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RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

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  • Richard Damon
    Deb, It may not be the way YOU want to define family camping, but the way the BSA defines family camping is: Family camping: an outdoor camping experience,
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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      Deb,
      It may not be the way YOU want to define family camping, but the way the
      BSA defines family camping is:

      Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident
      camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program
      elements in overnight settings with two or more family members,
      including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are
      responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection
      guidelines apply.

      And Youth Protection guidelines state:

      Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
      facility.

      So male and female siblings may not sleep in the same sleeping facility,
      which includes tents.

      It may be true that this rule should be revised, and it is true that
      this rule is commonly ignored, but it is the current rule.

      Richard Damon
      --
      rbrdamon@... (Home)
      rdamon@... (Work)
      Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
      Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
      Boston Minuteman Council
      I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Deb Morrow [mailto:corzines@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:37 AM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

      Folks, This is not for Family Camping! Family Camping is where
      the entire family camps together in whatever configuration they
      wish (one tent, tent for youth & tent for adults, etc.), specifically
      for Tiger, Wolves, and Bears!

      Deb Morrow
      corzines@...
    • Richard Damon
      Unfortunately, if this rule only applied to co-ed crews then during family camping there is nothing keeping his 15 year old sister (who is not a scout) from
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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        Unfortunately, if this rule only applied to co-ed crews then during
        family camping there is nothing keeping his 15 year old sister (who is
        not a scout) from sleeping with another boys 16 year old brother (who is
        not a scout) (unless the parent enforced their own rules, and some might
        not). Notice the use of the word "participant" and not "scout" or
        "member", to broaden the scope of the rule to include everyone
        participating in the event. I will agree that there probably SHOULD be
        an exception to allow a family to all tent together at family camp, the
        rules unfortunately do not currently have one.

        Richard Damon
        --
        rbrdamon@... (Home)
        rdamon@... (Work)
        Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
        Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
        Boston Minuteman Council
        I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John D. Halter [mailto:john@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:44 PM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

            I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a
        co-ed
        crew, not to brothers and sisters.  All other references to
        "participants"
        seem to indicate a registered scout.  Common sense would seem to dictate
        that since the Cub Scout program is supposed to promote family
        participation, why would I require 8 yr old Jimmy to sleep in a separate
        tent from his 6 yr old sister Sally.  If anything, that would prohibit
        most
        families from being able to camp.

        Thank you,

        John Halter
        Cubmaster
        Pack 230 Apopka Florida
        www.pack230.com
        Assistant Scoutmaster
        Troop 936 Longwood Florida
        Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
        ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too!   SR442
      • Debbie Beer
        Family camping is different as noted in previous e-mails. Bothers and Sisters may sleep in the same tent with their parents and/or guardians. Having brother
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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          Family camping is different as noted in previous e-mails. Bothers and
          Sisters may sleep in the same tent with their parents and/or guardians.
          Having brother and sister in the same tent without parents or guardians is
          discouraged.

          A little common sense goes a long way in these matters.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John D. Halter" <john@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements


          > I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a
          co-ed
          > crew, not to brothers and sisters. All other references to "participants"
          > seem to indicate a registered scout. Common sense would seem to dictate
          > that since the Cub Scout program is supposed to promote family
          > participation, why would I require 8 yr old Jimmy to sleep in a separate
          > tent from his 6 yr old sister Sally. If anything, that would prohibit
          most
          > families from being able to camp.
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > John Halter
          > Cubmaster
          > Pack 230 Apopka Florida
          > www.pack230.com
          > Assistant Scoutmaster
          > Troop 936 Longwood Florida
          > Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
          > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...>
          > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 09:45
          > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements
          >
          >
          > >From the Guide to Safe Scouting
          >
          > I - Youth Protection and Adult Leadership
          >
          > Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings
          > ...
          > 4. Male and female leaders require separate sleeping facilities. Married
          > couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are
          > available.
          >
          > 5. Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units:
          > Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room
          > accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four
          > youth. Both adults are required to be youth-protection trained. Adults
          > must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as temporary
          > blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing
          > area separated from the youth.
          >
          > 6. Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
          > facility.
          >
          > 7. When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult
          > other than his or her parent or guardian.
          >
          > Point 6 is clear that youth of opposite sex do not sleep together, so
          > even if siblings share a room at home, they should not do so while on
          > scout camping.
          >
          > Richard Damon
          > --
          > rbrdamon@... (Home)
          > rdamon@... (Work)
          > Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
          > Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
          > Boston Minuteman Council
          > I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Tim [mailto:aquaboy2001@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:12 AM
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements
          >
          > Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
          > together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
          > (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
          > married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
          > room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?
          >
          > The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
          > could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
          > of not putting male/female together.
          >
          > Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > Tim
          >
          >
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        • Tim
          Thank you all for your replies. It helps, although, as in many cases, the BSA National Standards are on the foggy side. I wish they would come out and state it
          Message 4 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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            Thank you all for your replies. It helps, although, as in many cases,
            the BSA National Standards are on the foggy side. I wish they would
            come out and state it clearly "NO, siblings of different sexes do not
            camp together." OR "Yes, it is OK for siblings of different sexes to
            camp together." Hopefully, they will update that standard soon.

            Tim


            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <aquaboy2001@n...> wrote:
            > Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
            > together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
            > (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
            > married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
            > room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?
            >
            > The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
            > could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
            > of not putting male/female together.
            >
            > Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?
            >
            > Thank you.
            >
            > Tim
          • Lloyd Solis
            ... I think that #6 relates to registered scouts , specifically male and female venturers. I don t think they are implying cub scout brothers and their
            Message 5 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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              Richard Damon wrote:

              >
              > 6. Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
              > facility.
              >
              > 7. When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult
              > other than his or her parent or guardian.
              >
              > Point 6 is clear that youth of opposite sex do not sleep together, so
              > even if siblings share a room at home, they should not do so while on
              > scout camping.
              >
              > Richard Damon

              I think that #6 relates to 'registered scouts', specifically male and female venturers.
              I don't think they are implying cub scout brothers and their sisters.
              But then, I've made a couple of mistakes already this week in my postings.
              I'm certainly not going to tell my families that they cannot have their boy children and
              girl children together with mom and dad in their own tent.

              YiS

              Lloyd


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