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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song

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  • Dan Kurtenbach
    Brenda wrote, Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it s certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys? Again, with respect, I
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
      Brenda wrote, "Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it's
      certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys?"

      Again, with respect, I don't think you can lay down a blanket rule that the
      Announcements Song is always rude. And I would suggest again that something
      is rude only if there is some *intent* to be rude. Indeed, if in a Pack
      meeting or other gathering where the song is *always* sung and is always
      expected, it might be rude *not* to welcome a speaker with it.

      Situations where the Announcements Song is sung, like Pack Meetings and
      Roundtables, are intended to be vortices of fun, and that is part of the
      reason people come. While people do come to such gatherings to get
      "important information," there is no reason why announcements have to stomp
      all over the general mood of good humor. Many announcements, even if
      important, ARE boring. They don't apply to many people in the room, or they
      go on too long, or they are being made at the wrong time or in the wrong
      meeting. That is why we try to keep them short and to the point and have
      them at an appropriate time.

      And that leads to one reason why the Announcements Song is a good and useful
      tool. A good meeting has a rhythm -- peaks and valleys of excitement and
      calm, fun and seriousness, with good transitions in between. Cheers,
      run-ons, jokes, and songs are very useful in transitioning between parts of
      a meeting. The Announcements Song is good because it is not only fun, but
      the lyrics themselves relate to the next segment of the meeting and signal
      the audience that, at the end of the song, it will be time to be calm for a
      few minutes. It is much more effective than trying to bring the fun to a
      dead stop all at once.

      Dan Kurtenbach
      Fairfax, VA
    • Sean Scott
      Dan wrote: And I would suggest again that something is rude only if there is some *intent* to be rude. Dan, I d have to disagree with that.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
        Dan wrote: <snip> And I would suggest again that something is rude only
        if there is some *intent* to be rude. <snip>

        Dan,

        I'd have to disagree with that. Consider the case where several adults
        stand in the back of a Scout meeting having a loud conversation. They
        continue talking, despite the fact that every person in the room has the
        Scout Sign up and are waiting for them to realize that everyone is
        waiting for them. They have no intent to be rude, yet they are.

        Consider the situation at a ball game where people don't remove their
        hat for the National Anthem. While some would consider it simply
        disrespectful, my son and daughters (14, 13 and 5) will waste no time in
        identifying (after the anthem, of course) every single person who didn't
        remove their cap. My son has even gone so far as to approach individuals
        in this case and remind them (politely, of course) that it is customary
        to remove one's cap for the Anthem in order to show respect for our
        flag, our nation, and our veterans.

        I don't think you can make the case that rudeness requires intent.
        Often, people who are being rude are oblivious to their actions.

        YiS,
        Sean
      • Dan Kurtenbach
        Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about -- they *aren t* examples of rudeness. Rudeness, like hazing, is not a morally
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
          Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
          -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
          morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
          we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
          virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
          inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

          The problem is that people affected by things that other people
          unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
          they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
          what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
          and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
          Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
          feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
          something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
          saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
          is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
          front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
          embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
          happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
          feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
          conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

          Hope that explains my thinking on this.

          Dan Kurtenbach
          Fairfax, VA
        • KAREN & RICK RAMBO
          I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
            I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered, someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or not.

            We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly, squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.

            Rick
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Dan Kurtenbach
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
            Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


            Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking about
            -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is not a
            morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore when
            we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling his
            virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
            inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.

            The problem is that people affected by things that other people
            unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on how
            they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up characterizing
            what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual facts,
            and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the "offender."
            Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because they
            feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
            something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I was
            saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the conclusion
            is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking in
            front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
            embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful." What
            happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
            feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
            conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."

            Hope that explains my thinking on this.

            Dan Kurtenbach
            Fairfax, VA

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John D. Halter
            I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings Here
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 2, 2003
              I was thinking about this earlier tonight. I was reminded of a song that is
              sometimes sung when a person shows up late for something. The group sings
              "Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in
              the wilderness, Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for {Late
              person} to come". Does anyone else do this?
              BTW...I'm usually the "late person", so I've heard it sung to me a bunch.
              :- )

              Thank you,

              John Halter
              Cubmaster
              Pack 230 Apopka Florida
              www.pack230.com
              Assistant Scoutmaster
              Troop 936 Longwood Florida
              Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
              ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "KAREN & RICK RAMBO" <krrambo@...>
              To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 21:30
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


