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Re:Cub Scout Shooting Sports

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  • Lorie McGraw
    ... Our Council is not doing Unit-level BB gun shooting, but our district offers 4-5 opportunities during a year for the boys to earn the BB gun belt loop and
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
      >
      > From: Lloyd Solis <paperclp@...>
      >Subject: Cub Scout Shooting Sports
      >
      >We've 'kicked-around' the ideas of cub scout packs and BB guns in the
      >last few months on several lists.
      > We know that G2SS designates this as District and Council Activities.
      >With the exceptions of Cub Day Camp or a multiple overnight camping
      >experience, there have been no other means of providing the boys with
      >the ability to earn the Belt Loop for shooting.
      >I think I've heard that BSA is modifying these restrictions to allow for
      >BB gun shooting on pack/den levels.

      Our Council is not doing Unit-level BB gun shooting, but our district
      offers 4-5 opportunities during a year for the boys to earn the BB gun belt
      loop and the Archery belt loop at District/council events.
      District level:
      one-day (9-4) Cuboree
      2 Day Camps (5 day duration)
      Council level
      Cub/Partner overnighter (1 night camping)
      Family Camping overnighter (1 night camping) (2 in a year)
      3 day summer camp (2 nights)

      I am very much against the pack/den-level teaching of this sport,
      regardless of what National may be proposing. The main reason is
      Safety. But also, the reason that many of our leaders take their dens to
      Day Camp and Cuboree is to get the BB/Archery belt loops, and in the
      process meet the whole 'gang' of Scouts and Scouters in the district and
      council, making them better leaders and their boys better cubs.

      I do have BB guns at my house and have taught my own sons to shoot, but as
      a den leader I took my den to Cuboree and Day Camp to learn and earn.

      We have never had an injury in our district in the last 8 years from BBs or
      Archery (the council did have one minor injury a few years back, before the
      use of goggles was mandatory. Luckily it was minor.)

      BTW, I have run the range for 6+ years and see tremendous Safety violation
      among parent/leaders who >swear< that they have been trained in the BSA
      Shooting Safety.
      Cheers
      Lorie McGraw
      Columbia SC
      Wearing many hats for Scouting
    • Mike
      ... the ... Activities. ... with ... allow for ... School ... packs at ... tentative ... clarifications ... shooting ... willing ... unit. My ... of ... unit
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
        --- In scouter_t@y..., Lloyd Solis <paperclp@s...> wrote:
        > We've 'kicked-around' the ideas of cub scout packs and BB guns in
        the
        > last few months on several lists.
        > We know that G2SS designates this as District and Council
        Activities.
        > With the exceptions of Cub Day Camp or a multiple overnight camping
        > experience, there have been no other means of providing the boys
        with
        > the ability to earn the Belt Loop for shooting.
        > I think I've heard that BSA is modifying these restrictions to
        allow for
        > BB gun shooting on pack/den levels.
        > As I recall SHAC is now conducting BB gun training for cub scout age
        > youth at council camps that will provide for the earning of the belt
        > loop.
        > Our council's shooting sports director (NRA & BSA National Camp
        School
        > trained) is providing training to adults wishing to host dens &
        packs at
        > council camp in this regard. Our Scout Executive has given the
        tentative
        > approval to proceed in planning. A letter requesting some
        clarifications
        > from BSA-Irving, Tx has not been answered - yet.
        > We want to provide for a 'multi-level qualified adult presence' by
        > having out campmasters as well as other adults certified. Our
        shooting
        > sports director is willing to certify adults if those adults are
        willing
        > to provide the leadership to multiple units, not just their own
        unit. My
        > thought is that the campmaster should be responsible for opening &
        > closing the range, observing the range proceedings until satisfied
        of
        > the proper and safe implementations of the program, and periodically
        > checking back at the range.
        > Are any of your councils currently providing BB gun experiences on
        unit
        > levels?
        > What special written provisions have you published to insure
        compliance
        > with safety?
        >
        > YiS
        > Lloyd Solis

