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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

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  • 'Fred Skrotzki'
    NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we plan trips.
    Message 1 of 29 , May 1, 2012
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      NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it
      more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we
      plan trips. Crossing state lines are even more fun in some directions.

      We have a form that the parents fill out in regards to the meds. Some can
      be skipped and forgotten (generic allergy issues) while others can't
      (behavioral, medically necessary). For boys that fall into the latter
      category they and their parents agree that if they refuse to take the meds
      they will removed from the location/event and the parents will pick them up
      ASAP or cover all costs to get the boy home which can include the fees for
      two others to follow Youth Protection.

      Sad but we had to move it this due to a boy refusing Meds at summer camp 400
      miles away from home several years ago.

      Parents are also informed that all boys with meds need to check in with a
      specific leader for a given event. We control the meds unless the boy's
      parent happens to be with us and we agree otherwise. Exceptions are
      Inhalers and Epipens that might be needed in a rush.

      Where do we keep them? We have a small safe attached to the troop trailer
      which is where we store things when possible.


      _____

      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Connie Knie
      Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds




      Hi Art,
      As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by
      the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take
      them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and
      all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.

      We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his
      meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this
      with these particular parents.

      Connie

      --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
      <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

      Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee
      bylaws, then great!! If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is
      much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times
      a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely
      require a parent to attend a campout??

      NOT criticism, just curious please??

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • A. Dukovic
      Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for volunteers ; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses,
      Message 2 of 29 , May 1, 2012
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        Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
         
        We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues, as they allegedly stunt their growth if taken all year; now the issues schools have, Scouting also has, so we don't deny the youth Scouting, we just REQUIRE the parents to attend or be on "stand by" in case junior gets outta control!!    NOT something we like to do, but find it a necessity at times so everyone has the opportunity to take full advantage of everything Scouting has to offer; something Scouting does NOT want to get involved with but again, a real necessity when you deal with youth these days.  That new BSA medical form, with all the doctor's checks and balances, is really a life-saver we've found with "professional" folks making all the decisions; we have a simple "Med Card" we use for all OTC stuff and that works very well for us.

        - Art
        --- On Tue, 5/1/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

        From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, May 1, 2012, 1:12 PM



         



        Hi Art,
        As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.
         
        We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this with these particular parents.

        Connie

        --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

        Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
         
        NOT criticism, just curious please?? 

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Connie Knie
        I guess what I really don t understand is the mentality of parents who just don t stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
        Message 3 of 29 , May 2, 2012
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          I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

          Connie

          --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

          Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
           
          We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dan Hammond, Sr.
          Aahhh. The old let s take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially
          Message 4 of 29 , May 3, 2012
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            Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp" trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on meds in the first place.  Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
             
             Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@... connie_knie
                Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

            I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

            Connie

            --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

            Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
             
            We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,



            Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
            Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
            Overtrained Scout Leader


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Corinna Jones
            You share my husband s pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing merit badges,
            Message 5 of 29 , May 3, 2012
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              You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
              structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
              merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
              cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
              boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
              because many are oblivious.

              Corinna


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
              Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
              To: Scout Trainer
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

              Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
              at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
              especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
              meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
              until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
            • lynntw83
              I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he
              Message 6 of 29 , May 3, 2012
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                I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he takes his meds, or a parent comes along. It's grossly unfair to the leaders and other boys to stick them with dealing with a kid who's impossible to manage because he's taking a medication break. That kid doesn't have any business detracting from someone else's experience at camp.

                But, I'm working with a Venturing Crew now, and we don't have any of that just now.

                Lynn Thomas


                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Corinna Jones" <corinnajones@...> wrote:
                >
                > You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
                > structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
                > merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
                > cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
                > boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
                > because many are oblivious.
                >
                > Corinna
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
                > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
                > To: Scout Trainer
                > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                >
                > Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                > at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                > especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                > meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                > until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                >
              • eaglemom53
                To me, taking a med break for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an insulin break . As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told
                Message 7 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                  To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                  Lucinda in VA
                • Thomas Roberts
                  Lucinda,  Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                    Lucinda,
                     Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and delayed development.  Most kids may make this up later in their teens.  I had 3 of 4 sons with ADD.  The doctor said the same to us.  Even more than being "dumb" on the weekends and school vacations is the hassle for us.  Who wants to deal with the lack of impulse control and resulting attitudes when we are dealing with them on the weekends.
                     
