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Re: Cub Scout Shooting Sports

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  • Mike
    ... the ... Activities. ... with ... allow for ... School ... packs at ... tentative ... clarifications ... shooting ... willing ... unit. My ... of ... unit
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
      --- In scouter_t@y..., Lloyd Solis <paperclp@s...> wrote:
      > We've 'kicked-around' the ideas of cub scout packs and BB guns in
      the
      > last few months on several lists.
      > We know that G2SS designates this as District and Council
      Activities.
      > With the exceptions of Cub Day Camp or a multiple overnight camping
      > experience, there have been no other means of providing the boys
      with
      > the ability to earn the Belt Loop for shooting.
      > I think I've heard that BSA is modifying these restrictions to
      allow for
      > BB gun shooting on pack/den levels.
      > As I recall SHAC is now conducting BB gun training for cub scout age
      > youth at council camps that will provide for the earning of the belt
      > loop.
      > Our council's shooting sports director (NRA & BSA National Camp
      School
      > trained) is providing training to adults wishing to host dens &
      packs at
      > council camp in this regard. Our Scout Executive has given the
      tentative
      > approval to proceed in planning. A letter requesting some
      clarifications
      > from BSA-Irving, Tx has not been answered - yet.
      > We want to provide for a 'multi-level qualified adult presence' by
      > having out campmasters as well as other adults certified. Our
      shooting
      > sports director is willing to certify adults if those adults are
      willing
      > to provide the leadership to multiple units, not just their own
      unit. My
      > thought is that the campmaster should be responsible for opening &
      > closing the range, observing the range proceedings until satisfied
      of
      > the proper and safe implementations of the program, and periodically
      > checking back at the range.
      > Are any of your councils currently providing BB gun experiences on
      unit
      > levels?
      > What special written provisions have you published to insure
      compliance
      > with safety?
      >
      > YiS
      > Lloyd Solis

      Our Council has a relatively new, but very active shooting sports
      program. I am an NRA certified instructor for rifle, muzzleloader
      and shotgun, (our shooting sports director is an NRA Training
      Councilor). We have trained about 40 people throughout the council
      who are NRA cerified instructors.
      With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events where
      Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each of
      these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
      instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles. All
      boys had one to one adult shooter ratio with a range master and two
      instructors floating on the line. Safety is of utmost importance.
      All boys were run through a 45 minute safety and handling course. We
      used eye and ear protection (get the kids used to wearing everthing
      right from the start). Significant preparation went into these
      events to insure that they were run safely, the kids learned and had
      fun. Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
      of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into a
      pack or den run shooting event. There is always one adult who says I
      hgave been hunting since I was 8 years old and I know what to do as
      he is waving a loded BB gun at a group of boys. We won't let that
      happen, period!!
      Our council has sent the camp ranger to get certified and we are
      attempting to get the campmasters cerified so they are comfortable
      with the range being used by units. Everyone who has taken the NRA
      courses is encouraged to serve at summer camp and as merit badge
      councelors for shooting sports. Last year we ran open shoot for
      shotgun and black powder one day a week at each summer camp session,
      and got a number of boys their shotgun merit badge.
      A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with a
      rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained people
      to run the program in a safe environment.
      Enough preaching form me.

      YIS
      Mike Rocheleau
      Scoutmaster Troop 4 Wallingford CT
      Jambo '01 - Buckskin Games-Black Powder
      And a good ole Buffalo too!
    • Wendell Brown
      ... I want to make a clarification here. The Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp guide states that ALL Cub Scouts (even WEBELOS
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
        On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:08:14 -0000, Mike wrote:

        >With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events where
        >Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each of
        >these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
        >instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles.

        I want to make a clarification here. The 'Shooting Sports for Cub
        Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp' guide states that ALL Cub
        Scouts (even WEBELOS scouts) are supposed to use BB guns - specifically
        BB guns that are rated LESS than 350fps. Almost all "air rifles" are
        rated in excess of 350fps, so you have to be especially careful when
        using this type of gun that it CANNOT exceed this speed and that it is
        not intended to use pellets.

        >Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
        >of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into a
        >pack or den run shooting event.

        You and me both.

        >A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with a
        >rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained people
        >to run the program in a safe environment.

        All of the literature I have seen says that Cub Scouts are to shoot
        ONLY at Council or District events. I can see that a Council or
        District COULD, under the existing rules, create an event (other than
        the "normal" events like day camp, weekend camp, resident camp, etc.)
        where BB guns could be shot (as long as the range layout minimally
        meets the BB gun range specifications and adequate trained instructors
        are present). However, as the rules currently read I don't see an
        approved way for a den or a pack to shoot - even at a gun club.



