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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song

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  • Sean Scott
    Dan wrote: And I would suggest again that something is rude only if there is some *intent* to be rude. Dan, I d have to disagree with that.
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 2 9:56 AM
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      Dan wrote: <snip> And I would suggest again that something is rude only
      if there is some *intent* to be rude. <snip>

      Dan,

      I'd have to disagree with that. Consider the case where several adults
      stand in the back of a Scout meeting having a loud conversation. They
      continue talking, despite the fact that every person in the room has the
      Scout Sign up and are waiting for them to realize that everyone is
      waiting for them. They have no intent to be rude, yet they are.

      Consider the situation at a ball game where people don't remove their
      hat for the National Anthem. While some would consider it simply
      disrespectful, my son and daughters (14, 13 and 5) will waste no time in
      identifying (after the anthem, of course) every single person who didn't
      remove their cap. My son has even gone so far as to approach individuals
      in this case and remind them (politely, of course) that it is customary
      to remove one's cap for the Anthem in order to show respect for our
      flag, our nation, and our veterans.

      I don't think you can make the case that rudeness requires intent.
      Often, people who are being rude are oblivious to their actions.

      YiS,
      Sean
    • Dan Kurtenbach
      Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about -- they *aren t* examples of rudeness. Rudeness, like hazing, is not a morally
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 2 12:28 PM
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        Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
        -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
        morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
        we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
        virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
        inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

        The problem is that people affected by things that other people
        unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
        they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
        what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
        and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
        Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
        feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
        something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
        saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
        is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
        front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
        embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
        happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
        feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
        conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

        Hope that explains my thinking on this.

        Dan Kurtenbach
        Fairfax, VA
      • KAREN & RICK RAMBO
        I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 2 6:30 PM
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          I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or not.

          We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly, squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.

          Rick
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Dan Kurtenbach
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


          Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
          -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
          morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
          we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
          virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
          inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

          The problem is that people affected by things that other people
          unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
          they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
          what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
          and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
          Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
          feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
          something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
          saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
          is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
          front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
          embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
          happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
          feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
          conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

          Hope that explains my thinking on this.

          Dan Kurtenbach
          Fairfax, VA

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John D. Halter
          I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings Here
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 2 6:57 PM
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            I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is
            sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings
            "Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in
            the wilderness, Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for {Late
            person} to come". Does anyone else do this?
            BTW...I'm usually the "late person", so I've heard it sung to me a bunch.
            :- )

            Thank you,

            John Halter
            Cubmaster
            Pack 230 Apopka Florida
            www.pack230.com
            Assistant Scoutmaster
            Troop 936 Longwood Florida
            Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
            ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "KAREN & RICK RAMBO" <krrambo@...>
            To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 21:30
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


            > I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
            important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
            someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
            if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
            not.
            >
            > We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly,
            squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered
            the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down
            to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the
            three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be
            ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it
            is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to
            someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.
            >
            > Rick
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Dan Kurtenbach
            > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
            > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song
            >
            >
            > Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking
            about
            > -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is
            not a
            > morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore
            when
            > we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling
            his
            > virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
            > inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.
            >
            > The problem is that people affected by things that other people
            > unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on
            how
            > they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up
            characterizing
            > what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual
            facts,
            > and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the
            "offender."
            > Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because
            they
            > feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
            > something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I
            was
            > saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the
            conclusion
            > is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking
            in
            > front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
            > embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful."
            What
            > happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
            > feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
            > conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."
            >
            > Hope that explains my thinking on this.
            >
            > Dan Kurtenbach
            > Fairfax, VA
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            >
            >
            > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
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            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
            >
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            >
            >
          • Dave Loomis
            Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements + way to die ,
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 3 7:08 PM
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              Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
              song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
              die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
              http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html

              Dave


              To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

              Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
              245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
              Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
            • Wendell Brown
              ... Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn t related to training. Wendell Brown Moderator Scouter_T
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 4 4:26 AM
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                On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0400, Dave Loomis wrote:

                > Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
                >song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
                >die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
                > http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html
                >


                Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn't
                related to training.

                Wendell Brown
                Moderator Scouter_T
              • Debbie Beer
                I will have to say I totally agree with this statement. As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of interruptions and impromptu situations.
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 5 8:56 AM
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                  I will have to say I totally agree with this statement.

