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RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout

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  • A. Dukovic
    All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees can provide alternate requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
      All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees can provide "alternate" requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout in question also needs to be "tagged" in Scoutnet as "special needs" as well, to insure there are no problems as he makes his way toward Eagle.
       
      This is NOT a big deal, and your Council Registrar is the ONLY one that has access to that information, which is "confidential"; the "tag" does NOT appear on any roster or list, but simply allows the boy "additional" time to earn his Eagle if he needs it.


      - Art
      --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

      From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 11:42 AM



       



      Unless the scout is physically unable to exercise this doesn't seem like the right avenue. The issue seems that he just isn't comfortable doing what the other scouts are doing. And that is not an issue at all because except for the required tests he has to do the 12 week program is all about him........... so he just needs to write one that challenges him and then keep tracking it.

      Connie

      --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Tim Shea <shea_tim@...> wrote:

      Contact your District or Council Advancement Chair and inquire about the
      alternates for Scout with Disabilities. It is a process requiring some
      planning especially for Eagle. Do not wait.

      Tim

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Wildschuetz
      I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.   First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement Committee is
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
        I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  

        First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
        Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
        assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 


        Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
        badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
        that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
        limitation.  At one time, the Scout was required to complete all of the
        requirements of the Eagle required badge before attempting to gain an
        alternative, but that was eliminated some years ago. 


        In addition, you are required to provide a medical statement from a
        doctor explaining the extent of the limitation and a completed application for
        an alternative Eagle Merit Badge.  And if the alternative that is chosen
        involves physical activity, it must be approved by the boy's doctor.

        David Wildschuetz
        Scoutmaster, Troop 310
        http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




        ________________________________
        From: A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...>
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, March 27, 2012 4:27:11 PM
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout

         
        All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees
        can provide "alternate" requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout in
        question also needs to be "tagged" in Scoutnet as "special needs" as well, to
        insure there are no problems as he makes his way toward Eagle.
         
        This is NOT a big deal, and your Council Registrar is the ONLY one that has
        access to that information, which is "confidential"; the "tag" does NOT appear
        on any roster or list, but simply allows the boy "additional" time to earn his
        Eagle if he needs it.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Connie Knie
        David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
          David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
           
          BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........

          Connie

          --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
          I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  

          First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
          Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
          assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 


          Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
          badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
          that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
          limitation. 

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Herb
          the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can t do the requirement. hd
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
            the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
            hd

            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
            >
            > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
            >  
            > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
            >
            > Connie
            >
            > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
            > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
            >
            > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
            > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
            > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
            >
            >
            > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
            > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
            > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
            > limitation. 
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Herb
            There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first.
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
              There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first.
              http://www.wwswd.org/

              herb d

              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herb" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
              >
              > the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
              > hd
              >
              > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@> wrote:
              > >
              > > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
              > >  
              > > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
              > >
              > > Connie
              > >
              > > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@> wrote:
              > > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
              > >
              > > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
              > > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
              > > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
              > >
              > >
              > > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
              > > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
              > > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
              > > limitation. 
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • A. Dukovic
              Yep, spoke too soon, sorry; in my Council, the requests are submitted thru the District to the Council and everyone participates, but the decision IS MADE by
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
                Yep, spoke too soon, sorry; in my Council, the requests are submitted thru the District to the Council and everyone participates, but the decision IS MADE by the Council Advancement Committee. And yes, MB requirements cannot be changed but alternatives can be agreed to, again by the Council Advancement Committee.
                 
                All this, thank heavens, is clearly spelled out in the latest BSA 2011 Advancement Guide            # 33088 folks.  Like the new Eagle Workbook, National has clearly put some thought into giving simple guidance for a change to volunteers!!   


