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Re: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

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  • Dave Loomis
    I am not in favor of limiting counselors, in fact you cant do so legally, but there are only so many subjects in which a person can be expert, or at least good
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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      I am not in favor of limiting counselors, in fact you cant do so legally,
      but there are only so many subjects in which a person can be expert, or at
      least good enough to teach the subject.

      Dave
      Historic District
      MBC Database Manager

      masterofscouts540 wrote:

      > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
      > counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
      > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit counselors to 5
      > others 7. What do you think? The National Advancement book says
      > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
      > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting counselors and our council
      > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
      >

      To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

      Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis@...
      1094 Woodbury Ave. (603) 431 5342
      Portsmouth, NH 03801-3225
    • Ted Burton
      At 07:00 +0000 on 01/03/2002, masterofscouts540 spoke about ... I took you at your word about everyone because otherwise I might have shut up. My experience
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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        At 07:00 +0000 on 01/03/2002, masterofscouts540 spoke about
        [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations thusly:

        >I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
        >counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount
        >of merit badges one person can counsel? <snip>

        I took you at your word about "everyone" because otherwise I might
        have shut up.

        My experience is as a Scoutmaster in the past, District Commissioner
        and Assistant Scoutmaster now, as well as now Charter Organization
        Rep for a cub pack; Wood Badge trained. Vigil member of OA. There,
        I've tooted my horn. My perception of the best way to approach this
        question without regard to whether you have to do it this way or not,
        is as follows.

        Both with respect to Boards of Review and Merit Badge Counselors, I
        have long favored involving as many adults as i can. Part of the
        training we are giving Scouts is a certain amount of self-confidence
        and of showing initiative. Requiring the boy to call a total
        stranger, to find another Scout to go with him to avoid one on one,
        and to organize himself with the other Scout to get it done, are all
        valuable training. Fifty years ago (wow) when I was a Scout, I was
        very reluctant to call strangers and ask favors. It took quite some
        time to drill that out of my head, and to become comfortable with
        calling a stranger when I had a legitimate reason to do so. It is
        still a good idea to put Scouts through this, and for that reason if
        for no other.

        When my elder son went for his first job interview ever, he came home
        with the job in his pocket. I asked him how the the interview went,
        and he sort of shrugged said that it was no worse than Boards of
        Review. That's some of what we are after.
        --
      • Tom Pardue
        For my opinion I went through scouting in the mid 1960 s and went to sevral merit badge counselors outside the troop environment. I learned to contact an
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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          For my opinion I went through scouting in the mid
          1960's and went to sevral merit badge counselors
          outside the troop environment. I learned to contact
          an adult and get the merit badge work done. To me
          there are too many times when a Scout gets one adult
          in the troop to do many merit badges. This looses
          some of the reason for having a diverse counselor
          group. The limit should be at the troop level to
          understand why the scouts go to a variety of people
          and experts in the community. It is part of the
          learning progression for advancement. By allowing "no
          limit" many troops will "factory" Eagles without the
          scouts learning any skills for later in life. I don't
          sign merit badge cards for any scout wanting to go to
          a "merit badge university". Review the front of the
          merit badge pamplet and go back a few years for some
          of the old literature on why the program is structured
          to get the scouts into the community.

          Just my opinion and I think I gained from the
          experience.

          Tom Pardue
          SM Troop 548
          Sioux District
          Alamo Area Council
          --- masterofscouts540 <masterofscouts540@...>
          wrote:
          > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about
          > limiting merit badge
          > counselors. What do you think about a council
          > limiting the amount of
          > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit
          > counselors to 5
          > others 7. What do you think? The National
          > Advancement book says
          > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one
          > counselor can
          > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting
          > counselors and our council
          > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Ken Todd
          This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I hope that number
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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            This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of
            Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I
            hope that number is large enough for all of the Merit Badges within
            each of the areas at Summer Camp (lol).

            I can see the position of Rick's Council position of wanting youth to
            visit more than one Merit Badge Counselor to earn their Eagle. But,
            you want to take the Council to task on the number of MBs that one MBC
            is able to counsel.

            Yours in Scouting,
            Ken Todd
            NE-CS-59 Beaver

            --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            Message: 11
            Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:00:30 -0000
            From: "masterofscouts540" <masterofscouts540@...>
            Subject: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

            ... What do you think about a council limiting the amount of merit
            badges one person can counsel? ... The National Advancement book says
            there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
            counsel....
            ________________________________________________________________________
            ________________________________________________________________________

            Message: 12
            Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:39 -0800
            From: "Rick Rambo" <krrambo@...>
            Subject: RE: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

            Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges
            counseled for any one boy by the same counselor....

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          • Rick Rambo
            I think that I had not explained well enough. What our council asks (not requires) is that any one counselor only counsel no more than five badges for any one
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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              I think that I had not explained well enough. What our council asks (not
              requires) is that any one counselor only counsel no more than five badges
              for any one boy. A counselor can be signed up for five, twenty or more
              badges - if he is qualified - but we ask a VOLUNTARY limit on the
              relationship between one boy and one counselor. This can help prevent a
              troop from having two or three 'counselors' for all the boys in the troop.

              I hope I explained a little better this time

              Rick


              **********
              Now more than ever -
              America is returning to the values that Scouting never left!
              **********
              Rick Rambo
              e-mail: rickram.geo@...

              FAX: (561) 673-0437
              http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/
              http://immanuel.faithweb.com/
              AOL Instant Messenger: rickram 1

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ken Todd [mailto:krtodd@...]
              Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 9:41 PM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

              This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of
              Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I
              hope that number is large enough for all of the Merit Badges within
              each of the areas at Summer Camp (lol).

