have seen many
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                        Brenda,
                        In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT's I'll tell you that
                        I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have
                        seen many people get bored with announcers who drone on and on.
                        One of the versions goes: "Make the announcements short and sweet"
                        which is something that any announcer should pay attention to. Give
                        the facts (not a biography), have a flyer, and answer short questions
                        - do longer discussions 'off-line'. If your announcers do this I doubt
                        the people will get bored, even if they have just sung "announcements
                        are boring".
                        If someone broke into the song in the middle of an announcement I
                        would consider that to be rude. The few times I've used it have always
                        been as a prelude to announcements.

                        Pete M.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Bren909 [mailto:Bren216@...]
                        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:21 AM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                        Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it's
                        certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys?

                        I'm always a big proponent that people will react in the way that
                        you want them to. So, when I (or anyone else in our meeting) make
                        announcements, I expect the group to listen and to gain important
                        information. In contrast, one of the versions of the song included
                        the thought that announcements are boring. In my experience, that
                        just sets the group up to not listen to the message because they
                        expect it to be useless. It's hard enough to get information to a
                        group (personally, I do it via announcements and back it up with
                        printed fliers then add to that e-mail -- STILL, people will come up
                        to me the day before an event and say, "I didn't know about this.")
                        without having them tuning me out before I ever speak because they
                        have been conditioned to assume that announcements are "boring."

                        Brenda



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                        Rick, How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your onedarknight page? The following two lines are in the song: My cousin Mort, He s sawed
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                          Rick,
                          How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your
                          'onedarknight' page?
                          The following two lines are in the song: "My cousin Mort, He's sawed off
                          and short,
                          He measures just four foot two,". Do you think this could be embarrassing
                          to a
                          vertically challenged boy, even if only one person turns around and stares
                          at him when
                          this verse is sung? I know your intent is not to offend anyone with these
                          lines but it could
                          happen. I'd be much more concerned if you included songs with the intention
                          to offend
                          certain people.

                          Pete Mullaney

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: KAREN & RICK RAMBO [mailto:krrambo@...]
                          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:30 PM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                          I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
                          important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
                          someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
                          if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
                          not.

                          <snip>
                          Rick




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Laura Kilby
                          We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to include as many as possible, especially the older youth. Laura Santa Fe Trail,
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
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                            We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to
                            include as many as possible, especially the older youth.

                            Laura
                            Santa Fe Trail, District Training Chair
                            Quivira Council, Kansas
                          • Debbie Beer
                            I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers. I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another troop
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                              I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers.
                              I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another
                              troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                              presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for crew
                              advancement, he was unable to speak. After talking to the scout and the
                              parents, I found out that the troop that this boy came from did not prepare
                              him for public speaking. They did not do skits, songs, or troop
                              presentations. His boards of review were a set of questions that were
                              basically set by the scoutmaster. This scout is a senior patrol leader and
                              a life scout. It makes you wonder about the quality of the leadership that
                              let him get this far without being able to prepare for a simple board of
                              review, or a simple demonstration in front of his own troop.

                              I feel so sorry for this scout when he tries to go for a job interview or
                              any other type of engagement that would require him to speak in front of
                              others. I feel that feel that all this nonsense we do in scouting like
                              songs, skits, announcements really does help the scouts and the leaders
                              become better public speakers. It really does have a purpose and should not
                              end when a boy or a leader advances from cubscouting to the next level.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                              To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:55 AM
                              Subject: [Scouter_T] Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)


                              > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                              > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                              leaders
                              > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                              > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                              > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                              > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                              > leader?
                              >
                              > Dan Kurtenbach
                              > Fairfax, VA
                              >
                              >
                              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Bill Nelson
                              ... speakers. ... another ... crew ... Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching. But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should stress
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                speakers.
                                > I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in
                                another
                                > troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                                > presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for
                                crew
                                > advancement, he was unable to speak.

                                Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching.

                                But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should
                                stress with the Scouts. That was one reason for the Communications
                                merit badge.

                                Bill
                              • Michael Brown
                                ... speakers. Being a very shy person, I ve always credited the fact that I was involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop as a PL
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                  > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                  speakers.

                                  Being a very shy person, I've always credited the fact that I was
                                  involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop
                                  as a PL and later SPL, as well as an English teacher in high school
                                  who felt the best way to learn to give speeches was to do a lot of
                                  them with my ability to get up in front of a group and speak.

                                  For most people, they have to go thru Dale Carnegie or Toastmasters
                                  to get the same benefits I got as a youth... (and I've gone thru
                                  Dale Carnegie and have joined Toastmasters).

                                  Michael Brown
                                  SW Florida Council
                                • Bill Nelson
                                  I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of never lifting his head to talk
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
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                                    I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking
                                    problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of
                                    never lifting his head to talk to someone (constantly talking to the
                                    floor instead of the person). He ended up overcoming his speaking
                                    problems, mostly, and becoming, after a few years, one of our better
                                    SPLs.

                                    (It's nice when you have a success story)

                                    Bill
                                  • Ken Todd
                                    Debbie, Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important skill that people need in business and other organizations, like Scouting. I
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 10, 2003
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                                      Debbie,

                                      Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important
                                      skill that people need in business and other organizations, like
                                      Scouting. I strongly agree that we need to encourage our youth to take
                                      every opportunity to become comfortable speaking in front of other
                                      people.

                                      In our Troop, we rotate the responsibility of Master of Ceremonies at
                                      our quarterly Court of Honor to give different youth the opportunity to
                                      be up front of the crowd. We also provide them support as they
                                      prepare.

                                      An organization that I also belong to is Toastmasters
                                      <http://www.toastmasters.org/>. They have a program called the Youth
                                      Leadership Program designed to help high school aged youth become
                                      better speakers, and be more comfortable running meetings.

                                      If you have a group of youth that would like to improve their
                                      communications skills, or a group of Boy Scouts interested in working
                                      on public Speaking and Communications Merit badges, I recommend Finding
                                      a Toastmasters Club near you. They are an excellent resource for
                                      communications training. Check out the website to find a club near
                                      you.

                                      Of course, they are always looking for adults to join and work on their
                                      communications and leadership skills as well :o)

                                      Yours in Scouting,
                                      Ken

                                      --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                      Message: 4
                                      Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:51 -0500
                                      From: "Debbie Beer" <beer@...>
                                      Subject: Re: Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)

                                      I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                      speakers....

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