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Scouts and Sunscreen

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  • a.walz1998
    I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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      I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?
    • ftooth
      OH for Pete s sakes!!!  Where do they find these trainers ??  Everyone knows the way to protect yourself from accusations is to stay home and never talk
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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        OH for Pete's sakes!!!  Where do they find these "trainers"?? 
        Everyone knows the way to "protect" yourself from accusations is to stay home and never talk to, get near, or even look at a kid. But better get lawyered up anyway, just in case. You never know.


        >________________________________
        > From: a.walz1998 <a.walz1998@...>
        >Subject: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen

        >
        >I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin Pate
        Stock reply to most any verbal information that seems a bit off - Thank you for sharing.  I m sure others in my unit will have questions.  Please give me a
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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          Stock reply to most any verbal information that seems a bit off -

          Thank you for sharing.  I'm sure others in my unit will have questions.  Please give me a reference citation to a BSA publication so I can print this information out from an official source for them. 

          The number one advantage of making this polite request is you get ample opportunity to listen to the sounds of crickets during the period of silence that almost always occurs when the request is made.

          Kevin in Norman, America














          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Connie Knie
          I don t know why you would want to be doing that anyway and while it might seem like overkill to have to be so careful, but why take any chances? The only
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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            I don't know why you would want to be doing that anyway and while it might seem like overkill to have to be so careful, but why take any chances? The only precaution I ever heard about sunscreen is that because of allergies you need to make sure it is the stuff they brought.

            Connie

            --- On Sun, 6/17/12, a.walz1998 <a.walz1998@...> wrote: 






            I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jamie Niss Dunn
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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              <<I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?>>



              This sounds like someone taking respect of privacy to an extreme degree. I've never heard this and it seems rather excessive.

              Jamie Niss Dunn
              Cubmaster, Pack 512
              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
              Troop Committee, Troop 509
              Ham Lake, MN
              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
              Three Rivers District



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lisa Titus
              ... I guess I m shocked to be the only one w3ho has heard of this. It is a policy here that adults do not apply sunscreen to boys - other than a spray type.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                On 06/17/2012 3:03 PM, a.walz1998 wrote:
                > I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?

                I guess I'm shocked to be the only one w3ho has heard of this. It is a
                policy here that adults do not apply sunscreen to boys - other than a
                spray type. We encourage the boys to help each other apply the
                sunscreen properly.

                I understand some folks think that's taking it too far ... but WHY does
                an adult need to do it? Can't the boys help each other? I know
                someone once said "never do for a boy what he can do for himself".
                Not applying sunscreen is just one of MANY things that falls under this
                category and unfortunately -- with applying sunscreen -- it could be
                misconstrued or used by those with less than honorable intentions.

                --
                Yours in Scouting,

                Lisa Titus
                CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
                ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
                I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250
                I used to be a Staffer ... NE-I-272 & N1-330-12-1




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Connie Knie
                And you all must know that it is unlikely that most adult leaders go around putting sunscreen on all of the scouts in their charge. But I think that if
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                  And you all must know that it is unlikely that most adult leaders go around putting sunscreen on all of the scouts in their charge. But I think that if trainers are going around telling classes of new leaders they need to have official sources to back it up.

                  Connie

                  --- On Sun, 6/17/12, Lisa Titus <bearmitzvah@...> wrote:








                  I guess I'm shocked to be the only one w3ho has heard of this. It is a
                  policy here that adults do not apply sunscreen to boys - other than a
                  spray type. We encourage the boys to help each other apply the
                  sunscreen properly.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • A. Dukovic
                  Remember all please, the issue really is being accused of anything deemed innappropriate ; once accused , Scouting s position is unfortunately, you
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                    Remember all please, the "issue" really is being "accused" of anything deemed "innappropriate"; once "accused", Scouting's position is unfortunately, you are "out of the program" until you're "proven innocent" and THAT really is the "issue" because nobody in Scouting is going to "investigate" and find the the "incident" unfounded.
                     
