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Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

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  • eaglemom53
    To me, taking a med break for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an insulin break . As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told
    Message 1 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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      To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

      Lucinda in VA
    • Thomas Roberts
      Lucinda,  Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and
      Message 2 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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        Lucinda,
         Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and delayed development.  Most kids may make this up later in their teens.  I had 3 of 4 sons with ADD.  The doctor said the same to us.  Even more than being "dumb" on the weekends and school vacations is the hassle for us.  Who wants to deal with the lack of impulse control and resulting attitudes when we are dealing with them on the weekends.
         
        Our kids have all been very active in both Scouts and sports.  If a kid has a Scout event then I want the kid on his meds, mine or someone else’s.  If they have a sport or school event then the kid needs to be focused to keep up with the action.
         
        A bigger problem for Scouters is that the ADD meds can leave the youth with insomnia.  Then they need to take melatonin or some other remedy before bedtime or you may find the boy wandering the campsite at 1 or 2 AM.  (Melatonin is a non-narcotic remedy that replaces naturally occurring melatonin that may be missing in some ADD children.)
         
        Tom R
        Scouter in NY State

        ________________________________
        From: eaglemom53 <eaglemom53@...>
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 8:24 AM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


         
        To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

        Lucinda in VA




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tim Shea
        Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who didn t think to bring the meds.. From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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          Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
          didn't think to bring the meds..



          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
          Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
          To: Scout Trainer
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





          Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
          at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
          especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
          meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
          until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

          Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
          Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
          <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
          Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

          I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
          don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
          scouting.......

          Connie

          --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
          <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

          Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
          for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
          refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
          the boy, something you CAN easily require.

          We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

          Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
          Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
          Overtrained Scout Leader

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Corinna Jones
          Overnight them... ... From: Tim Shea Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
          Message 4 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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            Overnight them...

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Shea
            Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

            Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
            didn't think to bring the meds..



            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
            Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
            To: Scout Trainer
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





            Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
            at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
            especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
            meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
            until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

            Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
            Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
            <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
            Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

            I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
            don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
            scouting.......

            Connie

            --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
            <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

            Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
            for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
            refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
            the boy, something you CAN easily require.

            We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

            Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
            Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
            Overtrained Scout Leader

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Jamie Niss Dunn
            Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent
            Message 5 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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              <<Overnight them...>>

              Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp location.



              Jamie Niss Dunn
              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
              Troop Committee, Troop 509
              Ham Lake, MN
              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
              Three Rivers District



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Corinna Jones
              It s definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek. ... From: Jamie
              Message 6 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds



                <<Overnight them...>>

                Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                location.



                Jamie Niss Dunn
                Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                Troop Committee, Troop 509
                Ham Lake, MN
                Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                Three Rivers District



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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              • Tim Shea
                Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a product of the 60s and his elevator didn t quite make it to the top floor, you know, a
                Message 7 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                  Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a
                  product of the 60s and his elevator didn't quite make it to the top floor,
                  you know, a few cards short of a full deck, not the sharpest knife in the
                  drawer..



                  I found out on day 3 or 4 on the trail when junior had a meltdown.



                  I'll save you the gory details but the dad & lad were instructed to bring up
                  the rear and to just maintain visibility of the "last" Scout in line in
                  front of them. The other Scouts did not want anything to do with the two and
                  neither did the adults on the trip. This guy has a long history of being,
                  shall we say a non-conformist, non-team player.



                  Made for a interesting fun week!



                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Corinna Jones
                  Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:50 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                  It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of

                  days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                  Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                  <<Overnight them...>>

                  Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                  would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                  delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                  location.

                  Jamie Niss Dunn
                  Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                  Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                  Troop Committee, Troop 509
                  Ham Lake, MN
                  Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                  Three Rivers District

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>

                  Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Connie Knie
                  Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                    Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so incredible about getting stuff to scouts on the trail. One of my guys had his boots explode and we got some delivered on hroseback!!

                    Connie

                    --- On Fri, 5/4/12, Corinna Jones <corinnajones@...> wrote:

                    It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                    days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • eaglemom53
                    My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                      My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and already in the "crazed hunger-man" thing! And I can think of plenty of places in a camp where I wouldn't want a boy with poor impulse control....rock climbing, shooting sports, the waterfront, to just name a few. Even on his meds, Sam managed to cut his finger badly enough to need stitches. But, bless the camp staff's hearts, they stuck with him, and he earned all the merit badges he was working on, including Rifle Shooting (not too hard), and Swimming (they ductaped a plastic bag around his hand).

