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Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

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  • Mike Clark
    Chuck, My condolences on the passing of your Father.  My Father died four years ago from a long battle with Cancer.  Your message on handling medications is
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 24 2:35 PM
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      Chuck,



      My condolences on the passing of your Father.  My Father died four years

      ago from a long battle with Cancer. 



      Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one

      which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward

      to all their Unit Leaders.



      In Short,very few, if any, BSA Summer Camps allow youth members

      to administer their own medications or the specific scenario you mention

      where a Unit Leader assumes that responsibility.   This would include youth

      staff members, too.



      State Laws will dictate how such meds, even OTC's are to be distributed

      by whom, when, where, etc... 



      That scenario would not be allowed here in New England where any prescribed

      medication for a youth member in a long-term camp would be given to a properly

      training Health Officer.   Any Health Officer would have their License at jeopardy,

      here!!



      The exceptions to this would be epi- pens and inhalers by youth & adult  members. 

      Diabetics are a separate group, usually requiring consistant monitoring and storage

      of insulin.



      Also, a good & alert Unit Leader would know which Scout needs what medications,

      when, and why without violating any HIPPA concerns.



      The Residential Camps in CT I have been to as both a Unit Leader & Staff member

      provide the Top Leader a list of those Scouts who need to receive their medications

      with dosing in order to prevent the scenario you described. 



      A simple personal reminder to the Scout in the first day or two is all that is needed. 



      A Good Camp nurse or Health Officer usually brings such missed dosages directly

      to the Campsite Leader or to all the Unit Leaders at common meeting conducted by

      the Camp Director each morning. 



      Bottom line:  As long as the Scout maintains his maintenance MEDS regularly, everyone

      will be happy.  What we as leaders do not know is did "mommy or Daddy have altered John's

      meds on their own accorde, usually because School ended a couple weeks ago...."



      Since I take meds daily for a chronic illness, I know the cause & effect issues.  Knowing

      which Scouts are doing such affords me a better opportunity to ensure the dosages are met

      timely.    I am not a licensed Medical professional but my science background & personal

      health issues afford me a unique understanding on such matters.



      Maybe my Medical ID bracelet opens these doors with parents.....


      Michael E. Clark
      taskiagi261@...



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scouter Chuck
      ... Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_ still
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 24 7:45 PM
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        Mike Clark wrote:

        > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
        > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
        > to all their Unit Leaders.

        Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
        HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
        still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

        It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
        kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
        like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

        Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
        setting to reply to all.

        YiS,

        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
        District Committee Member at Large
        -------------------------------------------------------------------
        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
        -- Stephen R. Covey
        -------------------------------------------------------------------
      • A. Dukovic
        I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 24 8:00 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
           
          With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

          - Art
          --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...> wrote:

          From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: "Mike Clark" <taskiagi261@...>
          Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM



           



          Mike Clark wrote:

          > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
          > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
          > to all their Unit Leaders.

          Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
          HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
          still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

          It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
          kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
          like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

          Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
          setting to reply to all.

          YiS,

          Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
          I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
          Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
          District Committee Member at Large
          ----------------------------------------------------------
          "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
          -- Stephen R. Covey
          ----------------------------------------------------------







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mark.ellis21@comcast.net
          Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 25 7:39 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.



            However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization allows them to do .  See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the  "BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).



            Mark Ellis

            Troop 26

            Stafford, VA



            Prescriptions



            The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify this for specific camp operation.

            ----- Original Message -----


            From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...>
            To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

             




            I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
             
            With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

            - Art
            --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... > wrote:

            From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... >
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@... >
            Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM

             

            Mike Clark wrote:

            > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
            > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
            > to all their Unit Leaders.

            Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
            HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
            still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

            It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
            kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
            like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

            Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
            setting to reply to all.

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
            District Committee Member at Large
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
            -- Stephen R. Covey
            ----------------------------------------------------------

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Phyllis Krasnokutsky
            One of the things we require of all parents is a med notification form so we are aware of what the kid is on at all times.  We used one that NCAC used to have
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 25 8:16 AM
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              One of the things we require of all parents is a med notification form so we are aware of what the kid is on at all times.  We used one that NCAC used to have for goshen a few years back and modified it.  On our permission slips we also ask that if we have the latest med form and physical - just in case there are any changes since the last form.

