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RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout

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  • Connie Knie
    Unless the scout is physically unable to exercise this doesn t seem like the right avenue. The issue seems that he just isn t comfortable doing what the other
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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      Unless the scout is physically unable to exercise this doesn't seem like the right avenue. The issue seems that he just isn't comfortable doing what the other scouts are doing. And that is not an issue at all because except for the required tests he has to do the 12 week program is all about him........... so he just needs to write one that challenges him and then keep tracking it.

      Connie

      --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Tim Shea <shea_tim@...> wrote:

      Contact your District or Council Advancement Chair and inquire about the
      alternates for Scout with Disabilities. It is a process requiring some
      planning especially for Eagle. Do not wait.

      Tim



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • A. Dukovic
      All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees can provide alternate requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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        All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees can provide "alternate" requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout in question also needs to be "tagged" in Scoutnet as "special needs" as well, to insure there are no problems as he makes his way toward Eagle.
         
        This is NOT a big deal, and your Council Registrar is the ONLY one that has access to that information, which is "confidential"; the "tag" does NOT appear on any roster or list, but simply allows the boy "additional" time to earn his Eagle if he needs it.


        - Art
        --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:

        From: Connie Knie <cknie23100@...>
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 11:42 AM



         



        Unless the scout is physically unable to exercise this doesn't seem like the right avenue. The issue seems that he just isn't comfortable doing what the other scouts are doing. And that is not an issue at all because except for the required tests he has to do the 12 week program is all about him........... so he just needs to write one that challenges him and then keep tracking it.

        Connie

        --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Tim Shea <shea_tim@...> wrote:

        Contact your District or Council Advancement Chair and inquire about the
        alternates for Scout with Disabilities. It is a process requiring some
        planning especially for Eagle. Do not wait.

        Tim

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Wildschuetz
        I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.   First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement Committee is
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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          I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  

          First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
          Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
          assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 


          Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
          badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
          that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
          limitation.  At one time, the Scout was required to complete all of the
          requirements of the Eagle required badge before attempting to gain an
          alternative, but that was eliminated some years ago. 


          In addition, you are required to provide a medical statement from a
          doctor explaining the extent of the limitation and a completed application for
          an alternative Eagle Merit Badge.  And if the alternative that is chosen
          involves physical activity, it must be approved by the boy's doctor.

          David Wildschuetz
          Scoutmaster, Troop 310
          http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




          ________________________________
          From: A. Dukovic <artdukovic@...>
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, March 27, 2012 4:27:11 PM
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout

           
          All, as has already been stated, the District and Council Advancement Committees
          can provide "alternate" requirements, NOT the MB counselor please; the Scout in
          question also needs to be "tagged" in Scoutnet as "special needs" as well, to
          insure there are no problems as he makes his way toward Eagle.
           
          This is NOT a big deal, and your Council Registrar is the ONLY one that has
          access to that information, which is "confidential"; the "tag" does NOT appear
          on any roster or list, but simply allows the boy "additional" time to earn his
          Eagle if he needs it.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Connie Knie
          David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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            David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
             
            BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........

            Connie

            --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
            I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  

            First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
            Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
            assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 


            Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
            badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
            that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
            limitation. 

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Herb
            the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can t do the requirement. hd
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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              the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
              hd

              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
              >
              > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
              >  
              > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
              >
              > Connie
              >
              > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
              > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
              >
              > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
              > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
              > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
              >
              >
              > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
              > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
              > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
              > limitation. 
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Herb
              There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first.
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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                There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first.
                http://www.wwswd.org/

                herb d

                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herb" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
                >
                > the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
                > hd
                >
                > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@> wrote:
                > >
                > > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
                > >  
                > > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
                > >
                > > Connie
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@> wrote:
                > > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
                > >
                > > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
                > > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
                > > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
                > >
                > >
                > > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
                > > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
                > > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
                > > limitation. 
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • A. Dukovic
                Yep, spoke too soon, sorry; in my Council, the requests are submitted thru the District to the Council and everyone participates, but the decision IS MADE by
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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                  Yep, spoke too soon, sorry; in my Council, the requests are submitted thru the District to the Council and everyone participates, but the decision IS MADE by the Council Advancement Committee. And yes, MB requirements cannot be changed but alternatives can be agreed to, again by the Council Advancement Committee.
                   
                  All this, thank heavens, is clearly spelled out in the latest BSA 2011 Advancement Guide            # 33088 folks.  Like the new Eagle Workbook, National has clearly put some thought into giving simple guidance for a change to volunteers!!   


