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Charter Organization

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  • terilianne
    Hi guys, I need to get to the treasurer of our chartered organization a list of responsibilities (financial and otherwise) that the co is responsible for for
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 27, 2002
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      Hi guys, I need to get to the treasurer of our chartered organization
      a list of responsibilities (financial and otherwise) that the co is
      responsible for for the unit(s) they charter. I don't have my
      leaders handbook handy (I should just go ahead and buy another) as it
      is out on loan. If any of you can come up with the "official" stuff
      I would love to have it. Thanks in advance

      YiS

      Teri Stoel,
      Hiawatha District Cub Scout Training Coordinator
      Pack Trainer, Pack 43 Tioga Hills
      Advancement/Training Chair
      Tiger Den Leader
      Webelos Assistant Den Leader
      Roundtable Staff
      Daycamp Planning Staff
      Stop me before I volunteer again
    • Aumann, Timothy B.
      Teri: I don t have one handy, but you want the Chartered Organization / BSA agreement form. You might be able to find it online at www.usscouts.org. Basically,
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 28, 2002
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        Teri:

        I don't have one handy, but you want the Chartered Organization / BSA agreement form. You might be able to find it online at www.usscouts.org.

        Basically, the CO is only responsible for providing a Charter Organization Representative and a safe meeting place. There is nothing in the agreement that says the CO must provide any financial help to the unit. On the flip side, everything owned by the unit is actually owned by the CO, and would be responsible for any debts incurred by the unit. They also share in the legal liability if there is a lawsuit, etc.

        But I have to say that I really like the last line of your signature: "Stop me before I volunteer again!"

        Hope this helps,
        Tim Aumann
        taumann@...
        Scoutmaster, Troop 479
        Foothills District Boy Scout Training Chair
        "I used to be a Beaver" in 92-40
        "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle", Class of 1976
      • baden@value.net
        Hi Teri: See below for the info you requested. Also, see http://www.geocities.com/cybercubber/cor.html for the responsibilities of the Chartered Organization
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 28, 2002
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          Hi Teri:

          See below for the info you requested. Also, see
          http://www.geocities.com/cybercubber/cor.html for the responsibilities of the
          Chartered Organization Representative.

          YiS:

          Don De Young
          The Virtual Cub Leader's Handbook
          http://www.geocities.com/cybercubber/

          ======================
          PACK AND CHARTERED ORGANIZATION RELATIONSHIPS

          From the Cub Scout Leader Book (No.33221B) and the Chartered Organization
          Representative (No. 33118C).

          The chartered organization helps the pack by:

          - Providing the Scouting program as an integral part of its program for youth
          and families

          - Ensuring that the Scouting program is conducted according to the policies and
          regulations of the organization and the Boy Scouts of America

          - Selecting a chartered organization representative to serve as liaison with the pack

          - Appointing a pack committee to carry out the responsibilities listed in the
          Cub Scout Leader Book, Chapter 10, "Den and Pack Management"

          - Providing adequate and safe facilities for the monthly pack meeting

          - Providing opportunities for boys to recognize responsibility to God or a
          Supreme Being, to country, to other people, and to self

          - Cooperating with the council in fund-raising through Friends of Scouting (FOS)
          and the United Way so the Scouting program can operate
          --

          > From: "terilianne" <Terilianne@...>
          > Subject: Charter Organization
          >
          > Hi guys, I need to get to the treasurer of our chartered organization
          > a list of responsibilities (financial and otherwise) that the co is
          > responsible for for the unit(s) they charter. I don't have my
          > leaders handbook handy (I should just go ahead and buy another) as it
          > is out on loan. If any of you can come up with the "official" stuff
          > I would love to have it. Thanks in advance
          >
          > YiS
          >
          > Teri Stoel
        • Ted Burton
          At 13:22 -0500 on 02/28/2002, Aumann, Timothy B. spoke about ... I believe most of this paragraph to be an urban legend, or more specifically a scouting
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 1 9:06 AM
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            At 13:22 -0500 on 02/28/2002, Aumann, Timothy B. spoke about
            [Scouter_T] RE: Charter Organization thusly:

            >On the flip side, everything owned by the unit is actually owned by
            >the CO, and would be responsible for any debts incurred by the unit.
            >They also share in the legal liability if there is a lawsuit, etc.

