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Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

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  • Phyllis Krasnokutsky
    One of the things we require of all parents is a med notification form so we are aware of what the kid is on at all times.  We used one that NCAC used to have
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 25, 2012
      One of the things we require of all parents is a med notification form so we are aware of what the kid is on at all times.  We used one that NCAC used to have for goshen a few years back and modified it.  On our permission slips we also ask that if we have the latest med form and physical - just in case there are any changes since the last form.

       
      Phyllis Krasnokutsky
      mdscouter@...
      (H) 301.475.3869
      (W) 301.475.2846 x1012
      (C) 301.332.5242

      "Every scout deserves a trained leader"


      ________________________________
      From: "mark.ellis21@..." <mark.ellis21@...>
      To: scouter t <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: mark.ellis21@...
      Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:39 AM
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds


       


      Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.

      However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization allows them to do .  See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the  "BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).

      Mark Ellis

      Troop 26

      Stafford, VA

      Prescriptions

      The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify this for specific camp operation.

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...>
      To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

       

      I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
       
      With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

      - Art
      --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... > wrote:

      From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... >
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@... >
      Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM

       

      Mike Clark wrote:

      > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
      > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
      > to all their Unit Leaders.

      Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
      HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
      still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

      It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
      kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
      like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

      Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
      setting to reply to all.

      YiS,

      Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
      I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
      Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
      District Committee Member at Large
      ----------------------------------------------------------
      "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
      -- Stephen R. Covey
      ----------------------------------------------------------

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • A. Dukovic
      Mark I m aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI and they re pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with youth and bottom line
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 25, 2012
        Mark I'm aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI and they're pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with youth and bottom line of the BSA policy is "they must be followed". 
         
        When we're all dealing with our youth members, my belief is that at their stage in life, they really don't usually understand the what and why when it comes to "medications" in a lot of cases; my program literature and discussions make it very clear that our staff will collect ALL medications to include OTC items during an initial shakedown of all gear.  Once we have all "meds", they, along with the parents specific instructions, are maintained by adult staff and dispensed at least three times a day, as needed by the youth, but we make it very clear up front, we will NOT force meds on any youth; when they want it, they need to come to us and it's dispensed, per our instructions, and documented.   Huge pain in the butt, yes but required by the law again in WI, and my past experiences make me very comfortable with ONLY doing it this way; these are youth remember and mom and dad are NOT there; on the other side, we always get parents that think were a
        Walgreen and can pass out "meds" literally at will?? 
         
        If we accept, as leaders, the responsibility for youth, parents do need to accept some responsibility as well, and the intent of the BSA policy agrees with that principle; we now ONLY accept the BSA med form and school records or other physicals will not work for us, and again, THAT make me comfortable as well with the very clear yes/no policies as stated.
         
        Like a lot of us, I've had to send youth home and to the hospital, and clear awareness of ALL the rules, up front, makes what we do as volunteers a lot easier for everyone and again, knowledge is power for all and truly does avoid confusion later.

        - Art
        --- On Wed, 4/25/12, mark.ellis21@... <mark.ellis21@...> wrote:

        From: mark.ellis21@... <mark.ellis21@...>
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
        To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: mark.ellis21@...
        Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 9:39 AM



         





        Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.

        However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization allows them to do .  See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the  "BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).

        Mark Ellis

        Troop 26

        Stafford, VA

        Prescriptions

        The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify this for specific camp operation.

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...>
        To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

         

        I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
         
        With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

        - Art
        --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... > wrote:

        From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... >
        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@... >
        Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM

         

        Mike Clark wrote:

        > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
        > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
        > to all their Unit Leaders.

        Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
        HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
        still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

        It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
        kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
        like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

        Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
        setting to reply to all.