                  - Art
                  --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Herb <hadulzo@...> wrote:

                  From: Herb <hadulzo@...>
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 5:37 PM



                   



                  the advanceement committee will require a statement from the doctor saying it can't do the requirement.
                  hd

                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > David is correct (as usual) only the Council Advanment Committee can make the determination on which MB to use as an alternative but individual requirements don't change.
                  >  
                  > BUT........ in reference to the original question No where did the OP state the scout couldn't do the requirements. He just isn't comfortable doing the ones the other scouts are doing. I don't see where this would qualify as stated by the OP.........
                  >
                  > Connie
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 3/27/12, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
                  > I believe that statement is incorrect, or at least misleading.  
                  >
                  > First off, the District does not factor into it.  The Council Advancement
                  > Committee is responsible for deciding on the "alternatives".  The DAC can
                  > assist, but only in an advisory capacity. 
                  >
                  >
                  > Secondly, requirements can not altered to allow the Scout to achieve the merit
                  > badge.  Instead, an alternative merit badge is chosen to replace the one
                  > that the Scout is unable to complete, due to a permanent phyiscal or mental
                  > limitation. 
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Paul
                  ... district committee and council committee. So apparently the district looks first. ... Unfortunately that web site is seriously out of date (they are
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
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                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Herb" <hadulzo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > There is a form on this web site. Gets signed by the parents, doctor
                    district committee and council committee. So apparently the district
                    looks first.
                    > http://www.wwswd.org/

                    Unfortunately that web site is seriously out of date (they are showing
                    the Advancement Guidelines from 2010 that was recalled).

                    You need to take a look at the Guide to Advancement 2011, especially
                    paragraph 10.2.2.0 (Advancement for Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts With
                    Disabilities) as well as paragraph 10.2.2.1 (Using Alternative
                    Requirements).

                    If you do not have a copy of this item, you can download a free copy
                    from here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf
                    <http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf>

                    Please do not refer volunteers to unofficial web sites as that just
                    causes problems for those trying to get answer as they end up filling
                    out the wrong forms or following outdated policies which results in
                    frustration on their part.

                    Thanks,

                    Paul Y
                    District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                    Thunderbird District
                    Inland Northwest Council
                    Spokane WA
                    "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Maria
                    Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB? It maybe that what he has a problem with is doing this where others can see. It maybe way outside his comfort
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                      Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB? It maybe that what
                      he has a problem with is doing this where others can see. It maybe
                      way outside his comfort zone and so he's shutting down mentally so as
                      not to do it.He may have been harassed over his physical condition in
                      the past and doesn't want to put himself in that position.

                      He may need to be doing the testing, etc. in private. Of course with
                      a parent as a buddy. As a MB counselor, I know it's a lot easier to
                      do group MB's and push for them myself.
                      ]
                      With Aspergers you often have to think outside the box to deal with
                      boys that suffer from it. Not going so far as to change the
                      requirements or do a different MB, but shift focus a bit to see the
                      basic requirements... not what everyone in the troop does.

                      Maria Hurley
                      Malvern, PA USA
                    • Paul
                      ... There is and has never been such a thing as a Group MB ! Here s what the latest Guide to Advancement 2011 says about group MBs : 7.0.3.2 Group
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <m34@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB?

                        There is and has never been such a thing as a "Group MB"!

                        Here's what the latest Guide to Advancement 2011 says about "group MBs":
                        7.0.3.2 Group Instruction

                        It is acceptable—and sometimes desirable—for merit badges to be
                        taught in group settings. This often occurs at camp and merit badge
                        midways or similar events. Interactive group discussions can support
                        learning. The method can also be attractive to "guest experts"
                        assisting registered and approved counselors. Slide shows, skits,
                        demonstrations, panels, and various other techniques can also be
                        employed, but as any teacher can attest, not everyone will learn all the
                        material.

                        There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                        fulfi llment of all requirements. We must know that every
                        Scout—actually and personally—completed them. If, for example, a
                        requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or
                        "discuss," then every Scout must do that. It is unacceptable to
                        award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching
                        demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions. Because of the
                        importance of individual attention in the merit badge plan, group
                        instruction should be limited to those scenarios where the benefits
                        are compelling.
                        And in large green text after the above:
                        There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                        fulfi llment of all requirements. We must know that every
                        Scout—actually and personally—completed them.
                        So while group instruction might be appropriate, each Scout must
                        personally pass all the requirements on an individual basis.

                        This is no different than what the previous Advancement Committee Guide
                        Policies and Procedures pamphlets have said.

                        Paul Y
                        District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                        Thunderbird District
                        Inland Northwest Council
                        Spokane WA
                        "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Wildschuetz
                        That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group.  In
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                          That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up with
                          official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group.  In
                          this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no one-on-one contact
                          guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.  As long as the Scout
                          fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with doing the MB in a group setting.

                           David Wildschuetz
                          Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                          http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                          ________________________________
                          From: Paul <paulp575@...>
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 11:01:19 AM
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout



                          >> Coming into this a bit late. Is this a group MB?