                - Art
                --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Herb <hadulzo@...> wrote:

                From: Herb <hadulzo@...>
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 5:37 PM



                 



                the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
                hd

                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
                >
                > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
                >  
                > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
                >
                > Connie
                >
                > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
                > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
                >
                > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
                > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
                > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
                >
                >
                > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
                > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
                > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
                > limitation. 
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul
                ... district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first. ... Unfortunately that web site is seriously out of date (they are
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herb" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor
                  district committee and council committee. So apparently the district
                  looks first.
                  > http://www.wwswd.org/

                  Unfortunately that web site is seriously out of date (they are showing
                  the Advancement Guidelines from 2010 that was recalled).

                  You need to take a look at the Guide to Advancement 2011, especially
                  paragraph 10.2.2.0 (Advancement for Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts With
                  Disabilities) as well as paragraph 10.2.2.1 (Using Alternative
                  Requirements).

                  If you do not have a copy of this item, you can download a free copy
                  from here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf
                  <http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf>

                  Please do not refer volunteers to unofficial web sites as that just
                  causes problems for those trying to get answer as they end up filling
                  out the wrong forms or following outdated policies which results in
                  frustration on their part.

                  Thanks,

                  Paul Y
                  District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                  Thunderbird District
                  Inland Northwest Council
                  Spokane WA
                  "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Maria
                  Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB? It maybe that what he has a problem with is doing this where others can see. It maybe way outside his comfort
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                    Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB? It maybe that what
                    he has a problem with is doing this where others can see. It maybe
                    way outside his comfort zone and so he's shutting down mentally so as
                    not to do it.He may have been harassed over his physical condition in
                    the past and doesn't want to put himself in that position.

                    He may need to be doing the testing, etc. in private. Of course with
                    a parent as a buddy. As a MB counselor, I know it's a lot easier to
                    do group MB's and push for them myself.
                    ]
                    With Aspergers you often have to think outside the box to deal with
                    boys that suffer from it. Not going so far as to change the
                    requirements or do a different MB, but shift focus a bit to see the
                    basic requirements... not what everyone in the troop does.

                    Maria Hurley
                    Malvern, PA USA
                  • Paul
                    ... There is and has never been such a thing as a Group MB ! Here s what the latest Guide to Advancement 2011 says about group MBs : 7.0.3.2 Group
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <m34@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB?

                      There is and has never been such a thing as a "Group MB"!

                      Here's what the latest Guide to Advancement 2011 says about "group MBs":
                      7.0.3.2 Group Instruction

                      It is acceptable—and sometimes desirable—for merit badges to be
                      taught in group settings. This often occurs at camp and merit badge
                      midways or similar events. Interactive group discussions can support
                      learning. The method can also be attractive to "guest experts"
                      assisting registered and approved counselors. Slide shows, skits,
                      demonstrations, panels, and various other techniques can also be
                      employed, but as any teacher can attest, not everyone will learn all the
                      material.

                      There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                      fulfi llment of all requirements. We must know that every
                      Scout—actually and personally—completed them. If, for example, a
                      requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or
                      "discuss," then every Scout must do that. It is unacceptable to
                      award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching
                      demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions. Because of the
                      importance of individual attention in the merit badge plan, group
                      instruction should be limited to those scenarios where the benefits
                      are compelling.
                      And in large green text after the above:
                      There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                      fulfi llment of all requirements. We must know that every
                      Scout—actually and personally—completed them.
                      So while group instruction might be appropriate, each Scout must
                      personally pass all the requirements on an individual basis.

                      This is no different than what the previous Advancement Committee Guide
                      Policies and Procedures pamphlets have said.

                      Paul Y
                      District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                      Thunderbird District
                      Inland Northwest Council
                      Spokane WA
                      "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Wildschuetz
                      That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group.  In
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                        That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up with
                        official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group.  In
                        this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no one-on-one contact
                        guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.  As long as the Scout
                        fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with doing the MB in a group setting.

                         David Wildschuetz
                        Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                        http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                        ________________________________
                        From: Paul <paulp575@...>
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 11:01:19 AM
                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout



                        >> Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB?

                        There is and has never been such a thing as a "Group MB"!

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Paul
                        ... with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group. That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up
                          with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as
                          a group.