        YiS,

        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
        District Committee Member at Large
        ----------------------------------------------------------
        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
        -- Stephen R. Covey
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scott Robertson
        At a Unit level we handle it as you describe below. We never force meds on the Scout either however we try to remind those who are shall we say a tad forgetful
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 25, 2012
          At a Unit level we handle it as you describe below. We never force meds
          on the Scout either however we try to remind those who are shall we say
          a tad forgetful about keeping track of time to remember to take them. I
          can tell you as a Scout I was the forgetful type and would become shall
          we say barley manageable with out it. I was not the type that climbed
          the walls I lived on the walls.

          Every summer camp I have been to as a Scout or adult is also ran same
          way. The meds go to the camp medic / nurse who dispenses them but the
          Scout has to go them they generally don't even do reminders. Though most
          summer camps an aduit may also elect to handle the meds assuming they
          are nothing to crazy or need special storage such as a fridg. We also
          once had a scout who had a breathing machine that required power so camp
          nurse handled that too.

          At NYLT we had a medic on staff who handle all meds for all youth staff
          or participant.

          Camporees I have chaired we have always left meds up to each unit to
          handle but requested they inform us so if anything happened it was in
          our records and our medic would also know ...

          We always required original prescription bottle and BSA medical form...

          At the same time as others said below Scouting is Local and each unit /
          event and group of leaders need to determine what will work best for
          them, their local laws, their scouts and parents.

          Anyway enough of my wacky babbling ... If you would like feel free to
          check out my "Cool Scout Graphics"
          http://insanescouter.org/blog/554/Cool_Scout_Graphics.html

          Scott Robertson
          http://insanescouter.org
          http://twitter.com/scoutbot
          http://facebook.com/scoutbot



          On 04/25/2012 06:10 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
          >
          > Mark I'm aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI
          > and they're pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with
          > youth and bottom line of the BSA policy is "they must be followed".
          >
          > When we're all dealing with our youth members, my belief is that at
          > their stage in life, they really don't usually understand the what and
          > why when it comes to "medications" in a lot of cases; my program
          > literature and discussions make it very clear that our staff will
          > collect ALL medications to include OTC items during an initial
          > shakedown of all gear. Once we have all "meds", they, along with the
          > parents specific instructions, are maintained by adult staff and
          > dispensed at least three times a day, as needed by the youth, but we
          > make it very clear up front, we will NOT force meds on any youth; when
          > they want it, they need to come to us and it's dispensed, per our
          > instructions, and documented. Huge pain in the butt, yes but
          > required by the law again in WI, and my past experiences make me very
          > comfortable with ONLY doing it this way; these are youth remember and
          > mom and dad are NOT there; on the other side, we always get parents
          > that think were a
          > Walgreen and can pass out "meds" literally at will??
          >
          > If we accept, as leaders, the responsibility for youth, parents do
          > need to accept some responsibility as well, and the intent of the BSA
          > policy agrees with that principle; we now ONLY accept the BSA med form
          > and school records or other physicals will not work for us, and again,
          > THAT make me comfortable as well with the very clear yes/no policies
          > as stated.
          >
          > Like a lot of us, I've had to send youth home and to the hospital, and
          > clear awareness of ALL the rules, up front, makes what we do as
          > volunteers a lot easier for everyone and again, knowledge is power
          > for all and truly does avoid confusion later.
          >
          > - Art
          > --- On Wed, 4/25/12, mark.ellis21@...
          > <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net> <mark.ellis21@...
          > <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>> wrote:
          >
          > From: mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>
          > <mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>>
          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
          > To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
          > Cc: mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>
          > Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 9:39 AM
          >
          >
          >
          > Art: I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders
          > coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed
          > medications in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.
          >
          > However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding
          > prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what
          > they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization
          > allows them to do . See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The
          > Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the "BSA does not mandate or
          > necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).
          >
          > Mark Ellis
          >
          > Troop 26
          >
          > Stafford, VA
          >
          > Prescriptions
          >
          > The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the
          > individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or
          > guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can
          > agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the
          > necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate
          > or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are
          > more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify
          > this for specific camp operation.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          > From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@... <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com>>
          > To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
          > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
          >
          >
          >
          > I wish this never happens, but things like this do. Had a youth on
          > some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad;
          > when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about
          > the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break
          > situation that could NOT be ignored?? The youth advised he always
          > went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy"
          > (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got
          > them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed
          > all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the
          > prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
          >
          > With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN
          > ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're
          > don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple
          > common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!
          >
          > - Art
          > --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@...
          > <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net> > wrote:
          >
          > From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net> >
          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
          > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@...
          > <mailto:taskiagi261%40comcast.net> >
          > Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM
          >
          >
          >
          > Mike Clark wrote:
          >
          > > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
          > > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then
          > forward
          > > to all their Unit Leaders.
          >
          > Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago,
          > before
          > HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
          > still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.
          >
          > It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws
          > that keep
          > kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should
          > magically act
          > like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.
          >
          > Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit
          > by the Group
          > setting to reply to all.
          >
          > YiS,
          >
          > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
          > <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net>
          > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
          > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
          > District Committee Member at Large
          > ----------------------------------------------------------
          > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
          > -- Stephen R. Covey
          > ----------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Connie Knie
          I don t know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 28, 2012
            I don't know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts use them, and make sure they are taken, but we don't hold or dispense them. I know some of the issues that have been discussed here are scary and that is why the guidelines for your troops are that way, but we have not ever had issues like this ever. Who's to say that something won't happen some day? But even troops who confiscate and dose meds are not totally safe from the potential of scary times.
             