        Our Council has a relatively new, but very active shooting sports
        program. I am an NRA certified instructor for rifle, muzzleloader
        and shotgun, (our shooting sports director is an NRA Training
        Councilor). We have trained about 40 people throughout the council
        who are NRA cerified instructors.
        With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events where
        Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each of
        these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
        instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles. All
        boys had one to one adult shooter ratio with a range master and two
        instructors floating on the line. Safety is of utmost importance.
        All boys were run through a 45 minute safety and handling course. We
        used eye and ear protection (get the kids used to wearing everthing
        right from the start). Significant preparation went into these
        events to insure that they were run safely, the kids learned and had
        fun. Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
        of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into a
        pack or den run shooting event. There is always one adult who says I
        hgave been hunting since I was 8 years old and I know what to do as
        he is waving a loded BB gun at a group of boys. We won't let that
        happen, period!!
        Our council has sent the camp ranger to get certified and we are
        attempting to get the campmasters cerified so they are comfortable
        with the range being used by units. Everyone who has taken the NRA
        courses is encouraged to serve at summer camp and as merit badge
        councelors for shooting sports. Last year we ran open shoot for
        shotgun and black powder one day a week at each summer camp session,
        and got a number of boys their shotgun merit badge.
        A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with a
        rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained people
        to run the program in a safe environment.
        Enough preaching form me.

        YIS
        Mike Rocheleau
        Scoutmaster Troop 4 Wallingford CT
        Jambo '01 - Buckskin Games-Black Powder
        And a good ole Buffalo too!
      • Wendell Brown
        ... I want to make a clarification here. The Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp guide states that ALL Cub Scouts (even WEBELOS
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
          On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:08:14 -0000, Mike wrote:

          >With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events where
          >Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each of
          >these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
          >instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles.

          I want to make a clarification here. The 'Shooting Sports for Cub
          Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp' guide states that ALL Cub
          Scouts (even WEBELOS scouts) are supposed to use BB guns - specifically
          BB guns that are rated LESS than 350fps. Almost all "air rifles" are
          rated in excess of 350fps, so you have to be especially careful when
          using this type of gun that it CANNOT exceed this speed and that it is
          not intended to use pellets.

          >Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
          >of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into a
          >pack or den run shooting event.

          You and me both.

          >A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with a
          >rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained people
          >to run the program in a safe environment.

          All of the literature I have seen says that Cub Scouts are to shoot
          ONLY at Council or District events. I can see that a Council or
          District COULD, under the existing rules, create an event (other than
          the "normal" events like day camp, weekend camp, resident camp, etc.)
          where BB guns could be shot (as long as the range layout minimally
          meets the BB gun range specifications and adequate trained instructors
          are present). However, as the rules currently read I don't see an
          approved way for a den or a pack to shoot - even at a gun club.



          Wendell Brown
          Scouting The Net -- http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
          A Mini-Yahoo for the scouting community.
        • Mike
          ... where ... of ... specifically ... are ... is ... Wendell, you are correct and these air rifles were properly rated, the Cubs shot Daisy s. ... a ... a ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 5, 2001
            --- In scouter_t@y..., "Wendell Brown" <wbrown@a...> wrote:
            > On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:08:14 -0000, Mike wrote:
            >
            > >With regards to the Cub program, last year we ran three events
            where
            > >Cub Scouts were allowed to shoot, including a BB gun derby. Each
            of
            > >these events was staffed by trained adults and NRA Certified
            > >instructors. WEBELO scouts were allowed to fire air rifles.
            >
            > I want to make a clarification here. The 'Shooting Sports for Cub
            > Scouts, Webelos Scouts & Parents in Camp' guide states that ALL Cub
            > Scouts (even WEBELOS scouts) are supposed to use BB guns -
            specifically
            > BB guns that are rated LESS than 350fps. Almost all "air rifles"
            are
            > rated in excess of 350fps, so you have to be especially careful when
            > using this type of gun that it CANNOT exceed this speed and that it
            is
            > not intended to use pellets.