               
              Phyllis Krasnokutsky
              mdscouter@...
              (H) 301.475.3869
              (W) 301.475.2846 x1012
              (C) 301.332.5242

              "Every scout deserves a trained leader"


              ________________________________
              From: "mark.ellis21@..." <mark.ellis21@...>
              To: scouter t <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: mark.ellis21@...
              Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:39 AM
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds


               


              Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.

              However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization allows them to do .  See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the  "BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).

              Mark Ellis

              Troop 26

              Stafford, VA

              Prescriptions

              The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify this for specific camp operation.

              ----- Original Message -----

              From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...>
              To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

               

              I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
               
              With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

              - Art
              --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... > wrote:

              From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... >
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@... >
              Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM

               

              Mike Clark wrote:

              > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
              > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
              > to all their Unit Leaders.

              Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
              HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
              still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

              It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
              kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
              like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

              Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
              setting to reply to all.

              YiS,

              Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
              I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
              Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
              District Committee Member at Large
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
              -- Stephen R. Covey
              ----------------------------------------------------------

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • A. Dukovic
              Mark I m aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI and they re pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with youth and bottom line
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 25 6:10 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Mark I'm aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI and they're pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with youth and bottom line of the BSA policy is "they must be followed". 
                 
                When we're all dealing with our youth members, my belief is that at their stage in life, they really don't usually understand the what and why when it comes to "medications" in a lot of cases; my program literature and discussions make it very clear that our staff will collect ALL medications to include OTC items during an initial shakedown of all gear.  Once we have all "meds", they, along with the parents specific instructions, are maintained by adult staff and dispensed at least three times a day, as needed by the youth, but we make it very clear up front, we will NOT force meds on any youth; when they want it, they need to come to us and it's dispensed, per our instructions, and documented.   Huge pain in the butt, yes but required by the law again in WI, and my past experiences make me very comfortable with ONLY doing it this way; these are youth remember and mom and dad are NOT there; on the other side, we always get parents that think were a
                Walgreen and can pass out "meds" literally at will?? 
                 
                If we accept, as leaders, the responsibility for youth, parents do need to accept some responsibility as well, and the intent of the BSA policy agrees with that principle; we now ONLY accept the BSA med form and school records or other physicals will not work for us, and again, THAT make me comfortable as well with the very clear yes/no policies as stated.
                 
                Like a lot of us, I've had to send youth home and to the hospital, and clear awareness of ALL the rules, up front, makes what we do as volunteers a lot easier for everyone and again, knowledge is power for all and truly does avoid confusion later.

                - Art
                --- On Wed, 4/25/12, mark.ellis21@... <mark.ellis21@...> wrote:

                From: mark.ellis21@... <mark.ellis21@...>
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: mark.ellis21@...
                Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 9:39 AM



                 





                Art:  I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed medications  in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.

                However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization allows them to do .  See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the  "BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).

                Mark Ellis

                Troop 26

                Stafford, VA

                Prescriptions

                The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify this for specific camp operation.

                ----- Original Message -----

                From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...>
                To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds

                 

                I wish this never happens, but things like this do.  Had a youth on some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad; when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break situation that could NOT be ignored??  The youth advised he always went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy" (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
                 
                With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

                - Art
                --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... > wrote:

                From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... >
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@... >
                Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM

                 

                Mike Clark wrote:

                > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
                > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then forward
                > to all their Unit Leaders.

                Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago, before
                HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
                still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.

                It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws that keep
                kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should magically act
                like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.

                Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit by the Group
                setting to reply to all.

                YiS,

                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
                I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                District Committee Member at Large
                ----------------------------------------------------------
                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                -- Stephen R. Covey
                ----------------------------------------------------------

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Scott Robertson
                At a Unit level we handle it as you describe below. We never force meds on the Scout either however we try to remind those who are shall we say a tad forgetful
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 25 6:32 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  At a Unit level we handle it as you describe below. We never force meds
                  on the Scout either however we try to remind those who are shall we say
                  a tad forgetful about keeping track of time to remember to take them. I
                  can tell you as a Scout I was the forgetful type and would become shall
                  we say barley manageable with out it. I was not the type that climbed
                  the walls I lived on the walls.

                  Every summer camp I have been to as a Scout or adult is also ran same
                  way. The meds go to the camp medic / nurse who dispenses them but the
                  Scout has to go them they generally don't even do reminders. Though most
                  summer camps an aduit may also elect to handle the meds assuming they
                  are nothing to crazy or need special storage such as a fridg. We also
                  once had a scout who had a breathing machine that required power so camp
                  nurse handled that too.