                    Our kids have all been very active in both Scouts and sports.  If a kid has a Scout event then I want the kid on his meds, mine or someone else’s.  If they have a sport or school event then the kid needs to be focused to keep up with the action.
                     
                    A bigger problem for Scouters is that the ADD meds can leave the youth with insomnia.  Then they need to take melatonin or some other remedy before bedtime or you may find the boy wandering the campsite at 1 or 2 AM.  (Melatonin is a non-narcotic remedy that replaces naturally occurring melatonin that may be missing in some ADD children.)
                     
                    Tom R
                    Scouter in NY State

                    ________________________________
                    From: eaglemom53 <eaglemom53@...>
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 8:24 AM
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                     
                    To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                    Lucinda in VA




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tim Shea
                    Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who didn t think to bring the meds.. From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                      Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                      didn't think to bring the meds..



                      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                      Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                      To: Scout Trainer
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                      Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                      at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                      especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                      meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                      until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                      Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                      Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                      <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                      Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                      I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                      don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                      scouting.......

                      Connie

                      --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                      <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                      Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                      for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                      refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                      the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                      We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                      Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                      Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                      Overtrained Scout Leader

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Corinna Jones
                      Overnight them... ... From: Tim Shea Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                        Overnight them...

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Tim Shea
                        Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                        Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                        didn't think to bring the meds..



                        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                        Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                        To: Scout Trainer
                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                        Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                        at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                        especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                        meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                        until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                        Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                        Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                        <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                        Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                        I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                        don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                        scouting.......

                        Connie

                        --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                        <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                        Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                        for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                        refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                        the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                        We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                        Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                        Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                        Overtrained Scout Leader

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      • Jamie Niss Dunn
                        Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                          <<Overnight them...>>

                          Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp location.



                          Jamie Niss Dunn
                          Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                          Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                          Troop Committee, Troop 509
                          Ham Lake, MN
                          Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                          Three Rivers District



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Corinna Jones
                          It s definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek. ... From: Jamie
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                            It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                            days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                            Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds



                            <<Overnight them...>>

                            Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                            would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                            delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                            location.



                            Jamie Niss Dunn
                            Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                            Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                            Troop Committee, Troop 509
                            Ham Lake, MN
                            Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                            Three Rivers District



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                            scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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                          • Tim Shea
                            Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a product of the 60s and his elevator didn t quite make it to the top floor, you know, a
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                              Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a
                              product of the 60s and his elevator didn't quite make it to the top floor,
                              you know, a few cards short of a full deck, not the sharpest knife in the
                              drawer..



                              I found out on day 3 or 4 on the trail when junior had a meltdown.



                              I'll save you the gory details but the dad & lad were instructed to bring up
                              the rear and to just maintain visibility of the "last" Scout in line in
                              front of them. The other Scouts did not want anything to do with the two and
                              neither did the adults on the trip. This guy has a long history of being,
                              shall we say a non-conformist, non-team player.



                              Made for a interesting fun week!



                              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Corinna Jones
                              Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:50 AM
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                              It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of

                              days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                              Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                              <<Overnight them...>>

                              Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                              would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                              delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                              location.

                              Jamie Niss Dunn
                              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                              Troop Committee, Troop 509
                              Ham Lake, MN
                              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                              Three Rivers District

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                              For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                              scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>

                              Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Connie Knie
                              Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                                Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so incredible about getting stuff to scouts on the trail. One of my guys had his boots explode and we got some delivered on hroseback!!

                                Connie

                                --- On Fri, 5/4/12, Corinna Jones <corinnajones@...> wrote:

                                It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                                days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • eaglemom53
                                My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                                  My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and already in the "crazed hunger-man" thing! And I can think of plenty of places in a camp where I wouldn't want a boy with poor impulse control....rock climbing, shooting sports, the waterfront, to just name a few. Even on his meds, Sam managed to cut his finger badly enough to need stitches. But, bless the camp staff's hearts, they stuck with him, and he earned all the merit badges he was working on, including Rifle Shooting (not too hard), and Swimming (they ductaped a plastic bag around his hand).

                                  As far as insomnia goes, there are some medications like Strattera that aren't stimulants, which helps at night.

