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Re: Unit training plan

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  • Bill
    Andrew, This is a highly unit specific question. We don t know your budget nor how you normally function. Only advice I can give is never give money up front
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 16, 2013
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      Andrew,

      This is a highly unit specific question. We don't know your budget nor how you normally function.

      Only advice I can give is never give money up front wait to reimburse for training costs if they complete the course.

      The other thought is how does it directly benefit the unit? All training is good, but some have a more direct impact on unit activities.

      Bill

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew R. Hinkle" wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I am a Pack trainer and and Troop training chair.
      >
      > Both of these units have always supported training for their adults by
      > paying for leader courses either in full or in part. But lately with an
      > increase in requests for training (A good problem to have), they would like
      > to have a more formalized plan for training.
      >
      > Specifically, the following points have come up.
      >
      > What amount or percentage of the annual unit budget should be allocated for
      > training?
      >
      > Is this amount different for adult vs youth training?
      >
      > Are fees allocated on fiscal need of person or is it equal for all?
      >
      > Do we reimburse before or after the person takes and completes the course?
      >
      > Are there some courses that take precedent over others? e.g. IOLS, BALOO
      > since they are required and Woodbadge or NYLT are not? Wilderness first
      > aid? OWL?
      >
      > How about other supplemental courses? e.g. Rangemaster, Climbing?
      >
      > Any insight or links to other units plans would be appreciated.
      >
      > YIS
      >
      > --
      > Andrew
      > C-29-09
      > C4-441-13-2
      >
      > Tristeza não tem fim, felicidade sim.
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • winsor_compound
      I agree with Bill concerning the direct impact on unit activities. Several years ago, the Pack I was involved with had a Cubmaster with one son a Bear and one
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 17, 2013
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        I agree with Bill concerning the direct impact on unit activities. Several years ago, the Pack I was involved with had a Cubmaster with one son a Bear and one soon to be a Tiger. Definitely somebody the Committee thought would stick with the program. Our Pack had received a substantial donation and the Committee decided that we would send the Cubmaster for a week to Philmont for training (we are in Florida). Great idea, right? We helped subsidize his family attending also, they came back with lots of energy and ideas that lasted about 6 months, and then became less and less active. They eventually moved to another Pack and within a year had dropped Scouts altogether. Not what the Committee had expected at all.

        After this, another group of 2 leaders asked if the Pack would pay for them to attend Woodbadge. The Committee didn't approve that expenditure, so at least the lesson was learned.

        Tracy
        SR-794 "I useed to be a Beaver...."


        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" wrote:
        >
        > Andrew,
        >
        > This is a highly unit specific question. We don't know your budget nor how you normally function.
        >
        > Only advice I can give is never give money up front wait to reimburse for training costs if they complete the course.
        >
        > The other thought is how does it directly benefit the unit? All training is good, but some have a more direct impact on unit activities.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew R. Hinkle" wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi all,
        > >
        > > I am a Pack trainer and and Troop training chair.
        > >
        > > Both of these units have always supported training for their adults by
        > > paying for leader courses either in full or in part. But lately with an
        > > increase in requests for training (A good problem to have), they would like
        > > to have a more formalized plan for training.
        > >
        > > Specifically, the following points have come up.
        > >
        > > What amount or percentage of the annual unit budget should be allocated for
        > > training?
        > >
        > > Is this amount different for adult vs youth training?
        > >
        > > Are fees allocated on fiscal need of person or is it equal for all?
        > >
        > > Do we reimburse before or after the person takes and completes the course?
        > >
        > > Are there some courses that take precedent over others? e.g. IOLS, BALOO
        > > since they are required and Woodbadge or NYLT are not? Wilderness first
        > > aid? OWL?
        > >
        > > How about other supplemental courses? e.g. Rangemaster, Climbing?
        > >
        > > Any insight or links to other units plans would be appreciated.
        > >
        > > YIS
        > >
        > > --
        > > Andrew
        > > C-29-09
        > > C4-441-13-2
        > >
        > > Tristeza não tem fim, felicidade sim.
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • Lisa Titus
        ... In my pack s case, we pay for all leader training required for their position - this includes Youth Protection and position specific training done in a
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 17, 2013
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          On 01/15/2013 3:31 PM, Andrew R. Hinkle wrote:
          > Both of these units have always supported training for their adults by
          > paying for leader courses either in full or in part. But lately with an
          > increase in requests for training (A good problem to have), they would like
          > to have a more formalized plan for training.
          >


          In my pack's case, we pay for all leader training required for their
          position - this includes Youth Protection and position specific training
          done in a LIVE setting if the leader chooses. While the option to
          complete it for free online is there, there is much value to be had from
          a live training. We also pay for BALOO and OWL training. Our Council
          requires OWL for Webelos leaders to take the den camping. Even if it
          didn't, our pack would. We our a 100% trained pack - even is our
          Council doesn't require it.

          Unfortunately, our pack runs on a shoe-string budget and while I've
          encouraged other leaders to take WoodBadge training -- I've not been
          successful yet. I would hope our pack would support a leader choosing
          to give 6 days and work a ticket based on our pack. I would expect the
          leader to have some of their own money in this venture but we'd dig
          through the budget to help. Our pack changed for the better after I
          went to WoodBadge. I know others can help give it the shot in the arm
          that's needed.