            I believe most of this paragraph to be an urban legend, or more
            specifically a scouting legend. No form of agreement between a
            charter organization and the BSA can override the actual terms of a
            contract for the purchase and sale of goods. Further, I would not
            expect the charter organization to be liable for anything other than
            the negligent selection of a scoutmaster and committee that are
            actually selected by the CO.

            Outside of the LDS church, I find most Scout units actually to be
            functioning as unincorporated associations of the parents and boys.
            They usually have a checking account on which the CO is not
            signatory, and make purchases from that account without in any way
            identifying the CO as a party to the transaction. Neither the seller
            of the goods, nor the buyer of the goods, has any notion that the
            transaction is for and with the CO. Ipso facto, it isn't.

            My opinion is based upon actual factual observations, and 35 years of
            the practice of law.
            --
          • Larry D. Ohs, Attorney at Law
            While I agree with Ted Burton s observation about buyers/sellers of goods from/to a Scout unit not being aware they are dealing with the CO, I m not sure it
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 1 11:17 AM
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              While I agree with Ted Burton's observation about buyers/sellers of goods
              from/to a Scout unit not being aware they are dealing with the CO, I'm not
              sure it would carry over to a lack of liability on that or other issues.
              Plaintiff's attorneys will be looking for the "deep pockets," i.e., those
              with money and/or insurance coverage. Usually that would be the CO instead
              of individual leaders. Individual leaders also hope they are not solely
              legally liable for the unit's activities--that's why they need to keep the
              CO active and involved in the unit. And that's why COs need to be active and
              involved in their Scouting units--due to its potential liability, the CO
              should be assuring itself that its liability is as low as possible given the
              approved activities of the Scouting program. However, that often is not
              done. The CO could argue as Ted states that it isn't liable beyond what a CO
              is responsible for, e.g., selection of responsible SM, CM and committee. I'm
              not sure the CO is insulated from more than that however. The limits of
              liability are constantly being stretched.

              Some troops/COs do operate the way they are supposed to. A United Methodist
              church has sponsored our troop since 1911 (yes, over 90 years). The troop's
              checks have the name of our CO on them, our Scout trailer is titled in the
              name of the CO, it is parked in the church's garage, the trailer and all our
              camping equipment is covered by the church's insurance, we have provided the
              church with an inventory and photographs of all our equipment for insurance
              purposes, the church provides us with our own meeting room, storage closets
              and gives us free use of the copier, the COR is an Eagle Scout and parent of
              our next Eagle, the Church's Treasurer is our immediate past SM and a
              current, active Committee Member (and Eagle Dad). Its liability may or may
              not be greater than a CO which is not involved with the pack or troop other
              than the signature on the recharter form. Certainly the troop leaders expect
              it would back us up if we ever needed it. Being a leader of an
              unincorporated association, as opposed to a leader of part the church's
              youth program, would open me up to greater personal liability. Just to be
              prepared, I carry a personal liability umbrella insurance policy for about
              $150/year which protects me up to $1,000,000.

              The CO for the pack my sons were in (a Lutheran church) nearly withdrew as
              our CO after 20 years when the DE told the church board that BSA (and
              others) could hold them responsible for the pack. Although it does more for
              the pack than just the annual signature, mostly that's because the pack asks
              for it and not because the church offers it.

              Just my thoughts without any real research on the issue. I have practiced
              law for only 22 years.

              Larry Ohs
              Assistant Scoutmaster
              Arborland District Training Committee
              Cornhusker Council Youth Protection Lead Trainer
              "...and a good old Fox, too." W5-63-00


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ted Burton" <scouter@...>
              Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:06 AM
              Subject: [Scouter_T] RE: Charter Organization

              > I believe most of this paragraph to be an urban legend, or more
              > specifically a scouting legend. No form of agreement between a
              > charter organization and the BSA can override the actual terms of a
              > contract for the purchase and sale of goods. Further, I would not
              > expect the charter organization to be liable for anything other than
              > the negligent selection of a scoutmaster and committee that are
              > actually selected by the CO.
              >
              > Outside of the LDS church, I find most Scout units actually to be
              > functioning as unincorporated associations of the parents and boys.
              > They usually have a checking account on which the CO is not
              > signatory, and make purchases from that account without in any way
              > identifying the CO as a party to the transaction. Neither the seller
              > of the goods, nor the buyer of the goods, has any notion that the
              > transaction is for and with the CO. Ipso facto, it isn't.
              >
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