                          That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                          badge in a group, i.e., learning how to tie the various bandages and
                          doing litter carrys for First Aid merit badge, a Scout is still required
                          to pass the requirements individually. Remember, advancement is an
                          individual effort - not a group effort.

                          > In this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no
                          one-on-one contact guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.

                          That's the worst excuse I've ever heard of to justify merit badge
                          classes!

                          > As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with
                          doing the MB in a group setting.

                          How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                          setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                          understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                          National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                          front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                          disservice to the youth.

                          It is very easy to meet the current Youth Protection guidelines and
                          still have a Scout pass the requirement individually in front of a
                          counselor. Since some Scouts do not have valid driver's licenses, why
                          not have the person who may be taking the Scout to the counselor sit in
                          on the session? See, now you have the Scout individually passing the
                          requirements, yet the Youth Protection guideline is fully met! Or have
                          the session in a public place where others can see the Scout and
                          counselor. This is allowed!

                          Paul Y
                          District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                          Thunderbird District
                          Inland Northwest Council
                          "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • David Wildschuetz
                          Well, I can see I should have been more verbose in my explanation. Apparently, to some people As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements means
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                            Well, I can see I should have been more verbose in my explanation. Apparently,
                            to some people "As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements" means something
                            different when a merit badge is done as a group as opposed to one-on-one.

                            I never said that the counselor passes the Scout for being part of the class.
                            Even at Scout Camp, that is supposed to be understood. If the requirement says
                            the scout is to do this or that, then the scout does this or that. The
                            counselor can take each Scout to validate that the requirements are met during
                            a group setting just like if they were working with an individual Scout.

                            David Wildschuetz
                            Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                            http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                            ________________________________
                            From: Paul <paulp575@...>
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 11:59:31 AM
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout


                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up
                            with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as
                            a group.

                            That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                            badge in a group, i.e., learning how to tie the various bandages and
                            doing litter carrys for First Aid merit badge, a Scout is still required
                            to pass the requirements individually. Remember, advancement is an
                            individual effort - not a group effort.

                            > In this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no
                            one-on-one contact guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.

                            That's the worst excuse I've ever heard of to justify merit badge
                            classes!

                            > As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with
                            doing the MB in a group setting.

                            How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                            setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                            understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                            National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                            front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                            disservice to the youth.

                            It is very easy to meet the current Youth Protection guidelines and
                            still have a Scout pass the requirement individually in front of a
                            counselor. Since some Scouts do not have valid driver's licenses, why
                            not have the person who may be taking the Scout to the counselor sit in
                            on the session? See, now you have the Scout individually passing the
                            requirements, yet the Youth Protection guideline is fully met! Or have
                            the session in a public place where others can see the Scout and
                            counselor. This is allowed!

                            Paul Y
                            District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                            Thunderbird District
                            Inland Northwest Council
                            "Once a Fox, always a Fox"

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jamie Niss Dunn
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                              <<How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                              setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                              understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                              National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                              front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                              disservice to the youth.>>




                              In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing with different personalities, etc.

                              By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.

                              Jamie Niss Dunn
                              Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                              Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                              Troop Committee, Troop 509
                              Ham Lake, MN
                              Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                              Three Rivers District




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Paul
                              ... association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult
                                association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge
                                experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the
                                counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing
                                with different personalities, etc.
                                >
                                > By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are
                                initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands
                                through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or
                                self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.

                                Thank you for saying what I should have said.

                                Please don't misunderstand me, in some situations, classes on merit
                                badge subjects are great; they do provide interaction amongst the
                                attendees. And it might open up a subject/topic a Scout previously
                                didn't have an interest in.

                                I am the registrar for our district's merit badge college and we are
                                very adamant about how merit badges are to be completed. We provide very
                                specific instructions to our counselors as to what they CAN do and what
                                they MUST do, i.e., individually pass EACH Scout on the requirements;
                                that they can not do this just because a Scout sits in a class.

                                When we changed to this way of doing things two years ago (before I was
                                involved), I thought for sure we'd loose some counselors and Scouts, but
                                we did not. In fact, we did receive several comments about finally doing
                                it the way the program is supposed to be done. And we did pick up some
                                counselors who preferred the right way!

