Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

Expand Messages
  • Sean Scott
    Teresa asked: Have any of you added material to the BALOO training? We ve only taught it twice, and very by-the-book. The biggest lack in BALOO, as I
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Teresa asked: Have any of you added material to the BALOO training? We've
      only taught it twice, and very "by-the-book." <snip> The biggest lack in
      BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on appropriate safety guidelines
      for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard information.


      Teresa,

      To answer your second question, we tell our attendees that they should bring
      the wood prepared and that axes and saws are not a Cub Scout age-appropriate
      activity. Pre-cut and split wood is easier to transport to and from camp
      anyway, and doesn't require bringing tools or preparation. Plus, to quote
      the adage, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,"
      having an axe makes one want to chop something, including the native
      vegetation.

      If your parents are splitting wood and leaving the tools lying about, they
      should certainly be educated about the use of axes and saws. If I'm not
      mistaken, it's listed in the G2SS.

      As for adding material to BALOO, the syllabus is a framework from which to
      work. You need to address the learning objectives and cover the material,
      but I believe that it needs to be added to (but not subtracted from) to meet
      your local circumstances. For example, if you live in an area where
      tick-borne illnesses are a concern, it should be a topic of discussion.

      Our district training team actually made significant modifications to the
      BALOO schedule, which we feel improve the flow and the learning that takes
      place. We've taught the class that way several times, as have some of our
      other districts. Several other councils have adopted our enhancements (or a
      variation of them), including Orange County Council, where my son and I were
      privileged to be guest trainers for their BALOO event yesterday.

      Of course, a healthy amount of pizzazz is welcome in any training,
      especially one that's eight hours long! Being a new course, some teams may
      want to get accustomed to the content and flow before they start adapting
      it. We actually dry-ran the training as a team before making the decision to
      change things, and even made changes after the second and third courses we
      presented before settling on the version we use now. If you're interested,
      I'll send a copy of our schedule and trainer's guide as a Word document.

      YiS,
      Sean
    • Richard Damon
      I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety to the
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard
        the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety
        to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use axes.

        Richard Damon
        Pack Trainer, Pack 306
        Member of Committee, Troup 302
        Boston Minuteman Council
        Arlington, MA
        --
        rbrdamon@... (Home)
        rdamon@... (Work)



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Chris Jacobi [mailto:jacobi@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:26 AM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

        >The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
        >appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
        >information

        These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
        appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
        sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)

        Chris
      • Thomas G Bingaman
        There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the tote & chip card is for, and the
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if
          they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the
          tote & chip card is for, and the requirements that are in the
          "Scout Handbook". We must let our youth mature and become
          adults. They can not be kept from harms way they need
          to be trained to stay safe.

          Tom "B"

          Chris Jacobi wrote:
          >>The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
          >>appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
          >>information
          >
          >
          > These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
          > appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
          > sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)
          >
          > Chris
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Scouter Chuck
          Thomas G Bingaman wrote... ... And that is exactly the point. BALOO training is for Cub leaders, not Boy Scout leaders. These were not Boy Scouts, with Tote
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Thomas G Bingaman wrote...

            > There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if
            > they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the
            > tote & chip card is for, and the requirements that are in the
            > "Scout Handbook".

            And that is exactly the point. BALOO training is for Cub leaders,
            not Boy Scout leaders. These were not Boy Scouts, with Tote n'
            Chip cards showing they had been properly trained, nor Boy Scout
            Handbooks from which to be trained.

            I'll tell my ax horror story, now:

            I work camporee staff, and a few years ago we had a camporee at one
            of the "local" general purpose Scout Camps.

            As I was walking thru the area that was assigned to my old Troop (I
            was still working with it at the time), I saw 5 young Scouts
            gathered around a piece of log, with one boy in the center flailing
            away at it with a hand-ax. About every 8 or 9 strokes, the edge of
            the ax would actually come in contact with the wood. the other
            boys were no more that 3 feet from him or the wood.

            I let out a deep booming "Who's the Boy Scout here?", and every-
            thing stopped. One boy identified himself as a Boy Scout. The one
            with the ax. I began asking him some questions on ax safety, and
            it soon became clear that he hadn't the slightest idea of what I
            was talking about. Still thinking I was dealing with a young Boy
            Scout, I assigned him some reading on ax safety from the Boy Scout
            Handbook.

            He turned out to be a Webelos, just like the other four. But I had
            made my point, and they knew that in my opinion, someone could have
            been hurt by the ax.