                    There are no BSA "police" and they leave "investigation" to law enforcement which WILL DO their job, but anything not deemed as "illegal" will hang in limbo unfortunately.
                     
                    You really need to warn adults folks that YPT is realistically, "adult protection" and unless they are very careful around all youth, other than their own, they can so easily be removed from the program as volunteers; you all know the diverse communities we serve and "morays" are very different and "applying sun screen" COULD EASILY BE deemed "inappropriate" by many ... food for thought please??
                     
                    Out of the program also means NOT being able to participate with your own son/daughter which is also "food for thought"; not fair, but the way BSA runs.

                    - Art
                    --- On Sun, 6/17/12, Lisa Titus <bearmitzvah@...> wrote:

                    From: Lisa Titus <bearmitzvah@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, June 17, 2012, 6:55 PM



                     



                    On 06/17/2012 3:03 PM, a.walz1998 wrote:
                    > I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard of this?

                    I guess I'm shocked to be the only one w3ho has heard of this. It is a
                    policy here that adults do not apply sunscreen to boys - other than a
                    spray type. We encourage the boys to help each other apply the
                    sunscreen properly.

                    I understand some folks think that's taking it too far ... but WHY does
                    an adult need to do it? Can't the boys help each other? I know
                    someone once said "never do for a boy what he can do for himself".
                    Not applying sunscreen is just one of MANY things that falls under this
                    category and unfortunately -- with applying sunscreen -- it could be
                    misconstrued or used by those with less than honorable intentions.

                    --
                    Yours in Scouting,

                    Lisa Titus
                    CM Pack 358 http://www.pack358.us
                    ASM Troop 459 http://www.troop459.us
                    I used to be a Bear ... NE-I-250
                    I used to be a Staffer ... NE-I-272 & N1-330-12-1

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Connie Knie
                    I couldn t agree more and if the afore mentioned trainers were putting it that way that is great but when folks deemed by others worthy of training newbies are
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                      I couldn't agree more and if the afore mentioned trainers were putting it that way that is great but when folks deemed by others worthy of training newbies are saying that rules are BSA rules without official back up it just costs credibility.......

                      Connie

                      --- On Sun, 6/17/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:
                      Remember all please, the "issue" really is being "accused" of anything deemed "innappropriate"; once "accused", Scouting's position is unfortunately, you are "out of the program" until you're "proven innocent" and THAT really is the "issue" because nobody in Scouting is going to "investigate" and find the the "incident" unfounded.
                       


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scott Robertson
                      Art so true. Thanks. Never have heard it put quit like this before but boy what you say hits home for me... Scott Robertson http://insanescouter.org
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                        Art so true. Thanks. Never have heard it put quit like this before but
                        boy what you say hits home for me...

                        Scott Robertson
                        http://insanescouter.org
                        http://twitter.com/scoutbot
                        http://facebook.com/scoutbot

                        On 06/17/2012 05:21 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
                        >
                        > Remember all please, the "issue" really is being "accused" of anything
                        > deemed "innappropriate"; once "accused", Scouting's position is
                        > unfortunately, you are "out of the program" until you're "proven
                        > innocent" and THAT really is the "issue" because nobody in Scouting is
                        > going to "investigate" and find the the "incident" unfounded.
                        >
                        > There are no BSA "police" and they leave "investigation" to law
                        > enforcement which WILL DO their job, but anything not deemed as
                        > "illegal" will hang in limbo unfortunately.
                        >
                        > You really need to warn adults folks that YPT is realistically, "adult
                        > protection" and unless they are very careful around all youth, other
                        > than their own, they can so easily be removed from the program as
                        > volunteers; you all know the diverse communities we serve and "morays"
                        > are very different and "applying sun screen" COULD EASILY BE deemed
                        > "inappropriate" by many ... food for thought please??
                        >
                        > Out of the program also means NOT being able to participate with your
                        > own son/daughter which is also "food for thought"; not fair, but the
                        > way BSA runs.
                        >
                        > - Art
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • R Fisher
                        The easiest defense in this situation would be no one-to-one private contact. If you apply the sunscreen in a group or with others present, it should be
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                          The easiest "defense" in this situation would be no one-to-one private
                          contact. If you apply the sunscreen in a group or with others present, it
                          should be less of a problem. Or -

                          Let 'em burn! They paid their money, they knew the risk.