            Flame suit on.

            Connie

            With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

            -

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • A. Dukovic
            Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 28, 2012
              Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
               
              NOT criticism, just curious please??  In our case, we run a week long course and CANNOT leave any "meds" in the hands of youth by state law; once everyone understands ALL the rules, this is very managable for us.  Again, we maintain custody of everything and the youth are responsible for taking them when THEY need them and we NEVER "force feed". 

              - Art
              --- On Sat, 4/28/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

              From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, April 28, 2012, 2:15 PM



               



              I don't know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts use them, and make sure they are taken, but we don't hold or dispense them. I know some of the issues that have been discussed here are scary and that is why the guidelines for your troops are that way, but we have not ever had issues like this ever. Who's to say that something won't happen some day? But even troops who confiscate and dose meds are not totally safe from the potential of scary times.
               
              Flame suit on.

              Connie

              With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

              -

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Connie Knie
              Hi Art, As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and
              Message 6 of 29 , May 1, 2012
                Hi Art,
                As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.
                 
                We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this with these particular parents.

                Connie

                --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
                 
                NOT criticism, just curious please?? 

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • 'Fred Skrotzki'
                NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we plan trips.
                Message 7 of 29 , May 1, 2012
                  NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it
                  more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we
                  plan trips. Crossing state lines are even more fun in some directions.

                  We have a form that the parents fill out in regards to the meds. Some can
                  be skipped and forgotten (generic allergy issues) while others can't
                  (behavioral, medically necessary). For boys that fall into the latter
                  category they and their parents agree that if they refuse to take the meds
                  they will removed from the location/event and the parents will pick them up
                  ASAP or cover all costs to get the boy home which can include the fees for
                  two others to follow Youth Protection.

                  Sad but we had to move it this due to a boy refusing Meds at summer camp 400
                  miles away from home several years ago.

                  Parents are also informed that all boys with meds need to check in with a
                  specific leader for a given event. We control the meds unless the boy's
                  parent happens to be with us and we agree otherwise. Exceptions are
                  Inhalers and Epipens that might be needed in a rush.

                  Where do we keep them? We have a small safe attached to the troop trailer
                  which is where we store things when possible.


                  _____

                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Connie Knie
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds




                  Hi Art,
                  As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by
                  the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take
                  them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and
                  all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.

                  We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his
                  meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this
                  with these particular parents.

