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RE: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

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  • Rick Rambo
    Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges counseled for any one boy by the same counselor. It is a recommendation because National has no
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 4, 2002
      Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges counseled for
      any one boy by the same counselor. It is a recommendation because National
      has no limit. We try to sell it to the leaders by pointing out that it does
      a dis-service to the boy to limit the opportunity for him to have more adult
      contact and experience in setting up and keeping appointments with various
      individuals.


      **********
      Now more than ever -
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      **********
      Rick Rambo
      e-mail: rickram.geo@...

      FAX: (561) 673-0437
      http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: masterofscouts540 [mailto:masterofscouts540@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:01 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

      I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
      counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
      merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit counselors to 5
      others 7. What do you think? The National Advancement book says
      there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
      counsel. I dont particulary like limiting counselors and our council
      is trying to limit counselors to 7.






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    • Judy Yeager
      Heart of America Council limits each counselor to 6, but our brand new Advancement Chair in our brand new District is about to take them to task over it, much
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 4, 2002
        Heart of America Council limits each counselor to 6, but our brand new
        Advancement Chair in our brand new District is about to take them to task
        over it, much to the chagrin of our brand new DE!

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "masterofscouts540" <masterofscouts540@...>
        To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:00 AM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations


        > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
        > counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
        > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit counselors to 5
        > others 7. What do you think? The National Advancement book says
        > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
        > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting counselors and our council
        > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
        >
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        >
        >
      • Dave Loomis
        I am not in favor of limiting counselors, in fact you cant do so legally, but there are only so many subjects in which a person can be expert, or at least good
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
          I am not in favor of limiting counselors, in fact you cant do so legally,
          but there are only so many subjects in which a person can be expert, or at
          least good enough to teach the subject.

          Dave
          Historic District
          MBC Database Manager

          masterofscouts540 wrote:

          > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
          > counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
          > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit counselors to 5
          > others 7. What do you think? The National Advancement book says
          > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
          > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting counselors and our council
          > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
          >

          To reply, click on the mailto: address below.

          Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis@...
          1094 Woodbury Ave. (603) 431 5342
          Portsmouth, NH 03801-3225
        • Ted Burton
          At 07:00 +0000 on 01/03/2002, masterofscouts540 spoke about ... I took you at your word about everyone because otherwise I might have shut up. My experience
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
            At 07:00 +0000 on 01/03/2002, masterofscouts540 spoke about
            [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations thusly:

            >I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about limiting merit badge
            >counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount
            >of merit badges one person can counsel? <snip>

            I took you at your word about "everyone" because otherwise I might
            have shut up.

            My experience is as a Scoutmaster in the past, District Commissioner
            and Assistant Scoutmaster now, as well as now Charter Organization
            Rep for a cub pack; Wood Badge trained. Vigil member of OA. There,
            I've tooted my horn. My perception of the best way to approach this
            question without regard to whether you have to do it this way or not,
            is as follows.

            Both with respect to Boards of Review and Merit Badge Counselors, I
            have long favored involving as many adults as i can. Part of the
            training we are giving Scouts is a certain amount of self-confidence
            and of showing initiative. Requiring the boy to call a total
            stranger, to find another Scout to go with him to avoid one on one,
            and to organize himself with the other Scout to get it done, are all
            valuable training. Fifty years ago (wow) when I was a Scout, I was
            very reluctant to call strangers and ask favors. It took quite some
            time to drill that out of my head, and to become comfortable with
            calling a stranger when I had a legitimate reason to do so. It is
            still a good idea to put Scouts through this, and for that reason if
            for no other.

            When my elder son went for his first job interview ever, he came home
            with the job in his pocket. I asked him how the the interview went,
            and he sort of shrugged said that it was no worse than Boards of
            Review. That's some of what we are after.
            --
          • Tom Pardue
            For my opinion I went through scouting in the mid 1960 s and went to sevral merit badge counselors outside the troop environment. I learned to contact an
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
              For my opinion I went through scouting in the mid
              1960's and went to sevral merit badge counselors
              outside the troop environment. I learned to contact
              an adult and get the merit badge work done. To me
              there are too many times when a Scout gets one adult
              in the troop to do many merit badges. This looses
              some of the reason for having a diverse counselor
              group. The limit should be at the troop level to
              understand why the scouts go to a variety of people
              and experts in the community. It is part of the
              learning progression for advancement. By allowing "no
              limit" many troops will "factory" Eagles without the
              scouts learning any skills for later in life. I don't
              sign merit badge cards for any scout wanting to go to
              a "merit badge university". Review the front of the
              merit badge pamplet and go back a few years for some
              of the old literature on why the program is structured
              to get the scouts into the community.