                  At NYLT we had a medic on staff who handle all meds for all youth staff
                  or participant.

                  Camporees I have chaired we have always left meds up to each unit to
                  handle but requested they inform us so if anything happened it was in
                  our records and our medic would also know ...

                  We always required original prescription bottle and BSA medical form...

                  At the same time as others said below Scouting is Local and each unit /
                  event and group of leaders need to determine what will work best for
                  them, their local laws, their scouts and parents.

                  Anyway enough of my wacky babbling ... If you would like feel free to
                  check out my "Cool Scout Graphics"
                  http://insanescouter.org/blog/554/Cool_Scout_Graphics.html

                  Scott Robertson
                  http://insanescouter.org
                  http://twitter.com/scoutbot
                  http://facebook.com/scoutbot



                  On 04/25/2012 06:10 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
                  >
                  > Mark I'm aware of the BSA policy, thanks; we deal with the state of WI
                  > and they're pretty specific on what we can and cannot leave with
                  > youth and bottom line of the BSA policy is "they must be followed".
                  >
                  > When we're all dealing with our youth members, my belief is that at
                  > their stage in life, they really don't usually understand the what and
                  > why when it comes to "medications" in a lot of cases; my program
                  > literature and discussions make it very clear that our staff will
                  > collect ALL medications to include OTC items during an initial
                  > shakedown of all gear. Once we have all "meds", they, along with the
                  > parents specific instructions, are maintained by adult staff and
                  > dispensed at least three times a day, as needed by the youth, but we
                  > make it very clear up front, we will NOT force meds on any youth; when
                  > they want it, they need to come to us and it's dispensed, per our
                  > instructions, and documented. Huge pain in the butt, yes but
                  > required by the law again in WI, and my past experiences make me very
                  > comfortable with ONLY doing it this way; these are youth remember and
                  > mom and dad are NOT there; on the other side, we always get parents
                  > that think were a
                  > Walgreen and can pass out "meds" literally at will??
                  >
                  > If we accept, as leaders, the responsibility for youth, parents do
                  > need to accept some responsibility as well, and the intent of the BSA
                  > policy agrees with that principle; we now ONLY accept the BSA med form
                  > and school records or other physicals will not work for us, and again,
                  > THAT make me comfortable as well with the very clear yes/no policies
                  > as stated.
                  >
                  > Like a lot of us, I've had to send youth home and to the hospital, and
                  > clear awareness of ALL the rules, up front, makes what we do as
                  > volunteers a lot easier for everyone and again, knowledge is power
                  > for all and truly does avoid confusion later.
                  >
                  > - Art
                  > --- On Wed, 4/25/12, mark.ellis21@...
                  > <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net> <mark.ellis21@...
                  > <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>
                  > <mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>>
                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                  > To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > Cc: mark.ellis21@... <mailto:mark.ellis21%40comcast.net>
                  > Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 9:39 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Art: I personally agree with your statement regarding a dult leaders
                  > coordinating with parents and ensuring Scouts take their prescribed
                  > medications in a way that protects the Scout's privacy and safety.
                  >
                  > However, leaders should be aware of BSA's policy regarding
                  > prescription medication , and then make up their own minds as to what
                  > they are willing to do or what their unit/chartering organization
                  > allows them to do . See excerpt below from the Jan 2012 ed. of The
                  > Guide to Safe Scouting, especially the "BSA does not mandate or
                  > necessarily encourage the leader to do so" statement (my emphasis added).
                  >
                  > Mark Ellis
                  >
                  > Troop 26
                  >
                  > Stafford, VA
                  >
                  > Prescriptions
                  >
                  > The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the
                  > individual taking the medication and/or that individual’s parent or
                  > guardian. A leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can
                  > agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a youth takes the
                  > necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA does not mandate
                  > or necessarily encourage the leader to do so . Also, if state laws are
                  > more limiting, they must be followed. BSA camp standards may modify
                  > this for specific camp operation.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > From: "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@... <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com>>
                  > To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:00:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I wish this never happens, but things like this do. Had a youth on
                  > some very heavy meds which only his mom knew about and not the dad;
                  > when there was a question and I called the dad, he knew nothing about
                  > the youth taking ANY MEDICATIONS and this was a make-or-break
                  > situation that could NOT be ignored?? The youth advised he always
                  > went to the doctor with his mom ONLY and dad was "always too busy"
                  > (sound familiar??) and the youth knew exactly what pharmacy they got
                  > them from as well; once mom was eventually contacted, she confirmed
                  > all this and promised NEVER to send the boy out without the
                  > prescription bottles, which was the cause for the initial problem.
                  >
                  > With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN
                  > ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're
                  > don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple
                  > common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!
                  >
                  > - Art
                  > --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Scouter Chuck < antelope95@...
                  > <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net> > wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Scouter Chuck < antelope95@... <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net> >
                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                  > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Cc: "Mike Clark" < taskiagi261@...
                  > <mailto:taskiagi261%40comcast.net> >
                  > Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 9:45 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mike Clark wrote:
                  >
                  > > Your message on handling medications is an extremely important one
                  > > which I hope many here on this group, read at least twice, and then
                  > forward
                  > > to all their Unit Leaders.
                  >
                  > Actually, the incident I described happened about 15 or so years ago,
                  > before
                  > HIPPA and other privacy concerns became an issue. However, it _was_
                  > still when kids got teased a lot for taking meds for ADHD.
                  >
                  > It would be unlikely for that situation to occur today, with the laws
                  > that keep
                  > kids complete kids until they turn 18, after which they should
                  > magically act
                  > like adults, with the wisdom of adults, with absolutely no experience.
                  >
                  > Also, I intended only to send the note directly to Bill, but got bit
                  > by the Group
                  > setting to reply to all.
                  >
                  > YiS,
                  >
                  > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto: antelope95@...
                  > <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net>
                  > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                  > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                  > District Committee Member at Large
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                  > -- Stephen R. Covey
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Connie Knie
                  I don t know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 28 12:15 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I don't know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts use them, and make sure they are taken, but we don't hold or dispense them. I know some of the issues that have been discussed here are scary and that is why the guidelines for your troops are that way, but we have not ever had issues like this ever. Who's to say that something won't happen some day? But even troops who confiscate and dose meds are not totally safe from the potential of scary times.
                     
