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Leader Eligibility Question

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  • Sean Scott
    My apologies for the cross post, but I ve been asked a question I don t know the answer for. Go figure! A parent in our district has filled out an application
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 23, 2002
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      My apologies for the cross post, but I've been asked a question I don't know the answer for. Go figure!

      A parent in our district has filled out an application to be a den leader, but has a conviction for drug possession eight years ago. The committee chair for his pack initially told him no. Subsequently, one of our DE's has said that after being "clean" for ten years, he may register. Another professional said that as long as the conviction was not a child related offense he can register regardless of when the conviction was. Yet another professional said that the waiting period is seven years regardless of the offense. Finally, a fourth professional said that it's up to the COR to decide.

      So much for our professionals being vast cauldrons of definitive knowledge...

      What I'm looking for is referenceable, quotable, documented BSA policy, NOT opinion or guesswork or assumption, that supports this individual being allowed or prevented from becoming a leader. Surely someone out there can direct me to a snippet of information that can resolve this dilemma!

      Thanks in advance for your wisdom,
      Sean


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Rouse
      Sean, I came up against the problem as well. I don t know your parent but I feel that his CURRENT lifestyle should be considered as well. The parent in our
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 23, 2002
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        Sean,

        I came up against the problem as well. I don't know your parent but I feel that his CURRENT lifestyle should be considered as well.

        The parent in our pack had been booted out of the military for drug use and I thought she was clean but still could see where she put herself in situations that would possibly cause difficulty. Also her attitude was a problem, she saw nothing wrong with what she had done and that is what she was teaching her son.

        I know this doesn't really answer your question but maybe it gives you something else to consider.

        Connie Rouse


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • daveloomis
        You ve not said what your Chartered Organization Representative or Chartered Organization said about the person. If the person can explain that the conviction
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 24, 2002
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          You've not said what your Chartered Organization
          Representative or Chartered Organization said about the person. If
          the person can explain that the conviction was some time ago and has a
          clean record, run it through BSA and see what happens. This way
          you'll have something solid to go on, not just opinions.

          If your other people feel strongly enough about this person,
          include letters of recommendation with the application. This may sway
          the balance in the applicant's favor.

          Dave

          --- In scouter_t@y..., "Sean Scott" <sscott@d...> wrote:
          > My apologies for the cross post, but I've been asked a question I
          don't know the answer for. Go figure!
          >
          > A parent in our district has filled out an application to be a den
          leader, but has a conviction for drug possession eight years ago. The
          committee chair for his pack initially told him no. Subsequently, one
          of our DE's has said that after being "clean" for ten years, he may
          register.

          To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

          Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
          1094 Woodbury Ave. (603) 431 5342
          Portsmouth, NH 03801-3225
        • Ken Todd
          Sean, I have never seen a written policy on how long the professionals require an adult to wait after a drug conviction before they will sign their approval on
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 24, 2002
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            Sean,

            I have never seen a written policy on how long the professionals
            require an adult to wait after a drug conviction before they will sign
            their approval on the form. From what you have said, it seems to vary,
            possibly by Council or the opinion of the various professionals.

            There are 2 other signatures required on the application as well,
            Committee Chair and Charter Organization Representative.

            If at any step in the process one of the 3 approvers says "no" then the
            application is declined. I have never heard of the BSA forcing a unit
            to accept an adult who they do not belive should be a leader based on
            their standards.

            Basically, the minimum requirements of the BSA are on the application.
            If a Unit or Charter Organization has a higher standard, then their
            standard prevails for their Unit(s). For example, some Charter
            Organizations require that certain positions with a unit be filed by
            members of the organization, and some Charter Organizations will not
            approve female leaders in positions other than the Committee.

            In this case, the Committee Chair has indicated that they do not
            approve of this adult becoming a leader in their unit. That is their
            right and the application stops at that point.

            Yours in Scouting,
            Ken
            --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            Message: 1
            Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700
            From: "Sean Scott" <sscott@...>
            Subject: Leader Eligibility Question

            ... The committee chair for his pack initially told him no. ...

            Thanks in advance for your wisdom,
            Sean

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          • RitterME
            On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700, Sean Scott wrote: What I m looking for is referenceable, quotable, documented BSA policy, NOT
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 25, 2002
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              On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:10:52 -0700, "Sean Scott"
              <sscott@...> wrote:
              <snip>
              What I'm looking for is referenceable, quotable, documented BSA
              policy, NOT opinion or guesswork or assumption, that supports this
              individual being allowed or prevented from becoming a leader.
              </snip>

              I'm not certain you'll find any such thing. What I'm aware of is:

              (a) There is (or was at one time) a BSA restricted "policy /
              prodedure" document available to Council Executives, which I *think*
              is called Maintaining Membership Standards. Ask your CE/DE to check
              that specific documentation. It may or may not help.

              (b) A few years ago the unit recharter materials included a letter
              to all unit committee chairs and unit leaders about it being the
              responsibility of the UNIT to conduct reference checks and criminal
              record checks before submitting the individual's application to the
              council office.

              (c) The law varies from state to state. Some councils in certain
              states are required by law to conduct criminal record checks for all
              applicants. In addition to requiring the council to conduct the
              record checks, the law probably documents what convictions are
              barriers to registration and for how long ... which may also vary
              from state to state. Other councils in other states leave records
              checks to the discretion of the unit leadership.

              (d) Policies may also vary from council to council. It is possible
              that your council's executive board may have established policies
              that are more restrictive than other council's in your state.

              In the absense of anything more definitive, I would look to the
              membership application itself. It requires three signatures: the
              committee chairman, the chartered organization representative, and
              the council executive (or representative thereof). If either the CC
              or COR say "no", and in this case the CC in question "initially"
              said "no", I think that ends the matter ... at least until / unless
              that CC changes his / her mind or is replaced. If those two
              signatories both say "yes", then forward the application to the
              council office, let the council's registrar and executives handle
              it. (For all you should know, it could / should be "business as
              usual" for them.) Reminder: At reregistration time, either the CC
              or the COR can always cross a name off the roster ... there's no
              guarantee of continued registration.

              Personally, I would *hope* that the decision makers involved would
              base their decision on the individual in question. TALK to the
              person. My personal opinion on suitability would vary depending on
              whether or not the person in question was a parent at the time the
              offense took place, whether or not the person is a parent now,
              whether the person is applying for a committee position (not
              necessarily in direct contact with the Cubs) or a den leader
              position (direct contact), what that person's attitude is NOW to
              his/her actions THEN, etc. And my opinion would be influenced by
              many other CURRENT factors ... does the person CURRENTLY: smoke,
              swear, drink excessively, have too many traffic citations, etc.
              Personally, I would *not* view the note of conviction on the
              application as a disqualifier. Look at it positively ... the person
              filled in the application honestly, truthfully. That tells me
              something. The conviction itself is a negative influence; admitting
              it is a positive influence ... net position ... neutral. So,
              evaluate the other factors, the TOTAL PICTURE.

              My $.05 worth;
              Mark Ritter
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