                  Connie

                  --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                  <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                  Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee
                  bylaws, then great!! If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is
                  much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times
                  a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely
                  require a parent to attend a campout??

                  NOT criticism, just curious please??

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • A. Dukovic
                  Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for volunteers ; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses,
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 1, 2012
                    Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                     
                    We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues, as they allegedly stunt their growth if taken all year; now the issues schools have, Scouting also has, so we don't deny the youth Scouting, we just REQUIRE the parents to attend or be on "stand by" in case junior gets outta control!!    NOT something we like to do, but find it a necessity at times so everyone has the opportunity to take full advantage of everything Scouting has to offer; something Scouting does NOT want to get involved with but again, a real necessity when you deal with youth these days.  That new BSA medical form, with all the doctor's checks and balances, is really a life-saver we've found with "professional" folks making all the decisions; we have a simple "Med Card" we use for all OTC stuff and that works very well for us.

                    - Art
                    --- On Tue, 5/1/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

                    From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, May 1, 2012, 1:12 PM



                     



                    Hi Art,
                    As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.
                     
                    We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this with these particular parents.

                    Connie

                    --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                    Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
                     
                    NOT criticism, just curious please?? 

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Connie Knie
                    I guess what I really don t understand is the mentality of parents who just don t stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 2, 2012
                      I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

                      Connie

                      --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                      Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                       
                      We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dan Hammond, Sr.
                      Aahhh. The old let s take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                        Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp" trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on meds in the first place.  Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                         
                         Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                            Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@... connie_knie
                            Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                        I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

                        Connie

                        --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                        Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                         
                        We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,



                        Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                        Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                        Overtrained Scout Leader


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Corinna Jones
                        You share my husband s pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing merit badges,
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                          You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
                          structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
                          merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
                          cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
                          boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
                          because many are oblivious.

                          Corinna


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
                          Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
                          To: Scout Trainer
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                          Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                          at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                          especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                          meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                          until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                        • lynntw83
                          I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                            I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he takes his meds, or a parent comes along. It's grossly unfair to the leaders and other boys to stick them with dealing with a kid who's impossible to manage because he's taking a medication break. That kid doesn't have any business detracting from someone else's experience at camp.

                            But, I'm working with a Venturing Crew now, and we don't have any of that just now.

                            Lynn Thomas


                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Corinna Jones" <corinnajones@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
                            > structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
                            > merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
                            > cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
                            > boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
                            > because many are oblivious.
                            >
                            > Corinna
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
                            > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
                            > To: Scout Trainer
                            > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                            >
                            > Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                            > at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                            > especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                            > meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                            > until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                            >
                          • eaglemom53
                            To me, taking a med break for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an insulin break . As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                              To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                              Lucinda in VA
                            • Thomas Roberts
                              Lucinda,  Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                Lucinda,
                                 Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and delayed development.  Most kids may make this up later in their teens.  I had 3 of 4 sons with ADD.  The doctor said the same to us.  Even more than being "dumb" on the weekends and school vacations is the hassle for us.  Who wants to deal with the lack of impulse control and resulting attitudes when we are dealing with them on the weekends.
                                 
                                Our kids have all been very active in both Scouts and sports.  If a kid has a Scout event then I want the kid on his meds, mine or someone else’s.  If they have a sport or school event then the kid needs to be focused to keep up with the action.
                                 
                                A bigger problem for Scouters is that the ADD meds can leave the youth with insomnia.  Then they need to take melatonin or some other remedy before bedtime or you may find the boy wandering the campsite at 1 or 2 AM.  (Melatonin is a non-narcotic remedy that replaces naturally occurring melatonin that may be missing in some ADD children.)
                                 
                                Tom R
                                Scouter in NY State

                                ________________________________
                                From: eaglemom53 <eaglemom53@...>
                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 8:24 AM
                                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                                 
                                To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                                Lucinda in VA




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Tim Shea
                                Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who didn t think to bring the meds.. From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                  Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                                  didn't think to bring the meds..