                          There is and has never been such a thing as a "Group MB"!

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Paul
                          ... with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as a group. That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up
                            with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as
                            a group.

                            That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                            badge in a group, i.e., learning how to tie the various bandages and
                            doing litter carrys for First Aid merit badge, a Scout is still required
                            to pass the requirements individually. Remember, advancement is an
                            individual effort - not a group effort.

                            > In this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no
                            one-on-one contact guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.

                            That's the worst excuse I've ever heard of to justify merit badge
                            classes!

                            > As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with
                            doing the MB in a group setting.

                            How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                            setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                            understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                            National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                            front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                            disservice to the youth.

                            It is very easy to meet the current Youth Protection guidelines and
                            still have a Scout pass the requirement individually in front of a
                            counselor. Since some Scouts do not have valid driver's licenses, why
                            not have the person who may be taking the Scout to the counselor sit in
                            on the session? See, now you have the Scout individually passing the
                            requirements, yet the Youth Protection guideline is fully met! Or have
                            the session in a public place where others can see the Scout and
                            counselor. This is allowed!

                            Paul Y
                            District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                            Thunderbird District
                            Inland Northwest Council
                            "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Wildschuetz
                            Well, I can see I should have been more verbose in my explanation. Apparently, to some people As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements means
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                              Well, I can see I should have been more verbose in my explanation. Apparently,
                              to some people "As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements" means something
                              different when a merit badge is done as a group as opposed to one-on-one.

                              I never said that the counselor passes the Scout for being part of the class.
                              Even at Scout Camp, that is supposed to be understood. If the requirement says
                              the scout is to do this or that, then the scout does this or that. The
                              counselor can take each Scout to validate that the requirements are met during
                              a group setting just like if they were working with an individual Scout.

                              David Wildschuetz
                              Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                              http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                              ________________________________
                              From: Paul <paulp575@...>
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 11:59:31 AM
                              Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout


                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > That seems a bit harsh, and a bit contradictory when you follow it up
                              with official documentation that talks about working on a merit badge as
                              a group.

                              That has always been the rule in that while you can work on the merit
                              badge in a group, i.e., learning how to tie the various bandages and
                              doing litter carrys for First Aid merit badge, a Scout is still required
                              to pass the requirements individually. Remember, advancement is an
                              individual effort - not a group effort.

                              > In this time of youth protection, two-deep leadership and the no
                              one-on-one contact guidelines, group MB classes are becoming the norm.

                              That's the worst excuse I've ever heard of to justify merit badge
                              classes!

                              > As long as the Scout fulfills the requirements, what is wrong with
                              doing the MB in a group setting.

                              How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                              setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                              understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                              National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                              front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                              disservice to the youth.

                              It is very easy to meet the current Youth Protection guidelines and
                              still have a Scout pass the requirement individually in front of a
                              counselor. Since some Scouts do not have valid driver's licenses, why
                              not have the person who may be taking the Scout to the counselor sit in
                              on the session? See, now you have the Scout individually passing the
                              requirements, yet the Youth Protection guideline is fully met! Or have
                              the session in a public place where others can see the Scout and
                              counselor. This is allowed!

                              Paul Y
                              District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                              Thunderbird District
                              Inland Northwest Council
                              "Once a Fox, always a Fox"

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jamie Niss Dunn
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                <<How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                                setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                                understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.

                                National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                                front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                                disservice to the youth.>>




                                In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing with different personalities, etc.

                                By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.

                                Jamie Niss Dunn
                                Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                Ham Lake, MN
                                Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                Three Rivers District




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Paul
                                ... association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult
                                  association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge
                                  experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the
                                  counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing
                                  with different personalities, etc.
                                  >
                                  > By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are
                                  initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands
                                  through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or
                                  self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.

                                  Thank you for saying what I should have said.

                                  Please don't misunderstand me, in some situations, classes on merit
                                  badge subjects are great; they do provide interaction amongst the
                                  attendees. And it might open up a subject/topic a Scout previously
                                  didn't have an interest in.

                                  I am the registrar for our district's merit badge college and we are
                                  very adamant about how merit badges are to be completed. We provide very
                                  specific instructions to our counselors as to what they CAN do and what
                                  they MUST do, i.e., individually pass EACH Scout on the requirements;
                                  that they can not do this just because a Scout sits in a class.

                                  When we changed to this way of doing things two years ago (before I was
                                  involved), I thought for sure we'd loose some counselors and Scouts, but
                                  we did not. In fact, we did receive several comments about finally doing
                                  it the way the program is supposed to be done. And we did pick up some
                                  counselors who preferred the right way!