                      As far as insomnia goes, there are some medications like Strattera that aren't stimulants, which helps at night.

                      Lucinda
                    • Scouter Chuck
                      Chiming in on this thread, again. The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something that was popular in the 80 s, I believe. Unfortunately, while most
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 6, 2012
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                        Chiming in on this thread, again.

                        The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                        that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                        while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                        it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                        where it _never_ goes away.

                        We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                        the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                        staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                        I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                        with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                        There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                        of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                        imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                        meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                        the adults, or the unit.

                        A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                        divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                        the other can't or won't see.

                        Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                        summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                        such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                        somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                        some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                        meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                        how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                        One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                        it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                        delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                        years. Things can get really interesting until the
                        _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                        Just a $0.02 rant.

                        YiS,

                        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                        District Committee Member at Large
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                        -- Stephen R. Covey
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                      • Thomas Roberts
                        I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 8, 2012
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                          I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                           
                          I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                           
                          Tom R


                          ________________________________
                          From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                           
                          Chiming in on this thread, again.

                          The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                          that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                          while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                          it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                          where it _never_ goes away.

                          We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                          the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                          staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                          I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                          with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                          There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                          of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                          imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                          meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                          the adults, or the unit.

                          A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                          divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                          the other can't or won't see.

                          Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                          summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                          such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                          somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                          some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                          meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                          how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                          One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                          it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                          delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                          years. Things can get really interesting until the
                          _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                          Just a $0.02 rant.

                          YiS,

                          Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                          I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                          Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                          District Committee Member at Large
                          ----------------------------------------------------------
                          "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                          -- Stephen R. Covey
                          ----------------------------------------------------------



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Scouter Chuck
                          Thomas Roberts wrote: [Edited for slight brevity] ... ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_ individualized. What works for one brother may
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 8, 2012
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                            Thomas Roberts wrote:

                            [Edited for slight brevity]
                            > ... When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated,
                            > ... We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected. Her first
                            > comments were about limiting meds and trying different
                            > approaches. Several of which we had tried and failed, with
                            > the oldest son.

                            ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_
                            individualized. What works for one brother may not work for
                            the other. I'm not saying that these would have worked, but
                            some of them could have. It's the same for _all_ forms of
                            ADHD.

                            Your experience is like the parents who finally agree to
                            medicate their child, only to have him/her turn into a
                            "zombie". So, after that experience, they never allow or
                            try meds again. In reality, what their child got was most
                            likely the wrong med, and/or at the wrong dose.

                            > That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".
                            > By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though
                            > she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed
                            > the medication."

                            Any doctor who treats ADHD professionally, and doesn't
                            believe in medication for children, is not one that I would
                            recommend or send a child to. Most parents of ADHD kids that
                            I know would literally give up their right arm if they could
                            get a _reliable_ treatment for their child's ADHD, that
                            didn't require medications.

                            Even Strattera is dangerous, in the same way that cholesterol
                            meds are dangerous, because of the potential that they can
                            build up in the liver and damage it.

                            > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds
                            > either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid
                            > who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent
                            > refuse to believe there is a problem.

                            Ain't that the truth.

                            YiS,

                            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                            District Committee Member at Large
                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                            -- Stephen R. Covey
                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                          • Herb
                            My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 11, 2012
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                              My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway my point is sometimes it is the parents and teachers that need medication to show more patience and understanding rather than use the broad brush to cover up their inability to cope.

                              Herb d

                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Roberts <minisinkbuffalo@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                              >  
                              > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                              >  
                              > Tom R
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              > Chiming in on this thread, again.
                              >
                              > The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                              > that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                              > while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                              > it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                              > where it _never_ goes away.
                              >
                              > We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                              > the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                              > staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                              > I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                              > with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".
                              >
                              > There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                              > of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                              > imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                              > meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                              > the adults, or the unit.
                              >
                              > A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                              > divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                              > the other can't or won't see.
                              >
                              > Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                              > summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                              > such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                              > somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                              > some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                              > meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                              > how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.
                              >
                              > One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                              > it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                              > delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                              > years. Things can get really interesting until the
                              > _new_ treatment plan is determined.
                              >
                              > Just a $0.02 rant.
                              >
                              > YiS,
                              >
                              > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                              > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                              > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                              > District Committee Member at Large
                              > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                              > -- Stephen R. Covey
                              > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
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