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Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

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  • Chris Jacobi
    ... These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred sometimes when BOY
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
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      >The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
      >appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
      >information

      These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
      appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
      sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)

      Chris
    • Sean Scott
      Teresa asked: Have any of you added material to the BALOO training? We ve only taught it twice, and very by-the-book. The biggest lack in BALOO, as I
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
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        Teresa asked: Have any of you added material to the BALOO training? We've
        only taught it twice, and very "by-the-book." <snip> The biggest lack in
        BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on appropriate safety guidelines
        for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard information.


        Teresa,

        To answer your second question, we tell our attendees that they should bring
        the wood prepared and that axes and saws are not a Cub Scout age-appropriate
        activity. Pre-cut and split wood is easier to transport to and from camp
        anyway, and doesn't require bringing tools or preparation. Plus, to quote
        the adage, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,"
        having an axe makes one want to chop something, including the native
        vegetation.

        If your parents are splitting wood and leaving the tools lying about, they
        should certainly be educated about the use of axes and saws. If I'm not
        mistaken, it's listed in the G2SS.

        As for adding material to BALOO, the syllabus is a framework from which to
        work. You need to address the learning objectives and cover the material,
        but I believe that it needs to be added to (but not subtracted from) to meet
        your local circumstances. For example, if you live in an area where
        tick-borne illnesses are a concern, it should be a topic of discussion.

        Our district training team actually made significant modifications to the
        BALOO schedule, which we feel improve the flow and the learning that takes
        place. We've taught the class that way several times, as have some of our
        other districts. Several other councils have adopted our enhancements (or a
        variation of them), including Orange County Council, where my son and I were
        privileged to be guest trainers for their BALOO event yesterday.

        Of course, a healthy amount of pizzazz is welcome in any training,
        especially one that's eight hours long! Being a new course, some teams may
        want to get accustomed to the content and flow before they start adapting
        it. We actually dry-ran the training as a team before making the decision to
        change things, and even made changes after the second and third courses we
        presented before settling on the version we use now. If you're interested,
        I'll send a copy of our schedule and trainer's guide as a Word document.

        YiS,
        Sean
      • Richard Damon
        I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety to the
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
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          I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard
          the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety
          to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use axes.

          Richard Damon
          Pack Trainer, Pack 306
          Member of Committee, Troup 302
          Boston Minuteman Council
          Arlington, MA
          --
          rbrdamon@... (Home)
          rdamon@... (Work)



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Chris Jacobi [mailto:jacobi@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:26 AM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

          >The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
          >appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
          >information

          These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
          appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
          sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)

          Chris
        • Thomas G Bingaman
          There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the tote & chip card is for, and the
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 10, 2002
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            There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if
            they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the
            tote & chip card is for, and the requirements that are in the
            "Scout Handbook". We must let our youth mature and become
            adults. They can not be kept from harms way they need
            to be trained to stay safe.

            Tom "B"

            Chris Jacobi wrote:
            >>The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
            >>appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
            >>information
            >
            >
            > These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
            > appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
            > sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)
            >
            > Chris
            >
            >
            >
            > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
            >
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            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Scouter Chuck
            Thomas G Bingaman wrote... ... And that is exactly the point. BALOO training is for Cub leaders, not Boy Scout leaders. These were not Boy Scouts, with Tote
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
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              Thomas G Bingaman wrote...

              > There should be no fear of a youth using a saw or a axe if
              > they are properly trained and supervised. That is what the
              > tote & chip card is for, and the requirements that are in the
              > "Scout Handbook".

              And that is exactly the point. BALOO training is for Cub leaders,
              not Boy Scout leaders. These were not Boy Scouts, with Tote n'
              Chip cards showing they had been properly trained, nor Boy Scout
              Handbooks from which to be trained.

              I'll tell my ax horror story, now:

              I work camporee staff, and a few years ago we had a camporee at one
              of the "local" general purpose Scout Camps.

              As I was walking thru the area that was assigned to my old Troop (I
              was still working with it at the time), I saw 5 young Scouts
              gathered around a piece of log, with one boy in the center flailing
              away at it with a hand-ax. About every 8 or 9 strokes, the edge of
              the ax would actually come in contact with the wood. the other
              boys were no more that 3 feet from him or the wood.

              I let out a deep booming "Who's the Boy Scout here?", and every-
              thing stopped. One boy identified himself as a Boy Scout. The one
              with the ax. I began asking him some questions on ax safety, and
              it soon became clear that he hadn't the slightest idea of what I
              was talking about. Still thinking I was dealing with a young Boy
              Scout, I assigned him some reading on ax safety from the Boy Scout
              Handbook.

              He turned out to be a Webelos, just like the other four. But I had
              made my point, and they knew that in my opinion, someone could have
              been hurt by the ax.

              I also found out that one of the parents calmly observing my
              lecture turned out to be the father of the now scared to death
              Webelos. Talking with him later, he agreed with me completely on
              the ax safety, and remarked that the boy was lucky it was only me
              that caught him. The boy had taken the hand-ax out of the car
              without permission. I never did lift that assignment, BTW. ;)

              > We must let our youth mature and become adults. They can not be
              > kept from harms way they need to be trained to stay safe.