                                  As for the Scouts, it's been tough on them as they thought all they need
                                  to do is attend the class and they will get the badge. Although I think
                                  that mindset is changing as we started emphasizing the fact there will
                                  be work required BETWEEN and AFTER the dates of the college (we hold it
                                  on two different Saturdays about a month apart).

                                  Paul Y
                                  District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                                  Thunderbird District
                                  Inland Northwest Council
                                  Spokane WA
                                  "Once a Fox, always a Fox"
                                • Rick Pushies
                                  Jamie has some excellent points. The process of finding out who the merit badge counselors are and then making contact with a counselor, who is often unknown
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                    Jamie has some excellent points. The process of finding out who the merit badge counselors are and then making contact with a counselor, who is often unknown to the Scout, is a profound experience that helps our Scouts develop character. Then ensuring youth protection policies are enforced adds an additional yet worthy challenge for all involved.

                                    Although merit badge clinics can make the process of earning a merit badge expedient, merit badge clinic are not always the best learning experience for our Scouts. I am saddened by the trend in Scouting where there is a  willingness of so many to deviate from the tried and true methods that have sustained the Scouting Movement for over a century.



                                    >________________________________
                                    > From: Jamie Niss Dunn <JNDunnMN@...>
                                    >To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:54 AM
                                    >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Physical Fitness MB with Asperbers Scout
                                    >
                                    >

                                    >
                                    >
                                    ><<How do you know a Scout understands the requirements when in a group
                                    >setting? Just because a Scout sat in a class does not mean he has an
                                    >understanding of the requirements, let alone can do them.
                                    >
                                    >National has always required Scouts to pass merit badge requirements in
                                    >front of a counselor. If one is not doing that, then they a providing a
                                    >disservice to the youth.>>
                                    >
                                    >In addition, group merit badge classes deprive the Scout of the adult association which is supposed to be a part of the merit badge experience. The Scout learns and grows from making the call to the counselor, working with different individuals on various badges, dealing with different personalities, etc.
                                    >
                                    >By arranging "classes" as part of troop meetings, even if they are initiated by the Scouts, we short change the Scouts. Holding their hands through the merit badge process is NOT developing independence or self-confidence - it's treating them like little kids.
                                    >
                                    >Jamie Niss Dunn
                                    >Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                    >Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                    >Troop Committee, Troop 509
                                    >Ham Lake, MN
                                    >Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                    >Three Rivers District
                                    >
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                                  • Maria
                                    I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop meetings. Maria Hurley
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                      I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A
                                      MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop
                                      meetings.



                                      Maria Hurley
                                      Malvern, PA USA
                                    • Maria
                                      We are getting away from the original question. The reason I asked if it was a group MB was exactly because of how a MB is suppose to be taught in a group
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                        We are getting away from the original question. The reason I asked if
                                        it was a group MB was exactly because of how a MB is suppose to be
                                        taught in a group setting.

                                        As you said:
                                        > There must be attention to each individual's projects and his
                                        > fulfilment of all requirements. We must know that every
                                        > Scout-actually and personally-completed them. If, for example, a
                                        > requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or
                                        > "discuss," then every Scout must do that.

                                        A boy with Aspergers might easily have problems with a Physical
                                        Fitness MB done in a group setting, if it was done correctly... and
                                        not just passed for showing up. He might still have some problems in
                                        a more private setting, but they might be manageable.






                                        Maria Hurley
                                        Malvern, PA USA
                                      • Connie Knie
                                        I feel our troop successfully just did Personal Fitness as a group (sort of). We had speakers come in and cover alot of the requirements like nutrition,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 28, 2012
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                                          I feel our troop successfully just did Personal Fitness as a group (sort of). We had speakers come in and cover alot of the requirements like nutrition, components of physical fitness, what it means to be healthy, etc. These were just 20 minutes or so. Then we did the original tests as a group (you know the ones they have to repeat every two weeks). Then that was it for groups. They had to then go to individual counselors for the rest. The short talks were only helpful to the scouts who paid attention and took notes. And I believe that doing that initial testing together gave alot of them what they needed to get off to a good start. We told them in the beginning that no one would be receiving the merit badge until they met individually with a counselor..........
                                           
                                          The other one I did successfully at summer camp was Horsemanship. All of the riding lessons and grooming lessons and discussions were done as a group. But they had to do the riding tests alone, and all of the rest of the discussions were done one on one with my staff.........no gimmes...........
                                           
                                          So even if the scout in question was working on Personal Fitness initially in a group there is no reason he needs to do the same exercises everyone else is doing and technically everyone else shouldn't be doing the exact same thing anyway..........

                                          Connie

                                          --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Maria <m34@...> wrote:

                                          I understand what you are saying, and that is exactly what I meant. A
                                          MB done in a group setting. Like at camp or partially during troop
                                          meetings.




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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