                    Flame suit on.

                    Connie

                    With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

                    -

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • A. Dukovic
                    Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 28 5:47 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
                       
                      NOT criticism, just curious please??  In our case, we run a week long course and CANNOT leave any "meds" in the hands of youth by state law; once everyone understands ALL the rules, this is very managable for us.  Again, we maintain custody of everything and the youth are responsible for taking them when THEY need them and we NEVER "force feed". 

                      - Art
                      --- On Sat, 4/28/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

                      From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, April 28, 2012, 2:15 PM



                       



                      I don't know how much this is gonna blow back at me but our troop has a strict policy that we will not dispense meds on weekend campouts. We know which scouts use them, and make sure they are taken, but we don't hold or dispense them. I know some of the issues that have been discussed here are scary and that is why the guidelines for your troops are that way, but we have not ever had issues like this ever. Who's to say that something won't happen some day? But even troops who confiscate and dose meds are not totally safe from the potential of scary times.
                       
                      Flame suit on.

                      Connie

                      With the new BSA medical form, all this is eliminated and yes, AN ADULT needs to dispense all meds to include OTC "stuff" if you're don't want "issues" folks; not just a good idea any more but simple common sense and SURVIVAL for leaders these days!!

                      -

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Connie Knie
                      Hi Art, As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 1, 2012
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                        Hi Art,
                        As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.
                         
                        We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this with these particular parents.

                        Connie

                        --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                        Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
                         
                        NOT criticism, just curious please?? 

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • 'Fred Skrotzki'
                        NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we plan trips.
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 1, 2012
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                          NY has strict laws about whom can dispense what to whom, etc., making it
                          more fun some counties have stricter laws so we need to be careful when we
                          plan trips. Crossing state lines are even more fun in some directions.

                          We have a form that the parents fill out in regards to the meds. Some can
                          be skipped and forgotten (generic allergy issues) while others can't
                          (behavioral, medically necessary). For boys that fall into the latter
                          category they and their parents agree that if they refuse to take the meds
                          they will removed from the location/event and the parents will pick them up
                          ASAP or cover all costs to get the boy home which can include the fees for
                          two others to follow Youth Protection.

                          Sad but we had to move it this due to a boy refusing Meds at summer camp 400
                          miles away from home several years ago.

                          Parents are also informed that all boys with meds need to check in with a
                          specific leader for a given event. We control the meds unless the boy's
                          parent happens to be with us and we agree otherwise. Exceptions are
                          Inhalers and Epipens that might be needed in a rush.

                          Where do we keep them? We have a small safe attached to the troop trailer
                          which is where we store things when possible.