              > I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
              important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
              someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
              if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
              not.
              >
              > We used to have the scout that lost something sing 'squirrelly,
              squirrelly, shake your bushy tail' to get it back, but when we considered
              the embarrassment factor, we stopped , same with turning the boy upside down
              to receive their bobcat badge, and - yes, the announcement song. what do the
              three of these things have in common? when the ADULTS who are supposed to be
              ROLE MODELS changed the rules, it was the BOYS who were the most upset. it
              is only natural for BOYS to enjoy anything that might be embarrassing to
              someone else, but it is the ADULT's job to help them learn the difference.
              >
              > Rick
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Dan Kurtenbach
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 12:28 PM
              > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song
              >
              >
              > Thanks, Sean. Actually, your examples are exactly what I am talking
              about
              > -- they *aren't* examples of rudeness. "Rudeness," like "hazing," is
              not a
              > morally neutral word; there is something bad about rudeness. Therefore
              when
              > we conclude that someone was "rude," we are in some small way calling
              his
              > virtue into question -- that is, his *intent.* Your examples show
              > inattention or ignorance or obliviousness, but not rudeness.
              >
              > The problem is that people affected by things that other people
              > unintentionally do (or don't do) sometimes draw a conclusion based on
              how
              > they feel, not on what actually happened. And then we end up
              characterizing
              > what happened by an incorrect conclusion rather than by the actual
              facts,
              > and that conclusion often deals with the relative virtue of the
              "offender."
              > Inattention becomes rudeness. And in many cases people do that because
              they
              > feel exactly the same way as they do when someone *intentionally* does
              > something to them. What happened is, "he didn't pay attention to what I
              was
              > saying"; the feeling is, "I'm hurt that he didn't listen"; the
              conclusion
              > is, "he was rude." What happened is, "I have a very hard time speaking
              in
              > front of people and the song threw me"; the feeling is, "I was very
              > embarrassed and stressed"; the conclusion is, "that song is hurtful."
              What
              > happened is, "he didn't take off his cap for the National Anthem"; the
              > feeling is, "every good American shows proper respect for the Flag"; the
              > conclusion is, "he is disrespectful and unpatriotic."
              >
              > Hope that explains my thinking on this.
              >
              > Dan Kurtenbach
              > Fairfax, VA
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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              >
              >
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              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
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              >
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              >
              >
            • Dave Loomis
              Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements + way to die ,
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 3, 2003
                Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
                song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
                die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
                http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html

                Dave


                To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

                Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
              • Wendell Brown
                ... Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn t related to training. Wendell Brown Moderator Scouter_T
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 4, 2003
                  On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0400, Dave Loomis wrote:

                  > Can we consider this topic closed? There are lots of verses to this
                  >song which can be found by doing a search on the words Announcements +"way to
                  >die", including one that I found on The Mac Scouter,
                  > http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/songs/announce.html
                  >


                  Yeah Dave. I think we need to close this topic. It really isn't
                  related to training.

                  Wendell Brown
                  Moderator Scouter_T
                • Debbie Beer
                  I will have to say I totally agree with this statement. As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of interruptions and impromptu situations.
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                    I will have to say I totally agree with this statement.

                    As a public speaker you have to learn to deal with all kinds of
                    interruptions and impromptu situations. I can understand that someone who
                    is very shy might have a problem with the interruption. I would also expect
                    an experienced scouter to take that person by the hand and lead them right
                    back up on stage and help them finish what they started. The experience
                    would be a great confidence builder for all involved at that point.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                    To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 4:16 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                    > This afternoon I had the honor of attending the Eagle Court of Honor for a
                    > fine young man. A surprise element of the ceremony, and the entertainment
                    > after, were the amazing Koshare Indian Dancers. At the ceremony, the
                    > dancers came out and danced around the new Eagle. At one of the dances
                    > after the ceremony, they asked the new Eagle to come on out and
                    participate
                    > in the dance, an idea which the audience supported, and which the did (and
                    > did very well). Both times, the audience was delighted, but the Scout
                    > seemed to be somewhat embarrassed. I would really have some difficulty
                    > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have difficulty
                    > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise someone
                    with
                    > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a spirit of
                    > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                    > embarrass.
                    >
                    > Dan Kurtenbach
                    > Fairfax, VA
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Debbie Beer
                    I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want to sing
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                      I have scouts that love to sing the little tea pot song. They get a kick
                      out of having fun in the spirit of scouting. Remember if they do not want
                      to sing the song we do not force them to sing the song.

                      I have had the tea pot song work in two different ways. When they were very
                      young they tried harder to keep track of what they brought to camp.
                      However, when they got older they planted belongings so that they could get
                      up and sing the tea pot song.

                      I have also had kids volunteer to stand up with the singer and end up
                      including the whole group in the song. They think of it as a tradition. In
                      fact they feel like something is missing if they go through a whole camp out
                      with out singing the song. I guess hazing is in how you present the
                      program. The response I have had with the kids is definitely not a hazing,
                      but a fellowship with my scouts.