            I also found out that one of the parents calmly observing my
            lecture turned out to be the father of the now scared to death
            Webelos. Talking with him later, he agreed with me completely on
            the ax safety, and remarked that the boy was lucky it was only me
            that caught him. The boy had taken the hand-ax out of the car
            without permission. I never did lift that assignment, BTW. ;)

            > We must let our youth mature and become adults. They can not be
            > kept from harms way they need to be trained to stay safe.

            I am 100% in agreement with you, as long as what they learn is age
            appropriate. Axes and saws are not age appropriate to a Webelos
            Den. Webelos are not Boy Scouts -- yet.

            And for the record, I am not a big fan of the growing restriction
            on the use of axes, saws, and knives in the Boy Scouts. They are
            tools that the boys need to be properly trained to use, not told
            there is no appropriate use for them (such as my sheath knive with
            the 3+' blade and the Universal Emblem on the snap of the handle
            strap.

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
            Firebird District Committee Member at Large -- Grand Canyon Council
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
            "How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it
            takes a whole box to start a campfire?" -- Email Carlinism
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Scouter Chuck
            Richard Damon wrote... ... Excellent point. Rule for cubs and Webelos with axes: (With apologies to Eddie the Eagle) 1. Stop! 2. Don t Touch! 3. Walk Away.
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Richard Damon wrote...

              > I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard
              > the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety
              > to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use axes.

              Excellent point.
              Rule for cubs and Webelos with axes: (With apologies to Eddie
              the Eagle)
              1. Stop!
              2. Don't Touch!
              3. Walk Away. ;)

              Rule for Adults with axes at a Cub event:
              Handle it properly and carefully. Remember, the boys are watching
              you. They will only remember the things that you do wrong.

              YiS,

              Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
              Firebird District Committee Member at Large -- Grand Canyon Council
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
              "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
              -- Stephen R. Covey
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Teresa Hall
              Thank you, Richard. I agree that axes and saws have no business in Cub Scouts hands, that was never the intent. However, the BALOO is directed towards adults
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you, Richard.

                I agree that axes and saws have no business in Cub Scouts hands, that was
                never the intent. However, the BALOO is directed towards adults with few
                outdoors skills how to conduct a pack campout with boys AND FAMILY MEMBERS.
                The boys are a snap. Take them out and they are happy. Provide a program?
                They'll participate. Leave them without a program? They'll collect bugs and
                have leaf boat races and run for hours. In my experience, the problems in
                pack campouts come from the parents. And not necessarily in any malicious or
                ill-meant way, just parents who haven't pored through G2SS and don't even
                consider why you don't do certain things with Scouts. Educate, educate,
                educate, educate. I'll bet I can find an extra few minutes to tuck some axe
                safety in BALOO next time -- and I'll guarantee we'll have an adult-only
                axeyard pack campout, or a "split it before you come" rule.

                Teresa
                Pack 321 CC, Bluff Park UMC
                Vulcan District Cub Training Chair
                Greater AL Council
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Richard Damon
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: 11/11/02 12:49 AM
                Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

                I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to
                safeguard
                the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe
                safety
                to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use
                axes.

                Richard Damon
                Pack Trainer, Pack 306
                Member of Committee, Troup 302
                Boston Minuteman Council
                Arlington, MA
                --
                rbrdamon@... (Home)
                rdamon@... (Work)



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Chris Jacobi [mailto:jacobi@...]
                Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:26 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

                >The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
                >appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
                >information

                These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
                appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
                sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)

                Chris





                For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Kevin Pate
                ... If you opt for the latter, you need only add about 15 seconds to the BALOO syllabus. For campfire wood, you either use dead wood that you find on the
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- Teresa Hall <tphall@...> wrote:
                  > ... I can find an extra few minutes to tuck some
                  > axe safety in BALOO next time -- and I'll guarantee
                  > we'll have an adult-only axeyard pack campout, or
                  > a "split it before you come" rule.

                  If you opt for the latter, you need only add about 15
                  seconds to the BALOO syllabus.
                  For campfire wood, you either use dead wood that
                  you find on the ground (if permissible at your
                  site location) or you bring in your own wood.
                  In either instance, the safe use of axes should be
                  saved for Boy Scout events.
                  For the protection of all your Scouts and their
                  siblings, split your wood at home. Axes should not
                  be brought to your pack overnighter and a pack
                  overnighter is not the proper environment to wow
                  your pack families with a Paul Bunyon routine.
                  Our next topic is ....

                  Kevin from Norman, America
                  who can't think of one good reason for an
                  axe to be a special guest at a pack overnighter.
                  But then, I've yet to fathom why Cub/Webelos
                  resident camps will sell a hot spark to any
                  Cub/Webelos Scout who wanders into the trading
                  post with a few quarters in his pocket.


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
                  http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.