                          _____

                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Connie Knie
                          Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds




                          Hi Art,
                          As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by
                          the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take
                          them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and
                          all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.

                          We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his
                          meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this
                          with these particular parents.

                          Connie

                          --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                          <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                          Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee
                          bylaws, then great!! If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is
                          much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times
                          a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely
                          require a parent to attend a campout??

                          NOT criticism, just curious please??

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • A. Dukovic
                          Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for volunteers ; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses,
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 1, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                             
                            We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues, as they allegedly stunt their growth if taken all year; now the issues schools have, Scouting also has, so we don't deny the youth Scouting, we just REQUIRE the parents to attend or be on "stand by" in case junior gets outta control!!    NOT something we like to do, but find it a necessity at times so everyone has the opportunity to take full advantage of everything Scouting has to offer; something Scouting does NOT want to get involved with but again, a real necessity when you deal with youth these days.  That new BSA medical form, with all the doctor's checks and balances, is really a life-saver we've found with "professional" folks making all the decisions; we have a simple "Med Card" we use for all OTC stuff and that works very well for us.

                            - Art
                            --- On Tue, 5/1/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

                            From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, May 1, 2012, 1:12 PM



                             



                            Hi Art,
                            As far as scouts who need meds more than just am and pm they are reminded by the adults in charge of overseeing their program and they go ahead and take them. If we are at summer camp we do bring nurses who set up a MASH tent and all meds are dispensed. If a scout misses a time he is sought out.
                             
                            We now have an interesting development where a scout is refusing to take his meds at camp. Just happened last weekend. We will now be addressing this with these particular parents.

                            Connie

                            --- On Sat, 4/28/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                            Connie, If your policy works both with both your state law and committee bylaws, then great!!   If everyone is on the same sheet of music, life is much easier for volunteers; some youth MUST HAVE their meds, multiple times a day for various reason(s) tho, and do you deny them Scouting or merely require a parent to attend a campout??
                             
                            NOT criticism, just curious please?? 

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Connie Knie
                            I guess what I really don t understand is the mentality of parents who just don t stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 2, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

                              Connie

                              --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                              Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                               
                              We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dan Hammond, Sr.
                              Aahhh. The old let s take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is at Summer Camp" trick.  Had it happen a couple of times.  Never fun, especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on meds in the first place.  Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                                 
                                 Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                                    Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@... connie_knie
                                    Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                                I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in scouting.......

                                Connie

                                --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...> wrote:

                                Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with the boy, something you CAN easily require.
                                 
                                We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,



                                Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                                Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                                Overtrained Scout Leader


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Corinna Jones
                                You share my husband s pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing merit badges,
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
                                  structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
                                  merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
                                  cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
                                  boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
                                  because many are oblivious.

                                  Corinna


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
                                  To: Scout Trainer
                                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                                  Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                  at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                  especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                  meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                  until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                                • lynntw83
                                  I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 3, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think, if it ever falls within my scope, that I would insist that a boy who needs meds during the school year needs his meds on Scout outings. Thus, he takes his meds, or a parent comes along. It's grossly unfair to the leaders and other boys to stick them with dealing with a kid who's impossible to manage because he's taking a medication break. That kid doesn't have any business detracting from someone else's experience at camp.

                                    But, I'm working with a Venturing Crew now, and we don't have any of that just now.

                                    Lynn Thomas


                                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Corinna Jones" <corinnajones@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > You share my husband's pain. Summer camp, the way it runs now, is very
                                    > structured. There was a reason the scout was put on the meds. Completing
                                    > merit badges, doing their part at the campsite (our camp has patrol
                                    > cooking), and behaving appropriately seem to go by the wayside with these
                                    > boys. It's just plain not acceptable, but needs to be told to the parents,
                                    > because many are oblivious.
                                    >
                                    > Corinna
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                    > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:33 PM
                                    > To: Scout Trainer
                                    > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                    >
                                    > Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                    > at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                    > especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                    > meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                    > until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.
                                    >
                                  • eaglemom53
                                    To me, taking a med break for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an insulin break . As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                                      Lucinda in VA
                                    • Thomas Roberts
                                      Lucinda,  Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Lucinda,
                                         Part of the problem with all of the ADD meds is that they suppress appetite.  For some kids this can cause of a problem of low body weight and delayed development.  Most kids may make this up later in their teens.  I had 3 of 4 sons with ADD.  The doctor said the same to us.  Even more than being "dumb" on the weekends and school vacations is the hassle for us.  Who wants to deal with the lack of impulse control and resulting attitudes when we are dealing with them on the weekends.
                                         