            Wendell, you are correct and these air rifles were properly rated,
            the Cubs shot Daisy's.

            >
            > >Maybe I am a little skeptical, but I am not sure the same level
            > >of training, certification, planning and preparation would go into
            a
            > >pack or den run shooting event.
            >
            > You and me both.
            >
            > >A suggestion to get cubs their belt loops would be to hook up with
            a
            > >rod and gun club or a junior rifle club and get fully trained
            people
            > >to run the program in a safe environment.
            >
            > All of the literature I have seen says that Cub Scouts are to shoot
            > ONLY at Council or District events. I can see that a Council or
            > District COULD, under the existing rules, create an event (other
            than
            > the "normal" events like day camp, weekend camp, resident camp,
            etc.)
            > where BB guns could be shot (as long as the range layout minimally
            > meets the BB gun range specifications and adequate trained
            instructors
            > are present). However, as the rules currently read I don't see an
            > approved way for a den or a pack to shoot - even at a gun club.
            >
            >

            We utilized the facilites of a gun club for a district event
            called "Shoot for the Olympics which we run biennially. We even
            received a write-up in Scouting Magazine for this event. I did not
            mean to imply a den or pack event. Thanks for the clarification.

            The real point I was trying to drive home is that I don't beleve
            there is any way to insure a safe, compliant shooting program at the
            pack or den level.
            >
            >
            YIS

            Mike Rocheleau
          • danielgrummert
            Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550. Anyone seen one? dan
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
              Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
              Anyone seen one?
              dan
            • gundamknt@yahoo.com
              Yep I ve got one. Ill get it scanned and upload it. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel ... From: danielgrummert
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
                Yep I've got one. Ill get it scanned and upload it.

                Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

                -----Original Message-----
                From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

                Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                Anyone seen one?
                dan




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • chadc@charter.net
                Dan, The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn t made its way down to my Council committee).
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
                  Dan,

                  The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.

                  I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide specifics.

                  - Chad
                  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

                  Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                  Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                  Anyone seen one?
                  dan




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gundamknt@yahoo.com
                  I got mine at rangemaster training Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel ... From: chadc@charter.net Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05 To:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 26, 2009
                    I got mine at rangemaster training
                    Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: chadc@...

                    Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05
                    To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                    Dan,

                    The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.

                    I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide specifics.

                    - Chad
                    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...>

                    Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                    To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports


                    Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                    Anyone seen one?
                    dan




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chad C. Cooper
                    As the BSA shooting sport trainer for my Council (Norther Star in Minnesota), I distribute a copy of this booklet to my course attendees. But, it comes with
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 27, 2009
                      As the BSA shooting sport trainer for my Council (Norther Star in
                      Minnesota), I distribute a copy of this booklet to my course attendees.
                      But, it comes with the following admonitions:
                      1) They are receiving it under the authority of our Council because they
                      are attending the training.
                      2) They are not authorized to distribute it on their own.

                      I would encourage you to seek your DE or council advisor's input before
                      distributing BSA's material that they do not make available through any
                      public channels. You are most certainly violating copyright.

                      - Chad Cooper
                      Chief Black Dog District
                      Northern Star Council
                      Apple Valley, MN

                      gundamknt@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I got mine at rangemaster training
                      > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: chadc@... <mailto:chadc%40charter.net>
                      >
                      > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:15:05
                      > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports
                      >
                      > Dan,
                      >
                      > The SSfCC is considered a restricted document by BSA (unless there has
                      > been a recent policy change that hasn't made its way down to my
                      > Council committee). It is only available to council representatives. I
                      > believe that BSA would frown on creating electronic copies.
                      >
                      > I do have a hard copy and would be glad to answer questions or provide
                      > specifics.
                      >
                      > - Chad
                      > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: "danielgrummert" <dangrummert@...
                      > <mailto:dangrummert%40suddenlink.net>>
                      >
                      > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:17:13
                      > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Scout Shooting Sports
                      >
                      > Looking fo ra copy of Shooting Sports for Cub Scouting #13-550.
                      > Anyone seen one?
                      > dan
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
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