                                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                                  To: Scout Trainer
                                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                  Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                  at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                  especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                  meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                  until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                                  Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                                  Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                                  <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                                  Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                                  I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                                  don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                                  scouting.......

                                  Connie

                                  --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                                  <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                                  Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                                  for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                                  refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                                  the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                                  We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                                  Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                                  Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                                  Overtrained Scout Leader

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Corinna Jones
                                  Overnight them... ... From: Tim Shea Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                    Overnight them...

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Tim Shea
                                    Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM
                                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                                    Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                                    didn't think to bring the meds..



                                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                    Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                                    To: Scout Trainer
                                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                    Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                    at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                    especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                    meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                    until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                                    Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                                    Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                                    <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                                    Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                                    I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                                    don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                                    scouting.......

                                    Connie

                                    --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                                    <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                                    Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                                    for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                                    refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                                    the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                                    We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                                    Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                                    Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                                    Overtrained Scout Leader

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                  • Jamie Niss Dunn
                                    Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                      <<Overnight them...>>

                                      Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp location.



                                      Jamie Niss Dunn
                                      Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                      Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                      Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                      Ham Lake, MN
                                      Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                      Three Rivers District



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Corinna Jones
                                      It s definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek. ... From: Jamie
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                        It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                                        days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                                        Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds



                                        <<Overnight them...>>

                                        Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                                        would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                                        delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                                        location.



                                        Jamie Niss Dunn
                                        Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                        Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                        Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                        Ham Lake, MN
                                        Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                        Three Rivers District



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------------------------------

                                        For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                        scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                                        Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Tim Shea
                                        Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a product of the 60s and his elevator didn t quite make it to the top floor, you know, a
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                          Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a
                                          product of the 60s and his elevator didn't quite make it to the top floor,
                                          you know, a few cards short of a full deck, not the sharpest knife in the
                                          drawer..



                                          I found out on day 3 or 4 on the trail when junior had a meltdown.



                                          I'll save you the gory details but the dad & lad were instructed to bring up
                                          the rear and to just maintain visibility of the "last" Scout in line in
                                          front of them. The other Scouts did not want anything to do with the two and
                                          neither did the adults on the trip. This guy has a long history of being,
                                          shall we say a non-conformist, non-team player.



                                          Made for a interesting fun week!



                                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of Corinna Jones
                                          Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:50 AM
                                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                          It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of

                                          days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                                          Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                                          <<Overnight them...>>

                                          Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                                          would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                                          delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                                          location.

                                          Jamie Niss Dunn
                                          Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                          Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                          Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                          Ham Lake, MN
                                          Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                          Three Rivers District

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          ------------------------------------

                                          For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                          scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>

                                          Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Connie Knie
                                          Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                            Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so incredible about getting stuff to scouts on the trail. One of my guys had his boots explode and we got some delivered on hroseback!!

                                            Connie

                                            --- On Fri, 5/4/12, Corinna Jones <corinnajones@...> wrote:

                                            It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                                            days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • eaglemom53
                                            My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and
                                            Message 21 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                              My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and already in the "crazed hunger-man" thing! And I can think of plenty of places in a camp where I wouldn't want a boy with poor impulse control....rock climbing, shooting sports, the waterfront, to just name a few. Even on his meds, Sam managed to cut his finger badly enough to need stitches. But, bless the camp staff's hearts, they stuck with him, and he earned all the merit badges he was working on, including Rifle Shooting (not too hard), and Swimming (they ductaped a plastic bag around his hand).

                                              As far as insomnia goes, there are some medications like Strattera that aren't stimulants, which helps at night.

                                              Lucinda
                                            • Scouter Chuck
                                              Chiming in on this thread, again. The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something that was popular in the 80 s, I believe. Unfortunately, while most
                                              Message 22 of 29 , May 6, 2012
                                                Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                                The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                where it _never_ goes away.

                                                We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                                There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                the adults, or the unit.

                                                A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                the other can't or won't see.