              I can see the position of Rick's Council position of wanting youth to
              visit more than one Merit Badge Counselor to earn their Eagle. But,
              you want to take the Council to task on the number of MBs that one MBC
              is able to counsel.

              Yours in Scouting,
              Ken Todd
              NE-CS-59 Beaver

              --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
              Message: 11
              Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:00:30 -0000
              From: "masterofscouts540" <masterofscouts540@...>
              Subject: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

              ... What do you think about a council limiting the amount of merit
              badges one person can counsel? ... The National Advancement book says
              there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
              counsel....
              ________________________________________________________________________
              ________________________________________________________________________

              Message: 12
              Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:39 -0800
              From: "Rick Rambo" <krrambo@...>
              Subject: RE: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

              Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges
              counseled for any one boy by the same counselor....

              __________________________________________________
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              scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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            • E S Meyers
              At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, you wrote: I just wanted to ask everyone s opinion about limiting merit badge counselors. What do you think about a council limiting
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, you wrote:
                I just wanted to ask everyone's opinion about limiting merit badge
                counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
                merit badges one person can counsel?


                It's kinda like radar detectors.
                You either follow the rules or decide that you are above the rules.

                I favor limiting the counselor to what he or she can prove they know.
                It is no more correct to put an arbitrary limit on an experienced
                counselor than it is to let a Scoutmaster "finish counseling" any merit
                badge started at summer camp.

                Steve Meyers
                Troop 133 Advancement Chairman
                Great Smoky Mountain Council
                PS: I don't have a radar detector and don't want my kids to get one.
              • Trotter
                It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn from one counselor. This would meet any objections that
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                  It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to
                  limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn
                  from one counselor. This would meet any objections
                  that the council may have about the counselors and the
                  boys would be exposed to more counselors.

                  Mat Trotter

                  --- masterofscouts540 <masterofscouts540@...>
                  wrote:
                  > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about
                  > limiting merit badge
                  > counselors. What do you think about a council
                  > limiting the amount of
                  > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit
                  > counselors to 5
                  > others 7. What do you think? The National
                  > Advancement book says
                  > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one
                  > counselor can
                  > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting
                  > counselors and our council
                  > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                  Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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                • Kent Wolfe
                  I ve heard our council (Cornhusker) has a rule about how many MBs one can counsel, but I ve never seen it in writing. As SM, I track the counselors I ve
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                    I've heard our council (Cornhusker) has a rule about how many MBs one can
                    counsel, but I've never seen it in writing. As SM, I track the counselors
                    I've assigned for each Scout. If the Scout has worked with the same adult
                    on more than 2 or 3 MBs already, I have them work with a different adult. Of
                    course this doesn't always work when the troop only has one MB counselor for
                    a badge.

                    This approach supports the "adult association" method. It also allows me to
                    not assign counselors who I've heard might not be requiring Scouts to fully
                    complete requirements.

                    Kent Wolfe
                    Troop 12 SM
                    Lincoln, NE
                    A Buffalo at C-14-01

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Trotter [mailto:rtrotter16@...]
                    Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:45 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations


                    It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to
                    limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn
                    from one counselor. This would meet any objections
                    that the council may have about the counselors and the
                    boys would be exposed to more counselors.

                    Mat Trotter

                    Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • masterofscouts540
                    At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, I wrote: I just wanted to ask everyone s opinion about limiting merit badge counselors. What do you think about a council limiting
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                      At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, I wrote:
                      I just wanted to ask everyone's opinion about limiting merit badge
                      counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
                      merit badges one person can counsel?

                      You Said:
                      It's kinda like radar detectors.
                      You either follow the rules or decide that you are above the rules.


                      That is my point exactly the National BSA Advancement book states
                      that their is no limit on the amount of merit badges one individual
                      can counsel or how many they can counsel for one scout. This is in
                      the National Advancement Guidebook the newest version. If the
                      National Council has this policy I dont think a council should be
                      able to change it. Maybe later I will get into the full story but
                      the council is saying they plan to start limiting counselors to 7.
                      What about people who are proficient at 10 or 12 badges. It is
                      really easy to be able to counsel many badges. If you are an avid
                      collector then their is three collecting badges. One for coins,
                      stamps, and collections. That only leaves you with four more out of
                      119 badges. I'm not saying let one person counsel 50 badges but out
                      of the 119 badges their is 15 that I can counsel my self. All they
                      are doing is taking away from their merit badge counselor pool, and
                      possibly making scouts go farther away to find a counselor. By the
                      way I live in a rural county with a very limited amount of counselors
                      in our county. Thanks for listening.
                    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                      ... I ve never heard of anyone assigning counselors to scouts. My district has a list of MB counselors which we have available for the boys. It has phone
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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                        > As SM, I track the counselors
                        > I've assigned for each Scout. If the Scout has worked with the same adult
                        > on more than 2 or 3 MBs already, I have them work with a different adult.
                        > Of
                        > course this doesn't always work when the troop only has one MB counselor
                        > for
                        > a badge.
                        >
                        >
                        I've never heard of anyone 'assigning' counselors to scouts. My
                        district has a list of MB counselors which we have available for
                        the boys. It has phone numbers and addresses. We usually let them
                        know if we are familiar with any of the people on the list. The
                        adults in my troop have NOT signed up to ensure we have all the
                        'eagle required' MB's covered. To me it is appalling that some
                        MB counselors will tell a boy that they only counsel boys in their
                        own troop.

                        Pete Mullaney
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