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RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

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  • Richard Damon
    The Guide to safe scouting says no (as I previously quoted), but I will agree that this rule is often not enforced at family camp for siblings. My council will
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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      The Guide to safe scouting says no (as I previously quoted), but I will
      agree that this rule is often not enforced at family camp for siblings.
      My council will even put multiple mixed families inside a large cabin
      together, which is even more off policy.

      Richard Damon
      --
      rbrdamon@... (Home)
      rdamon@... (Work)
      Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
      Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
      Boston Minuteman Council
      I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES] [mailto:peter.mullaney@...]

      Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:37 AM
      To: 'scouter_t@yahoogroups.com'
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

      I can't 'quote' you anything, but a family can use one tent.
      If this is not correct, my council is in big trouble, since
      at our council sponsored 'Cub Scout Family Camping' entire
      families use a single tent.

      Pete M.
      "There is nothing so uncommon, as common sense."
      My dad and probably many others.

      > ----------
      > From:       Tim
      > Reply To:       scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent:       Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:11 AM
      > To:       scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject:       [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements
      >
      > Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
      > together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
      > (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
      > married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
      > room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?
      >
      > The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
      > could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
      > of not putting male/female together.
      >
      > Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?
      >
      > Thank you.
      >
      > Tim
      >
      >


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    • Richard Damon
      Deb, It may not be the way YOU want to define family camping, but the way the BSA defines family camping is: Family camping: an outdoor camping experience,
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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        Deb,
        It may not be the way YOU want to define family camping, but the way the
        BSA defines family camping is:

        Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident
        camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program
        elements in overnight settings with two or more family members,
        including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are
        responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection
        guidelines apply.

        And Youth Protection guidelines state:

        Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
        facility.

        So male and female siblings may not sleep in the same sleeping facility,
        which includes tents.

        It may be true that this rule should be revised, and it is true that
        this rule is commonly ignored, but it is the current rule.

        Richard Damon
        --
        rbrdamon@... (Home)
        rdamon@... (Work)
        Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
        Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
        Boston Minuteman Council
        I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Deb Morrow [mailto:corzines@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:37 AM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

        Folks, This is not for Family Camping! Family Camping is where
        the entire family camps together in whatever configuration they
        wish (one tent, tent for youth & tent for adults, etc.), specifically
        for Tiger, Wolves, and Bears!

        Deb Morrow
        corzines@...
      • John D. Halter
        I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a co-ed crew, not to brothers and sisters. All other references to participants seem to
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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          I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a co-ed
          crew, not to brothers and sisters. All other references to "participants"
          seem to indicate a registered scout. Common sense would seem to dictate
          that since the Cub Scout program is supposed to promote family
          participation, why would I require 8 yr old Jimmy to sleep in a separate
          tent from his 6 yr old sister Sally. If anything, that would prohibit most
          families from being able to camp.

          Thank you,

          John Halter
          Cubmaster
          Pack 230 Apopka Florida
          www.pack230.com
          Assistant Scoutmaster
          Troop 936 Longwood Florida
          Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
          ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 09:45
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements


          From the Guide to Safe Scouting

          I - Youth Protection and Adult Leadership

          Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings
          ...
          4. Male and female leaders require separate sleeping facilities. Married
          couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are
          available.

          5. Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units:
          Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room
          accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four
          youth. Both adults are required to be youth-protection trained. Adults
          must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as temporary
          blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing
          area separated from the youth.

          6. Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
          facility.

          7. When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult
          other than his or her parent or guardian.

          Point 6 is clear that youth of opposite sex do not sleep together, so
          even if siblings share a room at home, they should not do so while on
          scout camping.

          Richard Damon
          --
          rbrdamon@... (Home)
          rdamon@... (Work)
          Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
          Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
          Boston Minuteman Council
          I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tim [mailto:aquaboy2001@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:12 AM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

          Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
          together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
          (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
          married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
          room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?

          The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
          could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
          of not putting male/female together.

          Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?

          Thank you.

          Tim



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        • Richard Damon
          Unfortunately, if this rule only applied to co-ed crews then during family camping there is nothing keeping his 15 year old sister (who is not a scout) from
          Message 4 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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            Unfortunately, if this rule only applied to co-ed crews then during
            family camping there is nothing keeping his 15 year old sister (who is
            not a scout) from sleeping with another boys 16 year old brother (who is
            not a scout) (unless the parent enforced their own rules, and some might
            not). Notice the use of the word "participant" and not "scout" or
            "member", to broaden the scope of the rule to include everyone
            participating in the event. I will agree that there probably SHOULD be
            an exception to allow a family to all tent together at family camp, the
            rules unfortunately do not currently have one.

            Richard Damon
            --
            rbrdamon@... (Home)
            rdamon@... (Work)
            Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
            Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
            Boston Minuteman Council
            I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John D. Halter [mailto:john@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:44 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements

                I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a
            co-ed
            crew, not to brothers and sisters.  All other references to
            "participants"
            seem to indicate a registered scout.  Common sense would seem to dictate
            that since the Cub Scout program is supposed to promote family
            participation, why would I require 8 yr old Jimmy to sleep in a separate
            tent from his 6 yr old sister Sally.  If anything, that would prohibit
            most
            families from being able to camp.