                          Roy Fisher

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Connie Knie
                          Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:18 PM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen

                          I don't know why you would want to be doing that anyway and while it might
                          seem like overkill to have to be so careful, but why take any chances? The
                          only precaution I ever heard about sunscreen is that because of allergies
                          you need to make sure it is the stuff they brought.

                          Connie

                          --- On Sun, 6/17/12, a.walz1998 <a.walz1998@...> wrote: 






                          I was told at a training session that leaders cannot apply cream sunscreen
                          to any scout other than their own, the spray kind was fine (if it is the
                          scouts spray) to apply as there is no contact needed. This was to protect
                          the adult from any accusations of innappropriate contact. Anyone else heard
                          of this?




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • ftooth
                          What is so true? That a Scouter was accused of putting sunscreen on a kid?  And you re out of the program because someone said you did THAT??  That
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 17, 2012
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                            What is so true? That a Scouter was accused of putting sunscreen on a kid?  And you're "out of the program" because someone said you did THAT??  That is "inappropriate" (aka sexually deviant) behavior?? 
                             
                            Look, if a kid asks you to help put sunscreen on his back, he's not thinking that is inappropritate sexually deviant behavior.  If a kid has a mind to make an unfounded accusation of a Scouter perpetrating some nasty immoral deviant act upon him, you are done for.  You're not going to be safe just because you avoided doing sunscreen.
                             
                            I'm much more afraid of the adult who's mind thinks like that. That's just plain weird.  Stay away from weird people that see nefarious "inappropriate" behaviors in simple innocuous actions in others.  And fire that trainer.
                            Frank
                             

                            >________________________________
                            > From: Scott Robertson <scott@...>
                            >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen
                            >
                            >

                            >
                            >Art so true. Thanks. Never have heard it put quit like this before but
                            >boy what you say hits home for me...
                            >
                            >Scott Robertson
                            >http://insanescouter.org
                            >http://twitter.com/scoutbot
                            >http://facebook.com/scoutbot
                            >
                            >On 06/17/2012 05:21 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Remember all please, the "issue" really is being "accused" of anything
                            >> deemed "innappropriate"; once "accused", Scouting's position is
                            >> unfortunately, you are "out of the program" until you're "proven
                            >> innocent" and THAT really is the "issue" because nobody in Scouting is
                            >> going to "investigate" and find the the "incident" unfounded.
                            >>
                            >> There are no BSA "police" and they leave "investigation" to law
                            >> enforcement which WILL DO their job, but anything not deemed as
                            >> "illegal" will hang in limbo unfortunately.
                            >>
                            >> You really need to warn adults folks that YPT is realistically, "adult
                            >> protection" and unless they are very careful around all youth, other
                            >> than their own, they can so easily be removed from the program as
                            >> volunteers; you all know the diverse communities we serve and "morays"
                            >> are very different and "applying sun screen" COULD EASILY BE deemed
                            >> "inappropriate" by many ... food for thought please??
                            >>
                            >> Out of the program also means NOT being able to participate with your
                            >> own son/daughter which is also "food for thought"; not fair, but the
                            >> way BSA runs.
                            >>
                            >> - Art
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • E Hebenthal
                            Use spray sunscreen. What I ll never forget is the time as a young Boy Scout, my son started to pack sunscreen and my husband told him he didn t need it
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 18, 2012
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                              Use spray sunscreen.