        Wendell Brown
        Scouting The Net -- http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
        A Mini-Yahoo for the scouting community.
      • Mike
        ... where ... of ... specifically ... are ... is ... Wendell, you are correct and these air rifles were properly rated, the Cubs shot Daisy s. ... a ... a ...
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
          --- In scouter_t@y..., "Wendell Brown" <wbrown@a...> wrote:
          > On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:08:14 -0000, Mike wrote:
          >
          > >With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events
          where
          > >Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each
          of
          > >these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
          > >instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles.
          >
          > I want to make a clarification here. The 'Shooting Sports for Cub
          > Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp' guide states that ALL Cub
          > Scouts (even WEBELOS scouts) are supposed to use BB guns -
          specifically
          > BB guns that are rated LESS than 350fps. Almost all "air rifles"
          are
          > rated in excess of 350fps, so you have to be especially careful when
          > using this type of gun that it CANNOT exceed this speed and that it
          is
          > not intended to use pellets.

          Wendell, you are correct and these air rifles were properly rated,
          the Cubs shot Daisy's.

          >
          > >Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
          > >of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into
          a
          > >pack or den run shooting event.
          >
          > You and me both.
          >
          > >A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with
          a
          > >rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained
          people
          > >to run the program in a safe environment.
          >
          > All of the literature I have seen says that Cub Scouts are to shoot
          > ONLY at Council or District events. I can see that a Council or
          > District COULD, under the existing rules, create an event (other
          than
          > the "normal" events like day camp, weekend camp, resident camp,
          etc.)
          > where BB guns could be shot (as long as the range layout minimally
          > meets the BB gun range specifications and adequate trained
          instructors
          > are present). However, as the rules currently read I don't see an
          > approved way for a den or a pack to shoot - even at a gun club.
          >
          >

          We utilized the facilites of a gun club for a district event
          called "Shoot for the Olympics which we run biennially. We even
          received a write-up in Scouting Magazine for this event. I did not
          mean to imply a den or pack event. Thanks for the clarification.

          The real point I was trying to drive home is that I don't beleve
          there is any way to insure a safe, compliant shooting program at the
          pack or den level.
          >
          >
          YIS

          Mike Rocheleau
        • danielgrummert
          Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550. Anyone seen one? dan
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
            Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
            Anyone seen one?
            dan
          • gundamknt@yahoo.com
            Yep I ve got one. Ill get it scanned and upload it. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel ... From: danielgrummert
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
              Yep I've got one. Ill get it scanned and upload it.

              Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

              -----Original Message-----
              From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

              Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
              To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


              Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
              Anyone seen one?
              dan




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • chadc@charter.net
              Dan, The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn t made its way down to my Council committee).
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
                Dan,

                The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.

                I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide specifics.

                - Chad
                Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                -----Original Message-----
                From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

                Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                Anyone seen one?
                dan




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • gundamknt@yahoo.com
                I got mine at rangemaster training Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel ... From: chadc@charter.net Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05 To:
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
                  I got mine at rangemaster training
                  Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: chadc@...

                  Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                  Dan,

                  The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.

                  I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide specifics.

                  - Chad
                  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

                  Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                  Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                  Anyone seen one?
                  dan




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Chad C. Cooper
                  As the BSA shooting sport trainer for my Council (Norther Star in Minnesota), I distribute a copy of this booklet to my course attendees. But, it comes with
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 27, 2009
                    As the BSA shooting sport trainer for my Council (Norther Star in
                    Minnesota), I distribute a copy of this booklet to my course attendees.
                    But, it comes with the following admonitions:
                    1) They are receiving it under the authority of our Council because they
                    are attending the training.
                    2) They are not authorized to distribute it on their own.

                    I would encourage you to seek your DE or council advisor's input before
                    distributing BSA's material that they do not make available through any
                    public channels. You are most certainly violating copyright.

                    - Chad Cooper
                    Chief Black Dog District
                    Northern Star Council
                    Apple Valley, MN

                    gundamknt@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I got mine at rangemaster training
                    > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: chadc@... <mailto:chadc%40charter.net>
                    >
                    > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05
                    > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports
                    >
                    > Dan,
                    >
                    > The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has
                    > been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my
                    > Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I
                    > believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.
                    >
                    > I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide
                    > specifics.
                    >
                    > - Chad
                    > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...
                    > <mailto:dangrummert%40suddenlink.net>>
                    >
                    > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                    > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports
                    >
                    > Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                    > Anyone seen one?
                    > dan
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
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