              Just my opinion and I think I gained from the
              experience.

              Tom Pardue
              SM Troop 548
              Sioux District
              Alamo Area Council
              --- masterofscouts540 <masterofscouts540@...>
              wrote:
              > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about
              > limiting merit badge
              > counselors. What do you think about a council
              > limiting the amount of
              > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit
              > counselors to 5
              > others 7. What do you think? The National
              > Advancement book says
              > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one
              > counselor can
              > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting
              > counselors and our council
              > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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            • Ken Todd
              This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I hope that number
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
                This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of
                Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I
                hope that number is large enough for all of the Merit Badges within
                each of the areas at Summer Camp (lol).

                I can see the position of Rick's Council position of wanting youth to
                visit more than one Merit Badge Counselor to earn their Eagle. But,
                you want to take the Council to task on the number of MBs that one MBC
                is able to counsel.

                Yours in Scouting,
                Ken Todd
                NE-CS-59 Beaver

                --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                Message: 11
                Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:00:30 -0000
                From: "masterofscouts540" <masterofscouts540@...>
                Subject: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

                ... What do you think about a council limiting the amount of merit
                badges one person can counsel? ... The National Advancement book says
                there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
                counsel....
                ________________________________________________________________________
                ________________________________________________________________________

                Message: 12
                Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:39 -0800
                From: "Rick Rambo" <krrambo@...>
                Subject: RE: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

                Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges
                counseled for any one boy by the same counselor....

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              • Rick Rambo
                I think that I had not explained well enough. What our council asks (not requires) is that any one counselor only counsel no more than five badges for any one
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
                  I think that I had not explained well enough. What our council asks (not
                  requires) is that any one counselor only counsel no more than five badges
                  for any one boy. A counselor can be signed up for five, twenty or more
                  badges - if he is qualified - but we ask a VOLUNTARY limit on the
                  relationship between one boy and one counselor. This can help prevent a
                  troop from having two or three 'counselors' for all the boys in the troop.

                  I hope I explained a little better this time

                  Rick


                  **********
                  Now more than ever -
                  America is returning to the values that Scouting never left!
                  **********
                  Rick Rambo
                  e-mail: rickram.geo@...

                  FAX: (561) 673-0437
                  http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/
                  http://immanuel.faithweb.com/
                  AOL Instant Messenger: rickram 1

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ken Todd [mailto:krtodd@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 9:41 PM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

                  This is the first time I have heard of a Council limiting the number of
                  Merit Badges that an individual can be a Merit Badge Counselor for. I
                  hope that number is large enough for all of the Merit Badges within
                  each of the areas at Summer Camp (lol).

                  I can see the position of Rick's Council position of wanting youth to
                  visit more than one Merit Badge Counselor to earn their Eagle. But,
                  you want to take the Council to task on the number of MBs that one MBC
                  is able to counsel.

                  Yours in Scouting,
                  Ken Todd
                  NE-CS-59 Beaver

                  --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                  Message: 11
                  Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:00:30 -0000
                  From: "masterofscouts540" <masterofscouts540@...>
                  Subject: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

                  ... What do you think about a council limiting the amount of merit
                  badges one person can counsel? ... The National Advancement book says
                  there is no limit on the number of merit badges one counselor can
                  counsel....
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  ________________________________________________________________________

                  Message: 12
                  Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:39 -0800
                  From: "Rick Rambo" <krrambo@...>
                  Subject: RE: Merit Badge Counselor Limitations

                  Our Council has a *recommendation* of no more than five badges
                  counseled for any one boy by the same counselor....

                  __________________________________________________
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                • E S Meyers
                  At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, you wrote: I just wanted to ask everyone s opinion about limiting merit badge counselors. What do you think about a council limiting
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                    At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, you wrote:
                    I just wanted to ask everyone's opinion about limiting merit badge
                    counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
                    merit badges one person can counsel?


                    It's kinda like radar detectors.
                    You either follow the rules or decide that you are above the rules.

                    I favor limiting the counselor to what he or she can prove they know.
                    It is no more correct to put an arbitrary limit on an experienced
                    counselor than it is to let a Scoutmaster "finish counseling" any merit
                    badge started at summer camp.