            Thank you,

            John Halter
            Cubmaster
            Pack 230 Apopka Florida
            www.pack230.com
            Assistant Scoutmaster
            Troop 936 Longwood Florida
            Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
            ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too!   SR442
          • Debbie Beer
            Family camping is different as noted in previous e-mails. Bothers and Sisters may sleep in the same tent with their parents and/or guardians. Having brother
            Message 5 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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              Family camping is different as noted in previous e-mails. Bothers and
              Sisters may sleep in the same tent with their parents and/or guardians.
              Having brother and sister in the same tent without parents or guardians is
              discouraged.

              A little common sense goes a long way in these matters.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "John D. Halter" <john@...>
              To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements


              > I would think that the rule mentioned below (#6) is referring to a
              co-ed
              > crew, not to brothers and sisters. All other references to "participants"
              > seem to indicate a registered scout. Common sense would seem to dictate
              > that since the Cub Scout program is supposed to promote family
              > participation, why would I require 8 yr old Jimmy to sleep in a separate
              > tent from his 6 yr old sister Sally. If anything, that would prohibit
              most
              > families from being able to camp.
              >
              > Thank you,
              >
              > John Halter
              > Cubmaster
              > Pack 230 Apopka Florida
              > www.pack230.com
              > Assistant Scoutmaster
              > Troop 936 Longwood Florida
              > Wekiwa District Round Table Staff
              > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Richard Damon" <rdamon@...>
              > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 09:45
              > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements
              >
              >
              > >From the Guide to Safe Scouting
              >
              > I - Youth Protection and Adult Leadership
              >
              > Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings
              > ...
              > 4. Male and female leaders require separate sleeping facilities. Married
              > couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are
              > available.
              >
              > 5. Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units:
              > Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room
              > accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four
              > youth. Both adults are required to be youth-protection trained. Adults
              > must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as temporary
              > blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing
              > area separated from the youth.
              >
              > 6. Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
              > facility.
              >
              > 7. When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult
              > other than his or her parent or guardian.
              >
              > Point 6 is clear that youth of opposite sex do not sleep together, so
              > even if siblings share a room at home, they should not do so while on
              > scout camping.
              >
              > Richard Damon
              > --
              > rbrdamon@... (Home)
              > rdamon@... (Work)
              > Pack Trainer, Pack 306, Arlington, MA
              > Member of Committee (Secretary, Training Coordinator), Troop 302
              > Boston Minuteman Council
              > I used to be a fox (NE-I-209)
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Tim [mailto:aquaboy2001@...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:12 AM
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Scouter_T] Sleeping Arrangements
              >
              > Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
              > together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
              > (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
              > married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
              > room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?
              >
              > The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
              > could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
              > of not putting male/female together.
              >
              > Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?
              >
              > Thank you.
              >
              > Tim
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Tim
              Thank you all for your replies. It helps, although, as in many cases, the BSA National Standards are on the foggy side. I wish they would come out and state it
              Message 6 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                Thank you all for your replies. It helps, although, as in many cases,
                the BSA National Standards are on the foggy side. I wish they would
                come out and state it clearly "NO, siblings of different sexes do not
                camp together." OR "Yes, it is OK for siblings of different sexes to
                camp together." Hopefully, they will update that standard soon.

                Tim


                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <aquaboy2001@n...> wrote:
                > Regarding Cub Scout family camping: When families are camping
                > together, we have made it clear that adults don't sleep with children
                > (except their own), male/female adults do not sleep together unless
                > married, but what about mixed siblings. Many perhaps sleep in the same
                > room at home. Do they need to be split up on a camping trip?
                >
                > The question came up in a recent Baloo training. The only answer we
                > could give at the time was to split them up according to the standard
                > of not putting male/female together.
                >
                > Anyone have experience with this or know any policy?
                >
                > Thank you.
                >
                > Tim
              • Lloyd Solis
                ... I think that #6 relates to registered scouts , specifically male and female venturers. I don t think they are implying cub scout brothers and their
                Message 7 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                  Richard Damon wrote:

                  >
                  > 6. Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping
                  > facility.
                  >
                  > 7. When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult
                  > other than his or her parent or guardian.
                  >
                  > Point 6 is clear that youth of opposite sex do not sleep together, so
                  > even if siblings share a room at home, they should not do so while on
                  > scout camping.
                  >
                  > Richard Damon

                  I think that #6 relates to 'registered scouts', specifically male and female venturers.
                  I don't think they are implying cub scout brothers and their sisters.
                  But then, I've made a couple of mistakes already this week in my postings.
                  I'm certainly not going to tell my families that they cannot have their boy children and
                  girl children together with mom and dad in their own tent.

                  YiS

                  Lloyd


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