                      Just my two cents worth.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
                      To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:11 PM
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                      > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Kurtenbach"
                      > <danielkurtenbach@h...> wrote:
                      > I would really have some difficulty
                      > > putting this in the category of "hazing," just as I would have
                      > difficulty
                      > > calling it hazing to sing "Happy Birthday" to someone, surprise
                      > someone with
                      > > the District Award of Merit, or sing the Announcement Song in a
                      > spirit of
                      > > good Scouting fun. I think hazing requires an *intent* to harm or
                      > > embarrass.
                      >
                      > Or have them sing 'I'm a little tea pot' if they loose something
                      > at summer camp? Nope, your participating in a type of hazing
                      > with the announcement song. you are making fun of the
                      > person giving the announcement. you are hazing AND heckling them
                      >
                      > bill
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Dan Kurtenbach
                      Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders any
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                        Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                        the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give leaders
                        any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                        non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                        comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                        counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                        leader?

                        Dan Kurtenbach
                        Fairfax, VA
                      • Margaret Eacker
                        A lot of that is covered in TDC. Everyone is a trainer in one way or another. I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as to be
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                          A lot of that is covered in TDC.
                          Everyone is a "trainer" in one way or another.
                          I had hoped when TTT was changed that they would change the name so as
                          to be more inviting to a broader group - oh well I guess it is up to
                          all of us to recommend that everyone attend and if you can talk you
                          council onto it invite the SPL's and troop instructors.

                          YiS

                          Margaret Eacker
                          Double Buffalo


                          On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 09:55 AM, Dan Kurtenbach wrote:

                          > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside
                          > from
                          > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                          > leaders
                          > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                          > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                          > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                          > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being
                          > a
                          > leader?
                          >
                          > Dan Kurtenbach
                          > Fairfax, VA
                          >
                          <image.tiff>
                          >
                          >
                          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                          >   scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                          Brenda, In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT s I ll tell you that I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have seen many
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                            Brenda,
                            In my short 11 years of experience with CS RT's I'll tell you that
                            I never saw anyone got bored by an announcement song, however I have
                            seen many people get bored with announcers who drone on and on.
                            One of the versions goes: "Make the announcements short and sweet"
                            which is something that any announcer should pay attention to. Give
                            the facts (not a biography), have a flyer, and answer short questions
                            - do longer discussions 'off-line'. If your announcers do this I doubt
                            the people will get bored, even if they have just sung "announcements
                            are boring".
                            If someone broke into the song in the middle of an announcement I
                            would consider that to be rude. The few times I've used it have always
                            been as a prelude to announcements.

                            Pete M.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Bren909 [mailto:Bren216@...]
                            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:21 AM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                            Whether or not the Announcements Song is hazing or not, it's
                            certainly rude. Is that what we want to teach our boys?

                            I'm always a big proponent that people will react in the way that
                            you want them to. So, when I (or anyone else in our meeting) make
                            announcements, I expect the group to listen and to gain important
                            information. In contrast, one of the versions of the song included
                            the thought that announcements are boring. In my experience, that
                            just sets the group up to not listen to the message because they
                            expect it to be useless. It's hard enough to get information to a
                            group (personally, I do it via announcements and back it up with
                            printed fliers then add to that e-mail -- STILL, people will come up
                            to me the day before an event and say, "I didn't know about this.")
                            without having them tuning me out before I ever speak because they
                            have been conditioned to assume that announcements are "boring."

                            Brenda



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                          • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                            Rick, How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your onedarknight page? The following two lines are in the song: My cousin Mort, He s sawed
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                              Rick,
                              How far do we go? Will you remove #58 Mountain Dew from your
                              'onedarknight' page?
                              The following two lines are in the song: "My cousin Mort, He's sawed off
                              and short,
                              He measures just four foot two,". Do you think this could be embarrassing
                              to a
                              vertically challenged boy, even if only one person turns around and stares
                              at him when
                              this verse is sung? I know your intent is not to offend anyone with these
                              lines but it could
                              happen. I'd be much more concerned if you included songs with the intention
                              to offend
                              certain people.

                              Pete Mullaney

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: KAREN & RICK RAMBO [mailto:krrambo@...]
                              Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:30 PM
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Announcements Song


                              I am starting to become concerned. It appears that now intent is more
                              important than actions. while to some degree, intent has to be considered,
                              someone who has never been taught that something is rude is still being rude
                              if they participate in the offending activity - weather they realize it or
                              not.

                              <snip>
                              Rick




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Laura Kilby
                              We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to include as many as possible, especially the older youth. Laura Santa Fe Trail,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 5, 2003
                                We will be doing a district level TDC, specifically because we do want to
                                include as many as possible, especially the older youth.

