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Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders

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  • Ryan L
    The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this morning that there is now an official Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders on
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 4 9:37 PM
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      The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this morning that there is now an official "Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders" on scouting.org
      http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-025.pdf

      The syllabus is for Wolf and Bear Den Leaders, and is definitely LDS specific. I skimmed the document tonight and there are section on scouting in the church, quotes from the Primary general president, references to church, church documents, church positions throughout.

      Did anyone know this was coming? It was mentioned in the Winter 2012 Training update (http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx) but has anyone heard any background about this? Was it requested by SLC? Was it created with input from church HQ? or LDS volunteers?

      I don't know if this is a good idea or not... Generally I'm not in favor of segregating LDS units and leaders even more than they already are in the Scouting community.

      Ryan
      Meridian, ID
    • Judy Yeager
      Wow! Does this mean that Wolf and Bear Den Leaders registered with LDS units are not considered trained if they have completed their training online at
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 4 10:16 PM
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        Wow! Does this mean that Wolf and Bear Den Leaders registered with LDS
        units are not considered trained if they have completed their training
        online at MyScouting.org?


        On 3/4/2012 11:37 PM, Ryan L wrote:
        >
        > The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this
        > morning that there is now an official "Leader-Specific Training for
        > LDS Den Leaders" on scouting.org
        > http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-025.pdf
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Crothers
        A. At my area bi-monthly telephone conference for council training chairs I was told the following: 1. Don t worry about this, as there will be a trial period
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 5 4:18 AM
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          A. At my area bi-monthly telephone conference for council training chairs I was told the following:

          1. Don't worry about this, as there will be a trial period using this syllabus.

          2. The trial will be primarily in the Western US.   

          B. It looks like that was wrong.

          Yours In Scouting



          Mike Crothers

          Tecumseh Council Training Chair



          I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11

          and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13

          and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06

          --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Ryan L <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:

          From: Ryan L <rd_lancaster@...>
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 10:37 PM
















           









          The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this morning that there is now an official "Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders" on scouting.org

          http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-025.pdf



          The syllabus is for Wolf and Bear Den Leaders, and is definitely LDS specific. I skimmed the document tonight and there are section on scouting in the church, quotes from the Primary general president, references to church, church documents, church positions throughout.



          Did anyone know this was coming? It was mentioned in the Winter 2012 Training update (http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx) but has anyone heard any background about this? Was it requested by SLC? Was it created with input from church HQ? or LDS volunteers?



          I don't know if this is a good idea or not... Generally I'm not in favor of segregating LDS units and leaders even more than they already are in the Scouting community.



          Ryan

          Meridian, ID



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G.J.
          I know I ve hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them. On a pet peeve
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 5 7:31 AM
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            I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.

            On a pet peeve of mine, I like how they show the wrong TRAINED patch, Cub leaders wear red and tan, not the green and tan.
          • Connie Knie
            I thought LDS leaders had to go through training? I mean they were made to be their church. No? Connie ... I know I ve hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 5 7:33 AM
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              I thought LDS leaders had to go through training? I mean they were made to be their church. No?

              Connie

              --- On Mon, 3/5/12, G.J. <gjjudd@...> wrote:


              I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Scott Smith
              Absolutely! The following are some informative resource links on the LDS church s website concerning instructions to LDS Scouting Leaders for training and for
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 5 8:35 AM
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                Absolutely! The following are some informative resource links on the LDS
                church's website concerning instructions to LDS Scouting Leaders for
                training and for Scouting in general:

                http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/scout-leader-training.pdf?lang=eng

                http://www.lds.org/service/serving-in-the-church/aaronic-priesthood/leader-resources/scouting?lang=eng


                Scott Smith
                ADC Spanish Trails for LDS units in the Tucson Arizona Rincon Stake
                Catalina Council
                >
                >
                > I thought LDS leaders had to go through training? I mean they were
                > made to be their church. No?
                >
                > Connie
                >
              • Jon Baake
                Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA says: Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 5 8:55 AM
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                  Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA
                  says:

                  Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                  a khaki background with red lettering and border while the second has a
                  khaki background with green lettering and border (centennial edition).
                  Quoted from http://scouting.org/scoutsource/awards_central/trainedstrip.aspx

                  If someone has a citation prescribing the red and tan patch for cubs and the
                  green and tan for boy scouts that would be useful.

                  Jon

                  NCAC





                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of G.J.
                  Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:32 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders





                  I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If
                  this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.

                  On a pet peeve of mine, I like how they show the wrong TRAINED patch, Cub
                  leaders wear red and tan, not the green and tan.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ben Ward
                  http://www.scoutstuff.org/trained-red-emblem.html  Trained Red EmblemItem: 18120 Availability:In Stock $1.39 Trained leader emblem in red thread on khaki
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 5 6:23 PM
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                    http://www.scoutstuff.org/trained-red-emblem.html%c2%a0


                    Trained Red EmblemItem: 18120
                    Availability:In Stock
                    $1.39
                    Trained leader emblem in red thread on khaki twill. 1-3/4" x 1". Revised size fits on the left sleeve pocket flap of the Centennial Uniform shirts. The red Trained emblem is worn by a Cub Scout leader who has completed the Basic Leader Training program appropriate to their positions.