                              What I'll never forget is the time as a young Boy Scout, my son started to pack sunscreen and my husband told him he didn't need it because it was winter. Well, in the winter even in north Florida, you can get sunburn and my son did.

                              A good hat can be helpful too.

                              YIS,
                              Elaine H.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: ftooth <ftooth@...>
                              To: scouter t <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen

                              What is so true? That a Scouter was accused of putting sunscreen on a kid?  And you're "out of the program" because someone said you did THAT??  That is "inappropriate" (aka sexually deviant) behavior?? 
                               
                              Look, if a kid asks you to help put sunscreen on his back, he's not thinking that is inappropritate sexually deviant behavior.  If a kid has a mind to make an unfounded accusation of a Scouter perpetrating some nasty immoral deviant act upon him, you are done for.  You're not going to be safe just because you avoided doing sunscreen.
                               
                              I'm much more afraid of the adult who's mind thinks like that. That's just plain weird.  Stay away from weird people that see nefarious "inappropriate" behaviors in simple innocuous actions in others.  And fire that trainer.
                              Frank
                               

                              >________________________________
                              > From: Scott Robertson <scott@...>
                              >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen
                              >
                              >

                              >
                              >Art so true. Thanks. Never have heard it put quit like this before but
                              >boy what you say hits home for me...
                              >
                              >Scott Robertson
                              >http://insanescouter.org
                              >http://twitter.com/scoutbot
                              >http://facebook.com/scoutbot
                              >
                              >On 06/17/2012 05:21 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Remember all please, the "issue" really is being "accused" of anything
                              >> deemed "innappropriate"; once "accused", Scouting's position is
                              >> unfortunately, you are "out of the program" until you're "proven
                              >> innocent" and THAT really is the "issue" because nobody in Scouting is
                              >> going to "investigate" and find the the "incident" unfounded.
                              >>
                              >> There are no BSA "police" and they leave "investigation" to law
                              >> enforcement which WILL DO their job, but anything not deemed as
                              >> "illegal" will hang in limbo unfortunately.
                              >>
                              >> You really need to warn adults folks that YPT is realistically, "adult
                              >> protection" and unless they are very careful around all youth, other
                              >> than their own, they can so easily be removed from the program as
                              >> volunteers; you all know the diverse communities we serve and "morays"
                              >> are very different and "applying sun screen" COULD EASILY BE deemed
                              >> "inappropriate" by many ... food for thought please??
                              >>
                              >> Out of the program also means NOT being able to participate with your
                              >> own son/daughter which is also "food for thought"; not fair, but the
                              >> way BSA runs.
                              >>
                              >> - Art
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                            • David Wildschuetz
                              I was perusing through Yahoo today and came across a story on suntan lotion that reminded me of this thread.  They point out in the article, that the schools
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 22, 2012
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                                I was perusing through Yahoo today and came across a story on suntan lotion that
                                reminded me of this thread.  They point out in the article, that the schools
                                policy prohibiting teachers from applying lotion or allowing students from
                                applying it themselves without a doctor's prescription is based on Washington
                                state law.  The reasoning is that the FDA considers the lotion as an
                                over-the-counter medication, and I know our school district requires a
                                prescription for anything, including asprin.


                                http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/kids-come-home-school-bad-sunburns-responsible-172200498.html



                                So, it could be that the training staff that told the participants, as per the
                                OPs question that started this thread, was referring to a situation like this,
                                and not that it was a youth protection issue at all.

                                 David Wildschuetz
                                Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                                http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                                ________________________________
                                From: E Hebenthal <ehebenthal@...>
                                To: scouter t <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Mon, June 18, 2012 9:07:37 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Scouts and Sunscreen

                                 
                                Use spray sunscreen.

                                What I'll never forget is the time as a young Boy Scout, my son started to pack
                                sunscreen and my husband told him he didn't need it because it was winter. Well,
                                in the winter even in north Florida, you can get sunburn and my son did.

                                A good hat can be helpful too.

                                YIS,
                                Elaine H.

                                .



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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