                                                Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                                One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                                Just a $0.02 rant.

                                                YiS,

                                                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                District Committee Member at Large
                                                ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                ----------------------------------------------------------
                                              • Thomas Roberts
                                                I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking
                                                Message 23 of 29 , May 8, 2012
                                                  I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                                   
                                                  I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                                   
                                                  Tom R


                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                                                   
                                                  Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                                  The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                  that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                  while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                  it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                  where it _never_ goes away.

                                                  We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                  the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                  staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                  I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                  with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                                  There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                  of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                  imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                  meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                  the adults, or the unit.

                                                  A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                  divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                  the other can't or won't see.

                                                  Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                  summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                  such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                  somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                  some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                  meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                  how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                                  One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                  it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                  delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                  years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                  _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                                  Just a $0.02 rant.

                                                  YiS,

                                                  Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                  I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                  Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                  District Committee Member at Large
                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                  "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                  -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Scouter Chuck
                                                  Thomas Roberts wrote: [Edited for slight brevity] ... ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_ individualized. What works for one brother may
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , May 8, 2012
                                                    Thomas Roberts wrote:

                                                    [Edited for slight brevity]
                                                    > ... When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated,
                                                    > ... We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected. Her first
                                                    > comments were about limiting meds and trying different
                                                    > approaches. Several of which we had tried and failed, with
                                                    > the oldest son.

                                                    ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_
                                                    individualized. What works for one brother may not work for
                                                    the other. I'm not saying that these would have worked, but
                                                    some of them could have. It's the same for _all_ forms of
                                                    ADHD.

                                                    Your experience is like the parents who finally agree to
                                                    medicate their child, only to have him/her turn into a
                                                    "zombie". So, after that experience, they never allow or
                                                    try meds again. In reality, what their child got was most
                                                    likely the wrong med, and/or at the wrong dose.

                                                    > That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".
                                                    > By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though
                                                    > she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed
                                                    > the medication."

                                                    Any doctor who treats ADHD professionally, and doesn't
                                                    believe in medication for children, is not one that I would
                                                    recommend or send a child to. Most parents of ADHD kids that
                                                    I know would literally give up their right arm if they could
                                                    get a _reliable_ treatment for their child's ADHD, that
                                                    didn't require medications.

                                                    Even Strattera is dangerous, in the same way that cholesterol
                                                    meds are dangerous, because of the potential that they can
                                                    build up in the liver and damage it.

                                                    > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds
                                                    > either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid
                                                    > who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent
                                                    > refuse to believe there is a problem.

                                                    Ain't that the truth.

                                                    YiS,

                                                    Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                    I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                    Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                    District Committee Member at Large
                                                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                    "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                    -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                  • Herb
                                                    My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , May 11, 2012
                                                      My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway my point is sometimes it is the parents and teachers that need medication to show more patience and understanding rather than use the broad brush to cover up their inability to cope.

                                                      Herb d

                                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Roberts <minisinkbuffalo@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                                      >  
                                                      > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                                      >  
                                                      > Tom R
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ________________________________
                                                      > From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >  
                                                      > Chiming in on this thread, again.
                                                      >
                                                      > The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                      > that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                      > while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                      > it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                      > where it _never_ goes away.
                                                      >
                                                      > We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                      > the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                      > staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                      > I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                      > with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".
                                                      >
                                                      > There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                      > of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                      > imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                      > meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                      > the adults, or the unit.
                                                      >
                                                      > A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                      > divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                      > the other can't or won't see.
                                                      >
                                                      > Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                      > summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                      > such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                      > somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                      > some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                      > meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                      > how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.
                                                      >
                                                      > One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                      > it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                      > delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                      > years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                      > _new_ treatment plan is determined.
                                                      >
                                                      > Just a $0.02 rant.
                                                      >
                                                      > YiS,
                                                      >
                                                      > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                      > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                      > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                      > District Committee Member at Large
                                                      > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                      > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                      > -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                      > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
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