                                As for the Scouts, it's been tough on them as they thought all they need
                                to do is attend the class and they will get the badge. Although I think
                                that mindset is changing as we started emphasizing the fact there will
                                be work required BETWEEN and AFTER the dates of the college (we hold it
                                on two different Saturdays about a month apart).

                                Paul Y
                                District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                                Thunderbird District
                                Inland Northwest Council
                                Spokane WA
                                "Once a Fox, always a Fox"
                              • Rick Pushies
                                Jamie has some excellent points. The process of finding out who the merit badge counselors are and then making contact with a counselor, who is often unknown
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                                  Jamie has some excellent points. The process of finding out who the merit badge counselors are and then making contact with a counselor, who is often unknown to the Scout, is a profound experience that helps our Scouts develop character. Then ensuring youth protection policies are enforced adds an additional yet worthy challenge for all involved.

                                  Although merit badge clinics can make the process of earning a merit badge expedient, merit badge clinic are not always the best learning experience for our Scouts. I am saddened by the trend in Scouting where there is a  willingness of so many to deviate from the tried and true methods that have sustained the Scouting Movement for over a century.



                                  >________________________________
                                  > From: Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...>
                                  >To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:54 AM
                                  >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
                                  >
                                  >

                                  >
                                  >
                                  ><<How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                                  >setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                                  >understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.
                                  >
                                  >National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                                  >front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                                  >disservice to the youth.>>
                                  >
                                  >In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing with different personalities, etc.
                                  >
                                  >By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.
                                  >
                                  >Jamie Niss Dunn
                                  >Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                  >Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                  >Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                  >Ham Lake, MN
                                  >Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                  >Three Rivers District
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Maria
                                  I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop meetings. Maria Hurley
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                                    I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A
                                    MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop
                                    meetings.



                                    Maria Hurley
                                    Malvern, PA USA
                                  • Maria
                                    We are getting away from the original question. The reason I asked if it was a group MB was exactly because of how a MB is suppose to be taught in a group
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                                      We are getting away from the original question. The reason I asked if
                                      it was a group MB was exactly because of how a MB is suppose to be
                                      taught in a group setting.

                                      As you said:
                                      > There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                                      > fulfilment of all requirements. We must know that every
                                      > Scout-actually and personally-completed them. If, for example, a
                                      > requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or
                                      > "discuss," then every Scout must do that.

                                      A boy with Aspergers might easily have problems with a Physical
                                      Fitness MB done in a group setting, if it was done correctly... and
                                      not just passed for showing up. He might still have some problems in
                                      a more private setting, but they might be manageable.






                                      Maria Hurley
                                      Malvern, PA USA
                                    • Connie Knie
                                      I feel our troop successfully just did Personal Fitness as a group (sort of). We had speakers come in and cover alot of the requirements like nutrition,
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
                                        I feel our troop successfully just did Personal Fitness as a group (sort of). We had speakers come in and cover alot of the requirements like nutrition, components of physical fitness, what it means to be healthy, etc. These were just 20 minutes or so. Then we did the original tests as a group (you know the ones they have to repeat every two weeks). Then that was it for groups. They had to then go to individual counselors for the rest. The short talks were only helpful to the scouts who paid attention and took notes. And I believe that doing that initial testing together gave alot of them what they needed to get off to a good start. We told them in the beginning that no one would be receiving the merit badge until they met individually with a counselor..........
                                         
                                        The other one I did successfully at summer camp was Horsemanship. All of the riding lessons and grooming lessons and discussions were done as a group. But they had to do the riding tests alone, and all of the rest of the discussions were done one on one with my staff.........no gimmes...........
                                         
                                        So even if the scout in question was working on Personal Fitness initially in a group there is no reason he needs to do the same exercises everyone else is doing and technically everyone else shouldn't be doing the exact same thing anyway..........

                                        Connie

                                        --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Maria <m34@...> wrote:

                                        I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A
                                        MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop
                                        meetings.




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