                                Laura
                                Santa Fe Trail, District Training Chair
                                Quivira Council, Kansas
                              • Debbie Beer
                                I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers. I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another troop
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
                                  I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public speakers.
                                  I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in another
                                  troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                                  presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for crew
                                  advancement, he was unable to speak. After talking to the scout and the
                                  parents, I found out that the troop that this boy came from did not prepare
                                  him for public speaking. They did not do skits, songs, or troop
                                  presentations. His boards of review were a set of questions that were
                                  basically set by the scoutmaster. This scout is a senior patrol leader and
                                  a life scout. It makes you wonder about the quality of the leadership that
                                  let him get this far without being able to prepare for a simple board of
                                  review, or a simple demonstration in front of his own troop.

                                  I feel so sorry for this scout when he tries to go for a job interview or
                                  any other type of engagement that would require him to speak in front of
                                  others. I feel that feel that all this nonsense we do in scouting like
                                  songs, skits, announcements really does help the scouts and the leaders
                                  become better public speakers. It really does have a purpose and should not
                                  end when a boy or a leader advances from cubscouting to the next level.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Dan Kurtenbach" <danielkurtenbach@...>
                                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:55 AM
                                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)


                                  > Debbie has hit on an issue that really *is* training related -- aside from
                                  > the substance of Scouting, to what extent do we (or should we) give
                                  leaders
                                  > any training on speaking to groups (kids, adults, mixed, Scouting,
                                  > non-Scouting, mixed), non-verbal communication (how to make a Scout
                                  > comfortable in a Scoutmaster conference, for example), how to conduct a
                                  > counseling session, and other "background" skills that come with being a
                                  > leader?
                                  >
                                  > Dan Kurtenbach
                                  > Fairfax, VA
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
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                                  >
                                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
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                                  >
                                • Bill Nelson
                                  ... speakers. ... another ... crew ... Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching. But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should stress
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
                                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                    > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                    speakers.
                                    > I had one boy come to our Venture Crew after spending many years in
                                    another
                                    > troop in his community. The first time this scout had to make a
                                    > presentation and the first time he had to do a board of review for
                                    crew
                                    > advancement, he was unable to speak.

                                    Crew awards, in Venturing, require teaching.

                                    But I agree with you the public speaking is something that we should
                                    stress with the Scouts. That was one reason for the Communications
                                    merit badge.

                                    Bill
                                  • Michael Brown
                                    ... speakers. Being a very shy person, I ve always credited the fact that I was involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop as a PL
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                                      > I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                      speakers.

                                      Being a very shy person, I've always credited the fact that I was
                                      involved in Boy Scouts as a youth and had to get in front of my troop
                                      as a PL and later SPL, as well as an English teacher in high school
                                      who felt the best way to learn to give speeches was to do a lot of
                                      them with my ability to get up in front of a group and speak.

                                      For most people, they have to go thru Dale Carnegie or Toastmasters
                                      to get the same benefits I got as a youth... (and I've gone thru
                                      Dale Carnegie and have joined Toastmasters).

                                      Michael Brown
                                      SW Florida Council
                                    • Bill Nelson
                                      I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of never lifting his head to talk
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 9, 2003
                                        I had a boy join my troop who had a very serious public speaking
                                        problem. Not only did he studder, but he also had the habit of
                                        never lifting his head to talk to someone (constantly talking to the
                                        floor instead of the person). He ended up overcoming his speaking
                                        problems, mostly, and becoming, after a few years, one of our better
                                        SPLs.

                                        (It's nice when you have a success story)

                                        Bill
                                      • Ken Todd
                                        Debbie, Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important skill that people need in business and other organizations, like Scouting. I
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 10, 2003
                                          Debbie,

                                          Public speaking is one of the most feared, and often most important
                                          skill that people need in business and other organizations, like
                                          Scouting. I strongly agree that we need to encourage our youth to take
                                          every opportunity to become comfortable speaking in front of other
                                          people.

                                          In our Troop, we rotate the responsibility of Master of Ceremonies at
                                          our quarterly Court of Honor to give different youth the opportunity to
                                          be up front of the crowd. We also provide them support as they
                                          prepare.

                                          An organization that I also belong to is Toastmasters
                                          <http://www.toastmasters.org/>. They have a program called the Youth
                                          Leadership Program designed to help high school aged youth become
                                          better speakers, and be more comfortable running meetings.

                                          If you have a group of youth that would like to improve their
                                          communications skills, or a group of Boy Scouts interested in working
                                          on public Speaking and Communications Merit badges, I recommend Finding
                                          a Toastmasters Club near you. They are an excellent resource for
                                          communications training. Check out the website to find a club near
                                          you.

                                          Of course, they are always looking for adults to join and work on their
                                          communications and leadership skills as well :o)

                                          Yours in Scouting,
                                          Ken

                                          --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                          Message: 4
                                          Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:51 -0500
                                          From: "Debbie Beer" <beer@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Communications Training (spinoff of Announcements Song)

                                          I really do think that we need to prepare our scouts to be public
                                          speakers....

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