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RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

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  • Tim Shea
    Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who didn t think to bring the meds.. From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 29 , May 4, 2012
      Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
      didn't think to bring the meds..



      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
      Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
      To: Scout Trainer
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





      Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
      at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
      especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
      meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
      until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

      Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
      Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
      <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
      Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

      I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
      don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
      scouting.......

      Connie

      --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
      <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

      Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
      for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
      refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
      the boy, something you CAN easily require.

      We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

      Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
      Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
      Overtrained Scout Leader

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Corinna Jones
      Overnight them... ... From: Tim Shea Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
      Message 2 of 29 , May 4, 2012
        Overnight them...

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Shea
        Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

        Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
        didn't think to bring the meds..



        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
        Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
        To: Scout Trainer
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





        Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
        at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
        especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
        meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
        until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

        Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
        Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
        <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
        Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

        I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
        don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
        scouting.......

        Connie

        --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
        <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

        Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
        for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
        refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
        the boy, something you CAN easily require.

        We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

        Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
        Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
        Overtrained Scout Leader

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Jamie Niss Dunn
        Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent
        Message 3 of 29 , May 4, 2012
          <<Overnight them...>>

          Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp location.



          Jamie Niss Dunn
          Pack Trainer, Pack 512
          Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
          Troop Committee, Troop 509
          Ham Lake, MN
          Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
          Three Rivers District



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Corinna Jones
          It s definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek. ... From: Jamie
          Message 4 of 29 , May 4, 2012
            It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
            days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jamie Niss Dunn
            Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds



            <<Overnight them...>>

            Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
            would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
            delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
            location.



            Jamie Niss Dunn
            Pack Trainer, Pack 512
            Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
            Troop Committee, Troop 509
            Ham Lake, MN
            Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
            Three Rivers District



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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          • Tim Shea
            Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a product of the 60s and his elevator didn t quite make it to the top floor, you know, a
            Message 5 of 29 , May 4, 2012
              Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a
              product of the 60s and his elevator didn't quite make it to the top floor,
              you know, a few cards short of a full deck, not the sharpest knife in the
              drawer..



              I found out on day 3 or 4 on the trail when junior had a meltdown.



              I'll save you the gory details but the dad & lad were instructed to bring up
              the rear and to just maintain visibility of the "last" Scout in line in
              front of them. The other Scouts did not want anything to do with the two and
              neither did the adults on the trip. This guy has a long history of being,
              shall we say a non-conformist, non-team player.



              Made for a interesting fun week!



              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Corinna Jones
              Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:50 AM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





              It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of

              days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jamie Niss Dunn
              Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

              <<Overnight them...>>

              Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
              would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
              delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
              location.

              Jamie Niss Dunn
              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
              Troop Committee, Troop 509
              Ham Lake, MN
              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
              Three Rivers District

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>

              Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Connie Knie
              Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so
              Message 6 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so incredible about getting stuff to scouts on the trail. One of my guys had his boots explode and we got some delivered on hroseback!!

                Connie

                --- On Fri, 5/4/12, Corinna Jones <corinnajones@...> wrote:

                It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • eaglemom53
                My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and
                Message 7 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                  My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and already in the "crazed hunger-man" thing! And I can think of plenty of places in a camp where I wouldn't want a boy with poor impulse control....rock climbing, shooting sports, the waterfront, to just name a few. Even on his meds, Sam managed to cut his finger badly enough to need stitches. But, bless the camp staff's hearts, they stuck with him, and he earned all the merit badges he was working on, including Rifle Shooting (not too hard), and Swimming (they ductaped a plastic bag around his hand).

                  As far as insomnia goes, there are some medications like Strattera that aren't stimulants, which helps at night.

                  Lucinda
                • Scouter Chuck
                  Chiming in on this thread, again. The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something that was popular in the 80 s, I believe. Unfortunately, while most
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 6, 2012
                    Chiming in on this thread, again.

                    The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                    that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                    while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                    it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                    where it _never_ goes away.

