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Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills

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  • Bill & Beth Reiller
    Recently someone posted a message about a Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course that had been developed by someone in the Last Frontier Council (?).
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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      Recently someone posted a message about a Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills
      course that had been developed by someone in the Last Frontier Council (?).
      Unfortunately I was too fast with the delete button. I would greatly
      appreciate it if someone would send me that e-mail address that was in that
      posting to contact the person who devloped it.

      Beth Reiller
    • Bill Nelson
      ... purpose of the course is simply to train adults how to teach it to their boys. I don t think that it is a forum to train adults in outdoor skills,
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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        --- In scouter_t@y..., "Ronald Tramm" <beavrc2497@h...> wrote:
        > Dear Trainers,
        >
        > Since I did the first IOLS for our council I think that the real
        purpose of the course is simply to train adults how to teach it to
        their boys. I don't think that it is a forum to train adults in
        outdoor skills, although you'll get those adults who are lacking in
        those skills in your courses. If we stay to the syllabus I think that
        you'll have a successful course and some enthused adults.
        >

        How much of this would be taught in Powder Horn, or the new
        Woodbadge?

        bill
      • Judy Yeager
        Bill Nelson quoted Ronald Tramm . . . Since I did the first IOLS for our council I think that the real purpose of the course is simply to train adults how to
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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          Bill Nelson quoted Ronald Tramm . . . Since I did the first IOLS for our
          council I think that the real purpose of the course is simply to train
          adults how to teach it to their boys. I don't think that it is a forum to
          train adults in outdoor skills . . . and then asked, "How much of this would
          be taught in Powder Horn, or the new Woodbadge?"

          My guess would be absolutely none. It is my understanding that Powder Horn
          is a resources course for high adventure, not an outdoor skills course.
          Having served as staff on two courses of the new Woodbadge, I can tell you
          that you will learn almost NO outdoor skills there. 21st Century Woodbadge
          is a leadership course and has next to nothing to do with outdoor skills.
          As a matter of fact, I believe the new IOLS course was developed to fill the
          gap left when the outdoor skills were dropped from Woodbadge.

          Judy Yeager
        • Bill Nelson
          So the bottom line from all this is that there is no need for an Advanced OLS course, instead just make sure the OLS course does its job in training the
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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            So the bottom line from all this is that there is no need for
            an Advanced OLS course, instead just make sure the OLS course
            does its job in training the Scouter to be able to train
            the youth in the basic outdoor skills?

            bill

            --- In scouter_t@y..., Judy Yeager <kcjscout@s...> wrote:
            > Bill Nelson quoted Ronald Tramm . . . Since I did the first IOLS for
            our
            > council I think that the real purpose of the course is simply to
            train
            > adults how to teach it to their boys. I don't think that it is a
            forum to
            > train adults in outdoor skills . . . and then asked, "How much of
            this would
            > be taught in Powder Horn, or the new Woodbadge?"
            >
            > My guess would be absolutely none. It is my understanding that
            Powder Horn
            > is a resources course for high adventure, not an outdoor skills
            course.
            > Having served as staff on two courses of the new Woodbadge, I can
            tell you
            > that you will learn almost NO outdoor skills there. 21st Century
            Woodbadge
            > is a leadership course and has next to nothing to do with outdoor
            skills.
            > As a matter of fact, I believe the new IOLS course was developed to
            fill the
            > gap left when the outdoor skills were dropped from Woodbadge.
            >
            > Judy Yeager
          • Judy Yeager
            Bill Nelson wrote: So the bottom line from all this is that there is no need for an Advanced OLS course, instead just make sure the OLS course does its job in
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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              Bill Nelson wrote: So the bottom line from all this is that there is no
              need for an Advanced OLS course, instead just make sure the OLS course does
              its job in training the Scouter to be able to train the youth in the basic
              outdoor skills?

              I would not necessarily come to this conclusion from our discussions. In
              order for anyone to teach some skill to another, he must first possess that
              skill. OLS requires the participants to show proficiency in the outdoor
              skills required for Tenderfoot, Second and First Class, the very basic
              outdoor skills, and thus be able to guide youth through that process.
              However, I do not believe that those skills would be sufficient to guide
              youth through the process of preparing for most high adventure activities.
              Further, I do not see a place in our current training continuum where an
              adult can gain proficiency in these skills except at Philmont, although I
              may be missing something. IMO, an Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course,
              not currently provided by BSA for the local level, could fill that gap.
              Unless, of course, my conception of the Powder Horn course being a resourse
              course, rather than a skills course, is incorrect. Just a side note,
              although the "old" Woodbadge used some outdoor skills as teaching tools, it
              has always been considered a leadership course, not an outdoor skills
              course.

