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Re: [Scouter_T] Leader Eligibility Question

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  • Michael Rouse
    Sean, I came up against the problem as well. I don t know your parent but I feel that his CURRENT lifestyle should be considered as well. The parent in our
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 23, 2002
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      Sean,

      I came up against the problem as well. I don't know your parent but I feel that his CURRENT lifestyle should be considered as well.

      The parent in our pack had been booted out of the military for drug use and I thought she was clean but still could see where she put herself in situations that would possibly cause difficulty. Also her attitude was a problem, she saw nothing wrong with what she had done and that is what she was teaching her son.

      I know this doesn't really answer your question but maybe it gives you something else to consider.

      Connie Rouse


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • daveloomis
      You ve not said what your Chartered Organization Representative or Chartered Organization said about the person. If the person can explain that the conviction
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 24, 2002
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        You've not said what your Chartered Organization
        Representative or Chartered Organization said about the person. If
        the person can explain that the conviction was some time ago and has a
        clean record, run it through BSA and see what happens. This way
        you'll have something solid to go on, not just opinions.

        If your other people feel strongly enough about this person,
        include letters of recommendation with the application. This may sway
        the balance in the applicant's favor.

        Dave

        --- In scouter_t@y..., "Sean Scott" <sscott@d...> wrote:
        > My apologies for the cross post, but I've been asked a question I
        don't know the answer for. Go figure!
        >
        > A parent in our district has filled out an application to be a den
        leader, but has a conviction for drug possession eight years ago. The
        committee chair for his pack initially told him no. Subsequently, one
        of our DE's has said that after being "clean" for ten years, he may
        register.

        To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

        Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
        1094 Woodbury Ave. (603) 431 5342
        Portsmouth, NH 03801-3225
      • Ken Todd
        Sean, I have never seen a written policy on how long the professionals require an adult to wait after a drug conviction before they will sign their approval on
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 24, 2002
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          Sean,

          I have never seen a written policy on how long the professionals
          require an adult to wait after a drug conviction before they will sign
          their approval on the form. From what you have said, it seems to vary,
          possibly by Council or the opinion of the various professionals.

          There are 2 other signatures required on the application as well,
          Committee Chair and Charter Organization Representative.

          If at any step in the process one of the 3 approvers says "no" then the
          application is declined. I have never heard of the BSA forcing a unit
          to accept an adult who they do not belive should be a leader based on
          their standards.

          Basically, the minimum requirements of the BSA are on the application.
          If a Unit or Charter Organization has a higher standard, then their
          standard prevails for their Unit(s). For example, some Charter
          Organizations require that certain positions with a unit be filed by
          members of the organization, and some Charter Organizations will not
          approve female leaders in positions other than the Committee.

          In this case, the Committee Chair has indicated that they do not
          approve of this adult becoming a leader in their unit. That is their
          right and the application stops at that point.

          Yours in Scouting,
          Ken
          --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          Message: 1
          Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700
          From: "Sean Scott" <sscott@...>
          Subject: Leader Eligibility Question

          ... The committee chair for his pack initially told him no. ...

          Thanks in advance for your wisdom,
          Sean

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        • RitterME
          On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700, Sean Scott wrote: What I m looking for is referenceable, quotable, documented BSA policy, NOT
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 25, 2002
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            On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700, "Sean Scott"
            <sscott@...> wrote:
            <snip>
            What I'm looking for is referenceable, quotable, documented BSA
            policy, NOT opinion or guesswork or assumption, that supports this
            individual being allowed or prevented from becoming a leader.
            </snip>

            I'm not certain you'll find any such thing. What I'm aware of is:

            (a) There is (or was at one time) a BSA restricted "policy /
            prodedure" document available to Council Executives, which I *think*
            is called Maintaining Membership Standards. Ask your CE/DE to check
            that specific documentation. It may or may not help.

            (b) A few years ago the unit recharter materials included a letter
            to all unit committee chairs and unit leaders about it being the
            responsibility of the UNIT to conduct reference checks and criminal
            record checks before submitting the individual's application to the
            council office.

            (c) The law varies from state to state. Some councils in certain
            states are required by law to conduct criminal record checks for all
            applicants. In addition to requiring the council to conduct the
            record checks, the law probably documents what convictions are
            barriers to registration and for how long ... which may also vary
            from state to state. Other councils in other states leave records
            checks to the discretion of the unit leadership.

            (d) Policies may also vary from council to council. It is possible
            that your council's executive board may have established policies
            that are more restrictive than other council's in your state.

            In the absense of anything more definitive, I would look to the
            membership application itself. It requires three signatures: the
            committee chairman, the chartered organization representative, and
            the council executive (or representative thereof). If either the CC
            or COR say "no", and in this case the CC in question "initially"
            said "no", I think that ends the matter ... at least until / unless
            that CC changes his / her mind or is replaced. If those two
            signatories both say "yes", then forward the application to the
            council office, let the council's registrar and executives handle
            it. (For all you should know, it could / should be "business as
            usual" for them.) Reminder: At reregistration time, either the CC
            or the COR can always cross a name off the roster ... there's no
            guarantee of continued registration.

            Personally, I would *hope* that the decision makers involved would
            base their decision on the individual in question. TALK to the
            person. My personal opinion on suitability would vary depending on
            whether or not the person in question was a parent at the time the
            offense took place, whether or not the person is a parent now,
            whether the person is applying for a committee position (not
            necessarily in direct contact with the Cubs) or a den leader
            position (direct contact), what that person's attitude is NOW to
            his/her actions THEN, etc. And my opinion would be influenced by
            many other CURRENT factors ... does the person CURRENTLY: smoke,
            swear, drink excessively, have too many traffic citations, etc.
            Personally, I would *not* view the note of conviction on the
            application as a disqualifier. Look at it positively ... the person
            filled in the application honestly, truthfully. That tells me
            something. The conviction itself is a negative influence; admitting
            it is a positive influence ... net position ... neutral. So,
            evaluate the other factors, the TOTAL PICTURE.

            My $.05 worth;
            Mark Ritter
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