              I am 100% in agreement with you, as long as what they learn is age
              appropriate. Axes and saws are not age appropriate to a Webelos
              Den. Webelos are not Boy Scouts -- yet.

              And for the record, I am not a big fan of the growing restriction
              on the use of axes, saws, and knives in the Boy Scouts. They are
              tools that the boys need to be properly trained to use, not told
              there is no appropriate use for them (such as my sheath knive with
              the 3+' blade and the Universal Emblem on the snap of the handle
              strap.

              YiS,

              Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
              Firebird District Committee Member at Large -- Grand Canyon Council
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
              "How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it
              takes a whole box to start a campfire?" -- Email Carlinism
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Scouter Chuck
              Richard Damon wrote... ... Excellent point. Rule for cubs and Webelos with axes: (With apologies to Eddie the Eagle) 1. Stop! 2. Don t Touch! 3. Walk Away.
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
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                Richard Damon wrote...

                > I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to safeguard
                > the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe safety
                > to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use axes.

                Excellent point.
                Rule for cubs and Webelos with axes: (With apologies to Eddie
                the Eagle)
                1. Stop!
                2. Don't Touch!
                3. Walk Away. ;)

                Rule for Adults with axes at a Cub event:
                Handle it properly and carefully. Remember, the boys are watching
                you. They will only remember the things that you do wrong.

                YiS,

                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
                Firebird District Committee Member at Large -- Grand Canyon Council
                -------------------------------------------------------------------
                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                -- Stephen R. Covey
                -------------------------------------------------------------------
              • Teresa Hall
                Thank you, Richard. I agree that axes and saws have no business in Cub Scouts hands, that was never the intent. However, the BALOO is directed towards adults
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
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                  Thank you, Richard.

                  I agree that axes and saws have no business in Cub Scouts hands, that was
                  never the intent. However, the BALOO is directed towards adults with few
                  outdoors skills how to conduct a pack campout with boys AND FAMILY MEMBERS.
                  The boys are a snap. Take them out and they are happy. Provide a program?
                  They'll participate. Leave them without a program? They'll collect bugs and
                  have leaf boat races and run for hours. In my experience, the problems in
                  pack campouts come from the parents. And not necessarily in any malicious or
                  ill-meant way, just parents who haven't pored through G2SS and don't even
                  consider why you don't do certain things with Scouts. Educate, educate,
                  educate, educate. I'll bet I can find an extra few minutes to tuck some axe
                  safety in BALOO next time -- and I'll guarantee we'll have an adult-only
                  axeyard pack campout, or a "split it before you come" rule.

                  Teresa
                  Pack 321 CC, Bluff Park UMC
                  Vulcan District Cub Training Chair
                  Greater AL Council
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Richard Damon
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 11/11/02 12:49 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

                  I think the issue is rules for the adults using axes and saws to
                  safeguard
                  the children. I could see a desire to teach some of the basic of axe
                  safety
                  to the adults. It also serves to remind them that the cubs don't use
                  axes.

                  Richard Damon
                  Pack Trainer, Pack 306
                  Member of Committee, Troup 302
                  Boston Minuteman Council
                  Arlington, MA
                  --
                  rbrdamon@... (Home)
                  rdamon@... (Work)



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Chris Jacobi [mailto:jacobi@...]
                  Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:26 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Another BALOO question

                  >The biggest lack in BALOO, as I see it tonight, is information on
                  >appropriate safety guidelines for uses of axes and saws -- ie, woodyard
                  >information

                  These are not part of BALOO training because these are not age
                  appropriate activities for cub scouts. (Personally I even get scarred
                  sometimes when BOY scouts use axes)

                  Chris





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                • Kevin Pate
                  ... If you opt for the latter, you need only add about 15 seconds to the BALOO syllabus. For campfire wood, you either use dead wood that you find on the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 11, 2002
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                    --- Teresa Hall <tphall@...> wrote:
                    > ... I can find an extra few minutes to tuck some
                    > axe safety in BALOO next time -- and I'll guarantee
                    > we'll have an adult-only axeyard pack campout, or
                    > a "split it before you come" rule.

                    If you opt for the latter, you need only add about 15
                    seconds to the BALOO syllabus.
                    For campfire wood, you either use dead wood that
                    you find on the ground (if permissible at your
                    site location) or you bring in your own wood.
                    In either instance, the safe use of axes should be
                    saved for Boy Scout events.
                    For the protection of all your Scouts and their
                    siblings, split your wood at home. Axes should not
                    be brought to your pack overnighter and a pack
                    overnighter is not the proper environment to wow
                    your pack families with a Paul Bunyon routine.
                    Our next topic is ....

                    Kevin from Norman, America
                    who can't think of one good reason for an
                    axe to be a special guest at a pack overnighter.
                    But then, I've yet to fathom why Cub/Webelos
                    resident camps will sell a hot spark to any
                    Cub/Webelos Scout who wanders into the trading
                    post with a few quarters in his pocket.


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