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Re: [Scouter_T] Minimum training session

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  • Kevin Pate
    I don t have a minimum number for Cub Basic, and we ve had groups as small as what Neil described more than once in any given year. But, the key is, would
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 2, 2001
      I don't have a minimum number for Cub Basic, and we've
      had groups as small as what Neil described more than
      once in any given year. But, the key is, would those
      few leaders have been trained if that particular class
      were not held. I've had numerous times over the past
      few years where someone has said in essence, finally,
      a class on a day that 'I' could attend.

      I'm the first to admit that as a trainer, I enjoy
      large numbers of participants, but I also enjoy the
      interaction found in a small group as well.

      We don't even ask participants to preregister anymore.
      We set dates, announce and promote, and whether we
      have 3, 30 or more, we hold the class. We only cancel
      for horrid weather and unforeseeable loss of available
      trainers and if at all possible, we reschedule those
      cancelled courses as well.

      So before you cancel that Saturday April class, ask
      yourself when might those people who can receive
      training in April have another opportunity to do so.

      As to OWL, I can't say, I've never staffed one of
      those training events.

      Kevin Pate
      Norman, Ok

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    • deedee.cobb@excite.com
      ... Great question Neal! In our council we really try to encourage not cancelling any training sessions. Many scouters are attending to fulfill the knot
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 2, 2001
        --- In scouter_t@y..., Neal Smith <nsmith@t...> wrote:
        >
        > How large of a group do you need to hold a training?
        >
        Great question Neal!

        In our council we really try to encourage not cancelling any training
        sessions. Many scouters are attending to fulfill the knot requirement
        tied to the training. It isn't fair to anyone if they do not have
        opportunities to do that. With BLT's we offer 4 for Boy Scouts each
        year; 2 per district in the Fall for Cubs, and then at least 6 more
        during the year (on a district basis, yet advertised to anyone within
        the council). Since we are not charging for our training events, it
        makes it easier for people to just walk on. Which is an issue. But,
        we generally know of a few that will be coming. In my district we
        hear 2 days before the training that only 5-10 are signed up, then 25
        show up. We prepare for a large group and then modify if only a few
        show.

        In the CS BLT's we encourage anyone who has changed position to come
        an attend the breakout session to be considered Trained in their new
        position. And, we offer Youth Protection training at the beginning or
        end of the training. By combining all of this within one day, it does
        help to increase attendance.

        And, it really takes advertising the event in the right way to get
        more to attend. You should explain in your flyer the reasons why you
        need to know ahead of time if someone is attending. But, don't
        discourage walk-ons, simply because you may have someone who joined
        as a leader a day or two prior to the training.


        > On a related note, I would like to ask the same question about
        > Webelos Leader Outdoor training (WLOT/OWL).

        Our council only offers this training event once a year, in the Fall.
        We usually have between 100 - 125 participants to attend. Since it is
        required for the Webelos Leader knot, we've never had a problem with
        too few participants. Our biggest obstacle is only offering once a
        year. Our course starts on Friday evening and ends on Sunday about
        noon. It takes about 30 people to staff the event.

        Dee Dee Cobb
        Middle Tennessee Council
        Nashville, TN
      • Neal Smith
        Thanks for all the great responses about the minimum needed for a training. I haven t been able to respond to this list this week, but I ve saved (and
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 9, 2001
          Thanks for all the great responses about the minimum needed for
          a training. I haven't been able to respond to this list this
          week, but I've saved (and savored) the messages on the list.

          I've been of the philosophy that, if you schedule the training and
          don't state in advance that you require reservations, you have an
          obligation to hold the training. I'm glad to see that so many trainers
          here feel the same; it gives me more moral support when discussing this
          with people on the District Committee who disagree. I also really
          liked the idea of turning small trainings into staff development
          sessions. Our training team is currently pretty small, and needs
          to be built up, so we can certainly use this idea.

          After doing a quick (but not thorough) survey of our district, we're
          going ahead with our scheduled Basic training in April. I've also
          scheduled BALOO and OWL trainings on the first Saturday in May -
          after seeing support for this from packs that don't have activities
          scheduled opposite it.

          Judy brought up budget constraints. I certainly agree that OWL
          (and now BALOO), where food is purchased, needs to be preregistered
          to meet a budget. Is that really a constraint for Cub Basic,
          though? The displays, posters, and other "one per training"
          materials aren't purchased for each training. Handouts, trained
          strips, certificates, etc., are one per person trained, but can
          be saved for future trainings. What fixed costs do people see
          in their Cub Basic trainings that would make large groups economical
          but small ones not?