                                        Our kids have all been very active in both Scouts and sports.  If a kid has a Scout event then I want the kid on his meds, mine or someone else’s.  If they have a sport or school event then the kid needs to be focused to keep up with the action.
                                         
                                        A bigger problem for Scouters is that the ADD meds can leave the youth with insomnia.  Then they need to take melatonin or some other remedy before bedtime or you may find the boy wandering the campsite at 1 or 2 AM.  (Melatonin is a non-narcotic remedy that replaces naturally occurring melatonin that may be missing in some ADD children.)
                                         
                                        Tom R
                                        Scouter in NY State

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: eaglemom53 <eaglemom53@...>
                                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 8:24 AM
                                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                                         
                                        To me, taking a "med break" for ADHD is as ridiculous as a person who is diabetic taking an "insulin break". As my son with ADD put it when his doctor told him he didn't have to take his Adderall on the weekends - "Now why would I want to act dumb on the weekends?!?"

                                        Lucinda in VA




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Tim Shea
                                        Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who didn t think to bring the meds.. From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                                          didn't think to bring the meds..



                                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                          Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                                          To: Scout Trainer
                                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                          Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                          at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                          especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                          meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                          until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                                          Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                                          Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                                          <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                                          Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                                          I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                                          don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                                          scouting.......

                                          Connie

                                          --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                                          <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                                          Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                                          for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                                          refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                                          the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                                          We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                                          Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                                          Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                                          Overtrained Scout Leader

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Corinna Jones
                                          Overnight them... ... From: Tim Shea Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Overnight them...

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Tim Shea
                                            Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:28 AM
                                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                                            Ha ha ha-Summer camp? Try Philmont! 13 days with a kid and his dad who
                                            didn't think to bring the meds..



                                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            Of Dan Hammond, Sr.
                                            Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:33 PM
                                            To: Scout Trainer
                                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                            Aahhh. The old "let's take the required break from ADHD meds while Johnny is
                                            at Summer Camp" trick. Had it happen a couple of times. Never fun,
                                            especially when they don't let the leaders know their boy is ADHD and on
                                            meds in the first place. Johnny goes berserk and no one can figure out why
                                            until they have him packed up and ready to go home early.

                                            Re: Urban legends, Handling meds
                                            Posted by: "Connie Knie" cknie23100@...
                                            <mailto:cknie23100%40sbcglobal.net> connie_knie
                                            Date: Wed May 2, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))

                                            I guess what I really don't understand is the mentality of parents who just
                                            don't stop and think and do what is best for their children. And not just in
                                            scouting.......

                                            Connie

                                            --- On Tue, 5/1/12, A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...
                                            <mailto:artdukovic%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                                            Thanks for getting back to me and yes, meds are always gonna be a problem
                                            for "volunteers"; as for your latter issue, if a youth needs his meds, but
                                            refuses, then it's time a parent gets involved and maybe attend events with
                                            the boy, something you CAN easily require.

                                            We've also run into parents that stop meds for some youth with ADHD issues,

                                            Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD), US Army (Ret)
                                            Leavenworth, KS, Fort Riley, KS
                                            Overtrained Scout Leader

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                            scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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                                          • Jamie Niss Dunn
                                            Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent
                                            Message 21 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              <<Overnight them...>>

                                              Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp location.



                                              Jamie Niss Dunn
                                              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                              Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                              Ham Lake, MN
                                              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                              Three Rivers District



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Corinna Jones
                                              It s definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek. ... From: Jamie
                                              Message 22 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                                                days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                                                Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds



                                                <<Overnight them...>>

                                                Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                                                would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                                                delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                                                location.



                                                Jamie Niss Dunn
                                                Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                                Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                                Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                                Ham Lake, MN
                                                Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                                Three Rivers District



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                ------------------------------------

                                                For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                                scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                                                Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              • Tim Shea
                                                Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a product of the 60s and his elevator didn t quite make it to the top floor, you know, a
                                                Message 23 of 29 , May 4, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Of course overnite was my first thought. Long story but this dad was a
                                                  product of the 60s and his elevator didn't quite make it to the top floor,
                                                  you know, a few cards short of a full deck, not the sharpest knife in the
                                                  drawer..



                                                  I found out on day 3 or 4 on the trail when junior had a meltdown.