                    We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                    the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                    staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                    I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                    with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                    There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                    of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                    imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                    meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                    the adults, or the unit.

                    A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                    divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                    the other can't or won't see.

                    Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                    summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                    such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                    somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                    some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                    meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                    how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                    One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                    it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                    delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                    years. Things can get really interesting until the
                    _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                    Just a $0.02 rant.

                    YiS,

                    Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                    I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                    Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                    District Committee Member at Large
                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                    "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                    -- Stephen R. Covey
                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                  • Thomas Roberts
                    I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 8, 2012
                      I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                       
                      I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                       
                      Tom R


                      ________________________________
                      From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                       
                      Chiming in on this thread, again.

                      The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                      that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                      while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                      it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                      where it _never_ goes away.

                      We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                      the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                      staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                      I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                      with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                      There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                      of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                      imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                      meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                      the adults, or the unit.

                      A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                      divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                      the other can't or won't see.

                      Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                      summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                      such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                      somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                      some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                      meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                      how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                      One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                      it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                      delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                      years. Things can get really interesting until the
                      _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                      Just a $0.02 rant.

                      YiS,

                      Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                      I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                      Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                      District Committee Member at Large
                      ----------------------------------------------------------
                      "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                      -- Stephen R. Covey
                      ----------------------------------------------------------



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scouter Chuck
                      Thomas Roberts wrote: [Edited for slight brevity] ... ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_ individualized. What works for one brother may
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 8, 2012
                        Thomas Roberts wrote:

                        [Edited for slight brevity]
                        > ... When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated,
                        > ... We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected. Her first
                        > comments were about limiting meds and trying different
                        > approaches. Several of which we had tried and failed, with
                        > the oldest son.

                        ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_
                        individualized. What works for one brother may not work for
                        the other. I'm not saying that these would have worked, but
                        some of them could have. It's the same for _all_ forms of
                        ADHD.

                        Your experience is like the parents who finally agree to
                        medicate their child, only to have him/her turn into a
                        "zombie". So, after that experience, they never allow or
                        try meds again. In reality, what their child got was most
                        likely the wrong med, and/or at the wrong dose.

                        > That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".
                        > By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though
                        > she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed
                        > the medication."

                        Any doctor who treats ADHD professionally, and doesn't
                        believe in medication for children, is not one that I would
                        recommend or send a child to. Most parents of ADHD kids that
                        I know would literally give up their right arm if they could
                        get a _reliable_ treatment for their child's ADHD, that
                        didn't require medications.

                        Even Strattera is dangerous, in the same way that cholesterol
                        meds are dangerous, because of the potential that they can
                        build up in the liver and damage it.

                        > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds
                        > either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid
                        > who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent
                        > refuse to believe there is a problem.

                        Ain't that the truth.

                        YiS,

                        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                        District Committee Member at Large
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                        -- Stephen R. Covey
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                      • Herb
                        My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 11, 2012
                          My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway my point is sometimes it is the parents and teachers that need medication to show more patience and understanding rather than use the broad brush to cover up their inability to cope.

                          Herb d

                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Roberts <minisinkbuffalo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                          >  
                          > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                          >  
                          > Tom R
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          > Chiming in on this thread, again.
                          >
                          > The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                          > that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                          > while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                          > it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                          > where it _never_ goes away.
                          >
                          > We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                          > the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                          > staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                          > I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                          > with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".
                          >
                          > There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                          > of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                          > imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                          > meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                          > the adults, or the unit.
                          >
                          > A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                          > divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                          > the other can't or won't see.
                          >
                          > Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                          > summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                          > such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                          > somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                          > some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                          > meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                          > how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.
                          >
                          > One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                          > it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                          > delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                          > years. Things can get really interesting until the
                          > _new_ treatment plan is determined.
                          >
                          > Just a $0.02 rant.
                          >
                          > YiS,
                          >
                          > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                          > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                          > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                          > District Committee Member at Large
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                          > -- Stephen R. Covey
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
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