          While I don't control my troop's budget, we do have some funds for boys
          to attend NYLT. We also threw a fundraiser to help a Scout pay his
          way to NAYLE.

          --
          Yours in Scouting,

          Lisa Titus
          CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
          ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
          I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250
          I used to be a Staffer ... NE-I-272 & N1-330-12-1







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • chlees3rd
          Andrew, I agree with Bill. Never pay up front! Reimburse only. My suggestion to any unit that pays or is thinking of paying for the training of its adult and
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 25, 2013
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            Andrew,

            I agree with Bill. Never pay up front! Reimburse only.

            My suggestion to any unit that pays or is thinking of paying for the training of its adult and youth leaders is to first decide how the unit is going to benefit from its investment. A Scout is thrifty! For required instructor-led courses such as leader specific training or Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, the benefit should be a fully trained leader who understands his/her role within the unit and organization at the unit's next meeting. These courses are usually inexpensive so I think units should reimburse adults for those completed courses.

            Answering the question of what the unit gets for its money really needs to be answered for high-priced training such as Wood Badge, Powder Horn, NYLT, NAYLE, Wilderness First Aid, etc. Some of these courses can cost hundreds of dollars per person. What is to stop a person from leaving the unit after the unit pays for the training? My suggestion to units is to use the Tenure, Training, and Performance methodology of the Training Awards. If a leader (adult or youth) takes a high-priced course and pays for it out of pocket, then the unit will reimburse the leader a certain percentage of the cost provided the leader completes the training and actively serves a certain period of time using his/her new knowledge to benefit the unit. For example, if a Troop Committee Member took a Wilderness First Aid course, her troop would reimburse her a percentage of the WFA course cost if she registers as a First Aid Merit Badge Counselor for two years and accompanies the troop on high adventure activities/treks. It is a win-win situation in my opinion for both the adult and the unit. The adult learns a new skill without going broke and the troop gets an Eagle-required MBC and gets to use the certification for high adventure trips.

            A policy of "what does the unit get for its investment?" will stop a unit from wasting money. For example, an adult is registered in a troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster and in a pack as an Assistant Den Leader. He wants to take Powder Horn because he feels the exposure to high adventure activities could help his troop; however, the troop does not reimburse for training. But the pack does reimburse. The Powder Horn course is $275. Why not get the pack to pay for it? If the pack is smart, it would ask its Assistant Den Leader how the high adventure exposure/training is going to help its Cub Scouts? A smart pack would probably deny the reimbursement request.

            Hope this helps,
            Chazz Lees
          • chlees3rd
            I should have mentioned that all policies should include a statement that reimbursements for training need to be preapproved long before the adult or youth
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 26, 2013
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              I should have mentioned that all policies should include a statement that reimbursements for training need to be preapproved long before the adult or youth takes a course. This way a unit can determine if the training meets the needs of the unit.

              Chazz Lees

              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "chlees3rd" <CHLees3rd@...> wrote:
              >
              > Andrew,
              >
              > I agree with Bill. Never pay up front! Reimburse only.
              >
              > My suggestion to any unit that pays or is thinking of paying for the training of its adult and youth leaders is to first decide how the unit is going to benefit from its investment. A Scout is thrifty! For required instructor-led courses such as leader specific training or Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, the benefit should be a fully trained leader who understands his/her role within the unit and organization at the unit's next meeting. These courses are usually inexpensive so I think units should reimburse adults for those completed courses.
              >
              > Answering the question of what the unit gets for its money really needs to be answered for high-priced training such as Wood Badge, Powder Horn, NYLT, NAYLE, Wilderness First Aid, etc. Some of these courses can cost hundreds of dollars per person. What is to stop a person from leaving the unit after the unit pays for the training? My suggestion to units is to use the Tenure, Training, and Performance methodology of the Training Awards. If a leader (adult or youth) takes a high-priced course and pays for it out of pocket, then the unit will reimburse the leader a certain percentage of the cost provided the leader completes the training and actively serves a certain period of time using his/her new knowledge to benefit the unit. For example, if a Troop Committee Member took a Wilderness First Aid course, her troop would reimburse her a percentage of the WFA course cost if she registers as a First Aid Merit Badge Counselor for two years and accompanies the troop on high adventure activities/treks. It is a win-win situation in my opinion for both the adult and the unit. The adult learns a new skill without going broke and the troop gets an Eagle-required MBC and gets to use the certification for high adventure trips.
              >
              > A policy of "what does the unit get for its investment?" will stop a unit from wasting money. For example, an adult is registered in a troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster and in a pack as an Assistant Den Leader. He wants to take Powder Horn because he feels the exposure to high adventure activities could help his troop; however, the troop does not reimburse for training. But the pack does reimburse. The Powder Horn course is $275. Why not get the pack to pay for it? If the pack is smart, it would ask its Assistant Den Leader how the high adventure exposure/training is going to help its Cub Scouts? A smart pack would probably deny the reimbursement request.
              >
              > Hope this helps,
              > Chazz Lees
              >
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