                                                  I'll save you the gory details but the dad & lad were instructed to bring up
                                                  the rear and to just maintain visibility of the "last" Scout in line in
                                                  front of them. The other Scouts did not want anything to do with the two and
                                                  neither did the adults on the trip. This guy has a long history of being,
                                                  shall we say a non-conformist, non-team player.



                                                  Made for a interesting fun week!



                                                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                  Of Corinna Jones
                                                  Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 10:50 AM
                                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds





                                                  It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of

                                                  days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Jamie Niss Dunn
                                                  Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:42 AM
                                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds

                                                  <<Overnight them...>>

                                                  Yeah - that was my first thought. This would have been a situation where I
                                                  would have had the medical staff at Philmont get the meds sent in and
                                                  delivered to the unit, perhaps at one of their visits to a staffed camp
                                                  location.

                                                  Jamie Niss Dunn
                                                  Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                                  Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                                  Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                                  Ham Lake, MN
                                                  Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                                  Three Rivers District

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Connie Knie
                                                  Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                                                    Depending on when you arrive at the ranch, it is a really quick turn around between arriving and stepping off. One day and two nights. But they are so incredible about getting stuff to scouts on the trail. One of my guys had his boots explode and we got some delivered on hroseback!!

                                                    Connie

                                                    --- On Fri, 5/4/12, Corinna Jones <corinnajones@...> wrote:

                                                    It's definitely worth the $$, and I assume they would be in camp a couple of
                                                    days to get used to the elevation before being out on the trek.



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • eaglemom53
                                                    My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , May 4, 2012
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                                                      My son never had to worry about his appetite being suppressed. Perhaps that had something to do with him not starting on medication until he was 14, and already in the "crazed hunger-man" thing! And I can think of plenty of places in a camp where I wouldn't want a boy with poor impulse control....rock climbing, shooting sports, the waterfront, to just name a few. Even on his meds, Sam managed to cut his finger badly enough to need stitches. But, bless the camp staff's hearts, they stuck with him, and he earned all the merit badges he was working on, including Rifle Shooting (not too hard), and Swimming (they ductaped a plastic bag around his hand).

                                                      As far as insomnia goes, there are some medications like Strattera that aren't stimulants, which helps at night.

                                                      Lucinda
                                                    • Scouter Chuck
                                                      Chiming in on this thread, again. The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something that was popular in the 80 s, I believe. Unfortunately, while most
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , May 6, 2012
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                                                        Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                                        The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                        that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                        while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                        it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                        where it _never_ goes away.

                                                        We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                        the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                        staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                        I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                        with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                                        There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                        of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                        imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                        meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                        the adults, or the unit.

                                                        A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                        divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                        the other can't or won't see.

                                                        Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                        summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                        such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                        somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                        some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                        meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                        how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                                        One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                        it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                        delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                        years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                        _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                                        Just a $0.02 rant.

                                                        YiS,

                                                        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                        District Committee Member at Large
                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                        "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                        -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                      • Thomas Roberts
                                                        I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , May 8, 2012
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                                                          I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                                           
                                                          I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                                           
                                                          Tom R


                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds


                                                           
                                                          Chiming in on this thread, again.

                                                          The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                          that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                          while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                          it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                          where it _never_ goes away.

                                                          We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                          the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                          staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                          I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                          with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".

                                                          There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                          of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                          imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                          meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                          the adults, or the unit.

                                                          A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                          divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                          the other can't or won't see.

                                                          Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                          summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                          such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                          somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                          some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                          meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                          how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.

                                                          One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                          it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                          delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                          years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                          _new_ treatment plan is determined.

                                                          Just a $0.02 rant.

                                                          YiS,

                                                          Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                          I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                          Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                          District Committee Member at Large
                                                          ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                          "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                          -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                          ----------------------------------------------------------



                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Scouter Chuck
                                                          Thomas Roberts wrote: [Edited for slight brevity] ... ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_ individualized. What works for one brother may
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , May 8, 2012
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                                                            Thomas Roberts wrote:

                                                            [Edited for slight brevity]
                                                            > ... When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated,
                                                            > ... We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected. Her first
                                                            > comments were about limiting meds and trying different
                                                            > approaches. Several of which we had tried and failed, with
                                                            > the oldest son.

                                                            ADD, or more properly ADHD-Inattentive Type, is _highly_
                                                            individualized. What works for one brother may not work for
                                                            the other. I'm not saying that these would have worked, but
                                                            some of them could have. It's the same for _all_ forms of
                                                            ADHD.