                  As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of
                  interruptions and impromptu situations. I can understand that someone who
                  is very shy might have a problem with the interruption. I would also expect
                  an experienced scouter to take that person by the hand and lead them right
                  back up on stage and help them finish what they started. The experience
                  would be a great confidence builder for all involved at that point.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 4:16 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                  > This afternoon I had the honor of attending the Eagle Court of Honor for a
                  > fine young man. A surprise element of the ceremony, and the entertainment
                  > after, were the amazing Koshare Indian Dancers. At the ceremony, the
                  > dancers came out and danced around the new Eagle. At one of the dances
                  > after the ceremony, they asked the new Eagle to come on out and
                  participate
                  > in the dance, an idea which the audience supported, and which the did (and
                  > did very well). Both times, the audience was delighted, but the Scout
                  > seemed to be somewhat embarrassed. I would really have some difficulty
                  > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have difficulty
                  > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise someone
                  with
                  > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a spirit of
                  > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                  > embarrass.
                  >
                  > Dan Kurtenbach
                  > Fairfax, VA
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                • Debbie Beer
                  I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want to sing
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 5 9:00 AM
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                    I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick
                    out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want
                    to sing the song we do not force them to sing the song.

                    I have had the tea pot song work in two different ways. When they were very
                    young they tried harder to keep track of what they brought to camp.
                    However, when they got older they planted belongings so that they could get
                    up and sing the tea pot song.

                    I have also had kids volunteer to stand up with the singer and end up
                    including the whole group in the song. They think of it as a tradition. In
                    fact they feel like something is missing if they go through a whole camp out
                    with out singing the song. I guess hazing is in how you present the
                    program. The response I have had with the kids is definitely not a hazing,
                    but a fellowship with my scouts.

                    Just my two cents worth.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
                    To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:11 PM
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                    > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Kurtenbach"
                    > <danielkurtenbach@h...> wrote:
                    > I would really have some difficulty
                    > > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have
                    > difficulty
                    > > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise
                    > someone with
                    > > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a
                    > spirit of
                    > > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                    > > embarrass.
                    >
                    > Or have them sing 'I'm a little tea pot' if they loose something
                    > at summer camp? Nope, your participating in a type of hazing
                    > with the announcement song. you are making fun of the
                    > person giving the announcement. you are hazing AND heckling them
                    >
                    > bill
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Dan Kurtenbach
                    Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders any
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 5 9:55 AM
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                      Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                      the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders
                      any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                      non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                      comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                      counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                      leader?

                      Dan Kurtenbach
                      Fairfax, VA
                    • Margaret Eacker
                      A lot of that is covered in TDC. Everyone is a trainer in one way or another. I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as to be
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 5 1:19 PM
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                        A lot of that is covered in TDC.
                        Everyone is a "trainer" in one way or another.
                        I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as
                        to be more inviting to a broader group - oh well I guess it is up to
                        all of us to recommend that everyone attend and if you can talk you
                        council onto it invite the SPL's and troop instructors.

                        YiS

                        Margaret Eacker
                        Double Buffalo


                        On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 09:55 AM, Dan Kurtenbach wrote:

                        > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside
                        > from
                        > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                        > leaders
                        > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                        > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                        > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                        > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being
                        > a
                        > leader?
                        >
                        > Dan Kurtenbach
                        > Fairfax, VA
                        >
                        <image.tiff>
                        >
                        >
                        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                        Brenda, In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT s I ll tell you that I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have seen many
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 5 1:45 PM
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                          Brenda,
                          In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT's I'll tell you that
                          I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have
                          seen many people get bored with announcers who drone on and on.
                          One of the versions goes: "Make the announcements short and sweet"
                          which is something that any announcer should pay attention to. Give
                          the facts (not a biography), have a flyer, and answer short questions
                          - do longer discussions 'off-line'. If your announcers do this I doubt
                          the people will get bored, even if they have just sung "announcements
                          are boring".
                          If someone broke into the song in the middle of an announcement I
                          would consider that to be rude. The few times I've used it have always
                          been as a prelude to announcements.

                          Pete M.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Bren909 [mailto:Bren216@...]
                          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:21 AM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                          Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it's
                          certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys?

                          I'm always a big proponent that people will react in the way that
                          you want them to. So, when I (or anyone else in our meeting) make
                          announcements, I expect the group to listen and to gain important
                          information. In contrast, one of the versions of the song included
                          the thought that announcements are boring. In my experience, that
                          just sets the group up to not listen to the message because they
                          expect it to be useless. It's hard enough to get information to a
                          group (personally, I do it via announcements and back it up with
                          printed fliers then add to that e-mail -- STILL, people will come up
                          to me the day before an event and say, "I didn't know about this.")
                          without having them tuning me out before I ever speak because they
                          have been conditioned to assume that announcements are "boring."

                          Brenda



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                        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                          Rick, How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your onedarknight page? The following two lines are in the song: My cousin Mort, He s sawed
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 5 2:24 PM
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                            Rick,
                            How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your
                            'onedarknight' page?
                            The following two lines are in the song: "My cousin Mort, He's sawed off
                            and short,
                            He measures just four foot two,". Do you think this could be embarrassing
                            to a
                            vertically challenged boy, even if only one person turns around and stares
                            at him when
                            this verse is sung? I know your intent is not to offend anyone with these
                            lines but it could
                            happen. I'd be much more concerned if you included songs with the intention
                            to offend
                            certain people.