              My $.02 worth. If I am wrong, would someone please enlighten me?

              Judy Yeager
            • Rick Rambo
              ... No, that is not the bottom line at all. There is just no NATIONAL course for this sort of thing. It is like in cubing, you have POW-WOW to provide
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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                >So the bottom line from all this is that there is no need for
                >an Advanced OLS course, instead just make sure the OLS course
                >does its job in training the Scouter to be able to train
                >the youth in the basic outdoor skills?

                No, that is not the bottom line at all. There is just no NATIONAL course
                for this sort of thing. It is like in cubing, you have POW-WOW to provide
                advanced training in various areas, your council should put on an Advanced
                Scout Skills course. In the Cascade Pacific Council it is called OSI or
                Outdoor Skills Institute. This is held each year in the spring for Adult
                Scouters to come and learn advanced or more in depth skills from Dutch oven
                cooking to Pioneering to climbing to canoeing! There is nothing on the web
                about this year's course or 2002's classes, but here is a link to a pdf file
                of the class descriptions from 2000.
                http://www.cpcbsa.org/cpcbsa/council/activities/training/osi_class_descripti
                ons.PDF

                And No, this is not the focus of Wood Badge or Powder Horn, wood Badge is
                for LEADERSHIP training and Powder Horn is a High Adventure resource
                management course.

                **********
                Now more than ever -
                America is returning to the values that Scouting never left!
                **********
                Rick Rambo
                e-mail: rickram.geo@...

                FAX: (561) 673-0437
                http://www.geocities.com/rickram.geo/
                http://immanuel.faithweb.com/
                AOL Instant Messenger: rickram 1

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bill Nelson [mailto:bnelson45@...]
                Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 2:09 PM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills



                bill

                --- In scouter_t@y..., Judy Yeager <kcjscout@s...> wrote:
                > Bill Nelson quoted Ronald Tramm . . . Since I did the first IOLS for
                our
                > council I think that the real purpose of the course is simply to
                train
                > adults how to teach it to their boys. I don't think that it is a
                forum to
                > train adults in outdoor skills . . . and then asked, "How much of
                this would
                > be taught in Powder Horn, or the new Woodbadge?"
                >
                > My guess would be absolutely none. It is my understanding that
                Powder Horn
                > is a resources course for high adventure, not an outdoor skills
                course.
                > Having served as staff on two courses of the new Woodbadge, I can
                tell you
                > that you will learn almost NO outdoor skills there. 21st Century
                Woodbadge
                > is a leadership course and has next to nothing to do with outdoor
                skills.
                > As a matter of fact, I believe the new IOLS course was developed to
                fill the
                > gap left when the outdoor skills were dropped from Woodbadge.
                >
                > Judy Yeager



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              • Bill & Beth Reiller
                Thank You! ... From: Kevin Pate To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: [Scouter_T] LFC
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 18, 2001
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                  Thank You!
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Kevin Pate <kevinpate@...>
                  To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:32 AM
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] LFC Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills


                  >
                  > --- "Bill & Beth Reiller" <Reiller1@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Recently someone posted a message about a
                  > > Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course that had been
                  > developed by someone in the Last Frontier Council ....
                  >
                  > Hello Beth,
                  > I wasn't the one who posted the addy, but the email
                  > you're hunting is that Jim Mustoe of Last Frontier
                  > Council, and it's jmustoe@...
                  >
                  > Kevin from Norman, OK
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
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                  >
                  >
                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Kevin Pate
                  ... developed by someone in the Last Frontier Council .... Hello Beth, I wasn t the one who posted the addy, but the email you re hunting is that Jim Mustoe of
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 19, 2001
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                    --- "Bill & Beth Reiller" <Reiller1@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Recently someone posted a message about a
                    > Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course that had been
                    developed by someone in the Last Frontier Council ....

                    Hello Beth,
                    I wasn't the one who posted the addy, but the email
                    you're hunting is that Jim Mustoe of Last Frontier
                    Council, and it's jmustoe@...

                    Kevin from Norman, OK

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