                    Steve Meyers
                    Troop 133 Advancement Chairman
                    Great Smoky Mountain Council
                    PS: I don't have a radar detector and don't want my kids to get one.
                  • Trotter
                    It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn from one counselor. This would meet any objections that
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                      It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to
                      limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn
                      from one counselor. This would meet any objections
                      that the council may have about the counselors and the
                      boys would be exposed to more counselors.

                      Mat Trotter

                      --- masterofscouts540 <masterofscouts540@...>
                      wrote:
                      > I just wanted to ask everyones opinion about
                      > limiting merit badge
                      > counselors. What do you think about a council
                      > limiting the amount of
                      > merit badges one person can counsel? Some limit
                      > counselors to 5
                      > others 7. What do you think? The National
                      > Advancement book says
                      > there is no limit on the number of merit badges one
                      > counselor can
                      > counsel. I dont particulary like limiting
                      > counselors and our council
                      > is trying to limit counselors to 7.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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                      Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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                    • Kent Wolfe
                      I ve heard our council (Cornhusker) has a rule about how many MBs one can counsel, but I ve never seen it in writing. As SM, I track the counselors I ve
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                        I've heard our council (Cornhusker) has a rule about how many MBs one can
                        counsel, but I've never seen it in writing. As SM, I track the counselors
                        I've assigned for each Scout. If the Scout has worked with the same adult
                        on more than 2 or 3 MBs already, I have them work with a different adult. Of
                        course this doesn't always work when the troop only has one MB counselor for
                        a badge.

                        This approach supports the "adult association" method. It also allows me to
                        not assign counselors who I've heard might not be requiring Scouts to fully
                        complete requirements.

                        Kent Wolfe
                        Troop 12 SM
                        Lincoln, NE
                        A Buffalo at C-14-01

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Trotter [mailto:rtrotter16@...]
                        Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:45 AM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Merit Badge Counselor Limitations


                        It is a hard call. I think a better rule would be to
                        limit the number of merit badges each boy can earn
                        from one counselor. This would meet any objections
                        that the council may have about the counselors and the
                        boys would be exposed to more counselors.

                        Mat Trotter

                        Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • masterofscouts540
                        At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, I wrote: I just wanted to ask everyone s opinion about limiting merit badge counselors. What do you think about a council limiting
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                          At 07:00 AM 1/3/02 +0000, I wrote:
                          I just wanted to ask everyone's opinion about limiting merit badge
                          counselors. What do you think about a council limiting the amount of
                          merit badges one person can counsel?

                          You Said:
                          It's kinda like radar detectors.
                          You either follow the rules or decide that you are above the rules.


                          That is my point exactly the National BSA Advancement book states
                          that their is no limit on the amount of merit badges one individual
                          can counsel or how many they can counsel for one scout. This is in
                          the National Advancement Guidebook the newest version. If the
                          National Council has this policy I dont think a council should be
                          able to change it. Maybe later I will get into the full story but
                          the council is saying they plan to start limiting counselors to 7.
                          What about people who are proficient at 10 or 12 badges. It is
                          really easy to be able to counsel many badges. If you are an avid
                          collector then their is three collecting badges. One for coins,
                          stamps, and collections. That only leaves you with four more out of
                          119 badges. I'm not saying let one person counsel 50 badges but out
                          of the 119 badges their is 15 that I can counsel my self. All they
                          are doing is taking away from their merit badge counselor pool, and
                          possibly making scouts go farther away to find a counselor. By the
                          way I live in a rural county with a very limited amount of counselors
                          in our county. Thanks for listening.
                        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                          ... I ve never heard of anyone assigning counselors to scouts. My district has a list of MB counselors which we have available for the boys. It has phone
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
                            > As SM, I track the counselors
                            > I've assigned for each Scout. If the Scout has worked with the same adult
                            > on more than 2 or 3 MBs already, I have them work with a different adult.
                            > Of
                            > course this doesn't always work when the troop only has one MB counselor
                            > for
                            > a badge.
                            >
                            >
                            I've never heard of anyone 'assigning' counselors to scouts. My
                            district has a list of MB counselors which we have available for
                            the boys. It has phone numbers and addresses. We usually let them
                            know if we are familiar with any of the people on the list. The
                            adults in my troop have NOT signed up to ensure we have all the
                            'eagle required' MB's covered. To me it is appalling that some
                            MB counselors will tell a boy that they only counsel boys in their
                            own troop.

                            Pete Mullaney
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