          YIS, Neal Smith (nsmith@...)
          Tatanka District Cub Scout Training Chair
          http://www.bsa.net/samhouston/tatanka/
          Sam Houston Area Council, Houston, Tx
        • Judy Yeager
          Neal Smith wrote: Judy brought up budget constraints. Is that really a constraint for Cub Basic, though? No, that has never been a
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 9, 2001
            Neal Smith wrote: Judy brought up budget constraints. <snip> Is that
            really a constraint for Cub Basic, though? <end snip>

            No, that has never been a constraint for us. We are a very large
            district and run three sessions in the fall and three in the spring. A
            slow day for us is fewer than 30 participants. With a charge of $4.00
            per participant on this course, I have been able to combine it with Den
            Chief Conference when budgeting, run all DC expenses through CSLBT and
            offer the DC training to the kids free of charge. Their cost of
            admission is one or more non-perishable food items which we donate to
            the food pantry of the church which hosts us.

            We also offer a whole cadre of free trainings - YP, H&S, Climb on
            Safely, Safe Swim, Safety Afloat, and Caving. There are no expenses
            because we use a free facility, handouts and pocket certificates come
            from Council and no trained strips involved. Also at these trainings,
            there are no refreshments, no drinks, no extras whatsoever.

            But, if there is food involved, be it "real" food or just snacks,
            finances come into play.

            Judy Yeager
          • AnacBuff@aol.com
            My district has geographical challenges that make holding trainings for less than about 10 people difficult. Island District in Mt. Baker (WA) council is a
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 9, 2001
              My district has geographical challenges that make holding trainings
              for less than about 10 people difficult. Island District in Mt.
              Baker (WA) council is a district made up of islands in the San Juans
              at the north end of Puget Sound. Our district covers the same area
              as the entire rest of the council.

              When we do trainings in one end of our district or another, training
              team members might have to travel by ferry, drive 1-1/2 to 2 hours or
              both depending on the day/place training is happening. Training can
              mean leaving home at 5 AM (or sometimes the night before, depending
              on ferry schedules) and not getting home until late at night. If a
              ferry ride is required to get to training then we try to carpool and
              consolidate materials as a car and driver can cost up to $30 and each
              walk on passenger fare is about $5 - 7. Once when we scheduled a
              training on San Juan Island one of the training team members arranged
              to charter a plane in order to get there to do his part.
              Transportation alone for trainings in the outer islands can cost $50
              or more depending on which training we are presenting (then add in
              the cost of gas, food and, sometimes, lodging for the training team
              alone - oh, my!)

              That being said, we usually go forward with trainings that are on the
              calendar. And if a unit or group of units are willing to commit to 8
              or more leaders at a training, the team will go to them and present
              training.

              Carla B.
              ADC - Fidalgo Island
              Island District Training
              Mt. Baker Council
            • Jim Hawkins
              You are an example of my point (read the last message sent to scouter_t just a few moments ago). Cub Scouting/ Boy Scouting leader training requirements have
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 9, 2001
                You are an example of my point (read the last message sent to
                scouter_t just a few moments ago).

                Cub Scouting/ Boy Scouting leader training requirements have made it
                very expensive, very difficult, and very un-"Keep It Simple" for you
                and your training team. If I had to do what you are having to do, I
                could not. I am glad you have found a way to do it.

                Jim Hawkins
                CS Training Committee Chair
                Four Rivers District

                --- In scouter_t@y..., AnacBuff@a... wrote:
                > My district has geographical challenges that make holding trainings
                > for less than about 10 people difficult. Island District in Mt.
                > Baker (WA) council is a district made up of islands in the San
                Juans
                > at the north end of Puget Sound. Our district covers the same area
                > as the entire rest of the council.
                >
                > When we do trainings in one end of our district or another,
                training
                > team members might have to travel by ferry, drive 1-1/2 to 2 hours
                or
                > both depending on the day/place training is happening. Training
                can
                > mean leaving home at 5 AM (or sometimes the night before, depending
                > on ferry schedules) and not getting home until late at night. If a
                > ferry ride is required to get to training then we try to carpool
                and
                > consolidate materials as a car and driver can cost up to $30 and
                each
                > walk on passenger fare is about $5 - 7. Once when we scheduled a
                > training on San Juan Island one of the training team members
                arranged
                > to charter a plane in order to get there to do his part.
                > Transportation alone for trainings in the outer islands can cost
                $50
                > or more depending on which training we are presenting (then add in
                > the cost of gas, food and, sometimes, lodging for the training team
                > alone - oh, my!)
                >
                > That being said, we usually go forward with trainings that are on
                the
                > calendar. And if a unit or group of units are willing to commit to
                8
                > or more leaders at a training, the team will go to them and present
                > training.
                >
                > Carla B.
                > ADC - Fidalgo Island
                > Island District Training
                > Mt. Baker Council
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