                                  Lucinda
                                • Scouter Chuck
                                  Chiming in on this thread, again. The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something that was popular in the 80 s, I believe. Unfortunately, while most
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 6, 2012
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                                    Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                    The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                    that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                    while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                    it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                    where it _never_ goes away.

                                    We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                    the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                    staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                    I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                    with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                    There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                    of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                    imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                    meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                    the adults, or the unit.

                                    A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                    divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                    the other can't or won't see.

                                    Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                    summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                    such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                    somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                    some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                    meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                    how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                    One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                    it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                    delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                    years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                    _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                    Just a $0.02 rant.

                                    YiS,

                                    Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                    I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                    Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                    District Committee Member at Large
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                    -- Stephen R. Covey
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                                  • Thomas Roberts
                                    I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 8, 2012
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                                      I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                       
                                      I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                       
                                      Tom R


                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                                       
                                      Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                      The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                      that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                      while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                      it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                      where it _never_ goes away.

                                      We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                      the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                      staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                      I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                      with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                      There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                      of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                      imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                      meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                      the adults, or the unit.

                                      A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                      divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                      the other can't or won't see.

                                      Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                      summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                      such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                      somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                      some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                      meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                      how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                      One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                      it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                      delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                      years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                      _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                      Just a $0.02 rant.

                                      YiS,

                                      Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                      I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                      Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                      District Committee Member at Large
                                      ----------------------------------------------------------
                                      "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                      -- Stephen R. Covey
                                      ----------------------------------------------------------



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Scouter Chuck
                                      Thomas Roberts wrote: [Edited for slight brevity] ... ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_ individualized. What works for one brother may
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 8, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thomas Roberts wrote:

                                        [Edited for slight brevity]
                                        > ... When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated,
                                        > ... We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected. Her first
                                        > comments were about limiting meds and trying different
                                        > approaches. Several of which we had tried and failed, with
                                        > the oldest son.

                                        ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_
                                        individualized. What works for one brother may not work for
                                        the other. I'm not saying that these would have worked, but
                                        some of them could have. It's the same for _all_ forms of
                                        ADHD.

                                        Your experience is like the parents who finally agree to
                                        medicate their child, only to have him/her turn into a
                                        "zombie". So, after that experience, they never allow or
                                        try meds again. In reality, what their child got was most
                                        likely the wrong med, and/or at the wrong dose.

                                        > That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".
                                        > By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though
                                        > she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed
                                        > the medication."

                                        Any doctor who treats ADHD professionally, and doesn't
                                        believe in medication for children, is not one that I would
                                        recommend or send a child to. Most parents of ADHD kids that
                                        I know would literally give up their right arm if they could
                                        get a _reliable_ treatment for their child's ADHD, that
                                        didn't require medications.

                                        Even Strattera is dangerous, in the same way that cholesterol
                                        meds are dangerous, because of the potential that they can
                                        build up in the liver and damage it.

                                        > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds
                                        > either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid
                                        > who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent
                                        > refuse to believe there is a problem.

                                        Ain't that the truth.

                                        YiS,

                                        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                        District Committee Member at Large
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                        -- Stephen R. Covey
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                                      • Herb
                                        My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 11, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway my point is sometimes it is the parents and teachers that need medication to show more patience and understanding rather than use the broad brush to cover up their inability to cope.

                                          Herb d

                                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Roberts <minisinkbuffalo@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                          >  
                                          > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                          >  
                                          > Tom R
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          > Chiming in on this thread, again.
                                          >
                                          > The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                          > that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                          > while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                          > it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                          > where it _never_ goes away.
                                          >
                                          > We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                          > the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                          > staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                          > I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                          > with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".
                                          >
                                          > There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                          > of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                          > imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                          > meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                          > the adults, or the unit.
                                          >
                                          > A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                          > divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                          > the other can't or won't see.
                                          >
                                          > Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                          > summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                          > such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                          > somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                          > some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                          > meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                          > how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.
                                          >
                                          > One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                          > it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                          > delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                          > years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                          > _new_ treatment plan is determined.
                                          >
                                          > Just a $0.02 rant.
                                          >
                                          > YiS,
                                          >
                                          > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                          > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                          > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                          > District Committee Member at Large
                                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                          > -- Stephen R. Covey
                                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
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