                                                            Your experience is like the parents who finally agree to
                                                            medicate their child, only to have him/her turn into a
                                                            "zombie". So, after that experience, they never allow or
                                                            try meds again. In reality, what their child got was most
                                                            likely the wrong med, and/or at the wrong dose.

                                                            > That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".
                                                            > By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though
                                                            > she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed
                                                            > the medication."

                                                            Any doctor who treats ADHD professionally, and doesn't
                                                            believe in medication for children, is not one that I would
                                                            recommend or send a child to. Most parents of ADHD kids that
                                                            I know would literally give up their right arm if they could
                                                            get a _reliable_ treatment for their child's ADHD, that
                                                            didn't require medications.

                                                            Even Strattera is dangerous, in the same way that cholesterol
                                                            meds are dangerous, because of the potential that they can
                                                            build up in the liver and damage it.

                                                            > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds
                                                            > either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid
                                                            > who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent
                                                            > refuse to believe there is a problem.

                                                            Ain't that the truth.

                                                            YiS,

                                                            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                            District Committee Member at Large
                                                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                            -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                          • Herb
                                                            My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , May 11, 2012
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                                                              My oldest son was ADHD. The school tried to pigeon hole his brothers in to that diagnosis. It was obvious to me niether was like their older brother. Anyway my point is sometimes it is the parents and teachers that need medication to show more patience and understanding rather than use the broad brush to cover up their inability to cope.

                                                              Herb d

                                                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Roberts <minisinkbuffalo@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > I had (have 1 still on) 3 sons on ADD meds.  When it was time to have the 2nd diagnosed and treated, our previous Pediatric Neurologist was no longer taking our insurance.  We went to a new Dr wh is highly respected.  Her first comments were about limiting meds and trying different approaches.  Several of which we had tried and failed, with the oldest son.  That was one of those days when my son was "off the wall".   By the end of that visit the Dr said that "even though she doesn't believe in medicating children, my son needed the medication."
                                                              >  
                                                              > I have found that many of the ones who are against ADD meds either do not have a child with this illness, or have a kid who we all agree needs the medication badly, but the parent refuse to believe there is a problem.
                                                              >  
                                                              > Tom R
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > ________________________________
                                                              > From: Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>
                                                              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:09 AM
                                                              > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re:Urban legends, Handling meds
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >  
                                                              > Chiming in on this thread, again.
                                                              >
                                                              > The medication vacation as a treatment plan was something
                                                              > that was popular in the 80's, I believe. Unfortunately,
                                                              > while most doctors and psychologists no longer believe in
                                                              > it, once it's been published, it will get on the Internet,
                                                              > where it _never_ goes away.
                                                              >
                                                              > We now know that the medication vacation is not good for
                                                              > the kid or his associates, but some parents and medical
                                                              > staff still haven't heard that. A number of parent's
                                                              > I've seen prefer no treatment to "poisoning their kid
                                                              > with chemicals" for just being an "active boy".
                                                              >
                                                              > There is also a growing school of thought that, in spite
                                                              > of all the evidense to the contrary, ADD or ADHD are
                                                              > imaginary problems made up by "big pharma" to sell more
                                                              > meds to people. That attitude doesn't help the child,
                                                              > the adults, or the unit.
                                                              >
                                                              > A lot of this may come into play in situations of
                                                              > divorce, when one parent treats the kid for a problem
                                                              > the other can't or won't see.
                                                              >
                                                              > Now, for the kid refusing to take the meds on campout or
                                                              > summer camp, I have noticed that more often than not,
                                                              > such a kid is in the range when taking these meds is
                                                              > somthing less than "cool". This may also be related to
                                                              > some aspects of bullying, where the fact the kid is taking
                                                              > meds makes him a target of some of the others, no matter
                                                              > how much anti-bullying they get at school or elsewhere.
                                                              >
                                                              > One other thought. At a certain point in puberty, and
                                                              > it's quite variable, the hormones kick in and upset the
                                                              > delicate balance that has been in effect for several
                                                              > years. Things can get really interesting until the
                                                              > _new_ treatment plan is determined.
                                                              >
                                                              > Just a $0.02 rant.
                                                              >
                                                              > YiS,
                                                              >
                                                              > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. -- mailto:antelope95@...
                                                              > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                                              > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                                              > District Committee Member at Large
                                                              > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                              > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                                              > -- Stephen R. Covey
                                                              > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              >
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