                            Pete Mullaney

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: KAREN & RICK RAMBO [mailto:krrambo@...]
                            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:30 PM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                            I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
                            important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
                            someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
                            if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
                            not.

                            <snip>
                            Rick




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Laura Kilby
                            We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to include as many as possible, especially the older youth. Laura Santa Fe Trail,
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 5 3:27 PM
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                              We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to
                              include as many as possible, especially the older youth.

                              Laura
                              Santa Fe Trail, District Training Chair
                              Quivira Council, Kansas
                            • Debbie Beer
                              I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers. I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another troop
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 9 11:38 AM
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                                I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers.
                                I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another
                                troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                                presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for crew
                                advancement, he was unable to speak. After talking to the scout and the
                                parents, I found out that the troop that this boy came from did not prepare
                                him for public speaking. They did not do skits, songs, or troop
                                presentations. His boards of review were a set of questions that were
                                basically set by the scoutmaster. This scout is a senior patrol leader and
                                a life scout. It makes you wonder about the quality of the leadership that
                                let him get this far without being able to prepare for a simple board of
                                review, or a simple demonstration in front of his own troop.

                                I feel so sorry for this scout when he tries to go for a job interview or
                                any other type of engagement that would require him to speak in front of
                                others. I feel that feel that all this nonsense we do in scouting like
                                songs, skits, announcements really does help the scouts and the leaders
                                become better public speakers. It really does have a purpose and should not
                                end when a boy or a leader advances from cubscouting to the next level.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:55 AM
                                Subject: [Scouter_T] Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)


                                > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                                > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                                leaders
                                > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                                > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                                > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                                > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                                > leader?
                                >
                                > Dan Kurtenbach
                                > Fairfax, VA
                                >
                                >
                                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Bill Nelson
                                ... speakers. ... another ... crew ... Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching. But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should stress
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 9 12:39 PM
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                                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                  > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                  speakers.
                                  > I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in
                                  another
                                  > troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                                  > presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for
                                  crew
                                  > advancement, he was unable to speak.

                                  Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching.

                                  But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should
                                  stress with the Scouts. That was one reason for the Communications
                                  merit badge.

                                  Bill
                                • Michael Brown
                                  ... speakers. Being a very shy person, I ve always credited the fact that I was involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop as a PL
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 9 2:22 PM
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                                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                    > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                    speakers.

                                    Being a very shy person, I've always credited the fact that I was
                                    involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop
                                    as a PL and later SPL, as well as an English teacher in high school
                                    who felt the best way to learn to give speeches was to do a lot of
                                    them with my ability to get up in front of a group and speak.

                                    For most people, they have to go thru Dale Carnegie or Toastmasters
                                    to get the same benefits I got as a youth... (and I've gone thru
                                    Dale Carnegie and have joined Toastmasters).

                                    Michael Brown
                                    SW Florida Council
                                  • Bill Nelson
                                    I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of never lifting his head to talk
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 9 7:00 PM
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                                      I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking
                                      problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of
                                      never lifting his head to talk to someone (constantly talking to the
                                      floor instead of the person). He ended up overcoming his speaking
                                      problems, mostly, and becoming, after a few years, one of our better
                                      SPLs.

                                      (It's nice when you have a success story)

                                      Bill
                                    • Ken Todd
                                      Debbie, Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important skill that people need in business and other organizations, like Scouting. I
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 10 12:29 PM
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                                        Debbie,

                                        Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important
                                        skill that people need in business and other organizations, like
                                        Scouting. I strongly agree that we need to encourage our youth to take
                                        every opportunity to become comfortable speaking in front of other
                                        people.

                                        In our Troop, we rotate the responsibility of Master of Ceremonies at
                                        our quarterly Court of Honor to give different youth the opportunity to
                                        be up front of the crowd. We also provide them support as they
                                        prepare.

                                        An organization that I also belong to is Toastmasters
                                        <http://www.toastmasters.org/>. They have a program called the Youth
                                        Leadership Program designed to help high school aged youth become
                                        better speakers, and be more comfortable running meetings.

                                        If you have a group of youth that would like to improve their
                                        communications skills, or a group of Boy Scouts interested in working
                                        on public Speaking and Communications Merit badges, I recommend Finding
                                        a Toastmasters Club near you. They are an excellent resource for
                                        communications training. Check out the website to find a club near
                                        you.

                                        Of course, they are always looking for adults to join and work on their
                                        communications and leadership skills as well :o)

                                        Yours in Scouting,
                                        Ken

                                        --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                        Message: 4
                                        Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:51 -0500
                                        From: "Debbie Beer" <beer@...>
                                        Subject: Re: Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)

                                        I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                        speakers....

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