                    ________________________________
                    From: Jon Baake <jbaake@...>
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trained Leader Patches


                     
                    Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA
                    says:

                    Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                    a khaki background with red lettering and border while the second has a
                    khaki background with green lettering and border (centennial edition).
                    Quoted from http://scouting.org/scoutsource/awards_central/trainedstrip.aspx

                    If someone has a citation prescribing the red and tan patch for cubs and the
                    green and tan for boy scouts that would be useful.

                    Jon

                    NCAC

                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of G.J.
                    Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:32 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders

                    I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If
                    this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.

                    On a pet peeve of mine, I like how they show the wrong TRAINED patch, Cub
                    leaders wear red and tan, not the green and tan.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • mark.ellis21@comcast.net
                    We checked with the BSA training folks at National. The Scoutstuff description is flat out wrong. The website listed has the correct info. Mark Ellis
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 5 7:15 PM
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                      We checked with the BSA training folks at National. The Scoutstuff description is flat out wrong. The website listed has the correct info.

                      Mark Ellis

                      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

                      -----Original message-----
                      From: Ben Ward <troop555eaglescout@...>
                      To: "scouter_t@yahoogroups.com" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, Mar 6, 2012 02:23:50 GMT+00:00
                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Trained Leader Patches

                      http://www.scoutstuff.org/trained-red-emblem.html%c2%a0


                      Trained Red EmblemItem: 18120
                      Availability:In Stock
                      $1.39
                      Trained leader emblem in red thread on khaki twill. 1-3/4" x 1". Revised size fits on the left sleeve pocket flap of the Centennial Uniform shirts. The red Trained emblem is worn by a Cub Scout leader who has completed the Basic Leader Training program appropriate to their positions.


                      ________________________________
                      From: Jon Baake <jbaake@...>
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trained Leader Patches


                       
                      Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA
                      says:

                      Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                      a khaki background with red lettering and border while the second has a
                      khaki background with green lettering and border (centennial edition).
                      Quoted from http://scouting.org/scoutsource/awards_central/trainedstrip.aspx

                      If someone has a citation prescribing the red and tan patch for cubs and the
                      green and tan for boy scouts that would be useful.

                      Jon

                      NCAC

                      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of G.J.
                      Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:32 AM
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders

                      I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If
                      this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.

                      On a pet peeve of mine, I like how they show the wrong TRAINED patch, Cub
                      leaders wear red and tan, not the green and tan.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Brian Duane
                      Yes, and I remember when the helpful individual at the scout store was not going to sell the red and white numerals to me because I was a troop leader and
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 6 3:57 AM
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                        Yes, and I remember when the "helpful" individual at the scout store was not going to sell the red and white numerals to me because I was a troop leader and the red and white numerals are no longer for the Boy Scout uniform. I reminded him that I was also a Cubmaster and put an end to that silly discussion.

                        Of course I promptly went home and put the red and white numerals on my newest Scoutmaster shirt with the red loops.

                        Not everything you read or are told is correct.

                        But the statement that once a uniform, always a uniform is pretty darn safe. And red or green...does it really matter.

                        So many Scouts...so little time.

                        YIS

                        Brian

                        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ward
                        Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:24 PM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Trained Leader Patches


                        http://www.scoutstuff.org/trained-red-emblem.html

                        Trained Red EmblemItem: 18120
                        Availability:In Stock
                        $1.39
                        Trained leader emblem in red thread on khaki twill. 1-3/4" x 1". Revised size fits on the left sleeve pocket flap of the Centennial Uniform shirts. The red Trained emblem is worn by a Cub Scout leader who has completed the Basic Leader Training program appropriate to their positions.
                      • G.J.
                        I see the switching of the numbers and trained strip snafu is still at work and no one has any idea what the heck is going on. Also I see that miscommunication
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 6 5:47 AM
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                          I see the switching of the numbers and trained strip snafu is still at work and no one has any idea what the heck is going on. Also I see that miscommunication within the BSA departments still exists. :)

                          There are two TRAINED strips: tan and green for Boy Scouts and their leaders because they are wearing the tan and green numbers, and the red and tan strip for Cub Scout leaders because they wear the red and white numbers still irregardless of which version of the shirt, DeLarenta or Centennial, worn. Also the Venturing folks need the tan and red strips too.

                          But looking through the current, stress CURRENT, Uniform Essentials, Checklists, and Inspection sheet, I see that the color trained strip is not mentioned, only the color unit numbers; red and white for venturers, Cubs, and Cub Scout leaders; Green and tan for Boy Scouts and their leaders. But the older info from a few months ago info I have does specify which color is worn by whom.

                          But to give a little background on this snafu. From August 2008- April 2009 there was NO Insignia Guide on the Centennial Uniforms. The handout that unveiled the CUs stated that anyone in the CUs, including Webelos and Cub Scout leaders, wear tan and green insignia. For about a month, April 2009, online stated that Webelos and Cub leaders wear tan and red numbers, but those didn't come out, and instead Webelos and Cub Leaders wear red and white numbers. To make the uniform more uniform, a smaller tan and red trained strip came out for the Cub leaders, and because the Venturing folks didn't want the tan and green strips. Some of the uniform literature AFTER May 2009 does have this information, and when I get home I'll cite the info if I can find it, i.e. I'll give you the dates since BSA changes the info regularly (see above)

                          But as a previous poster said, once uniform, always uniform. So I have no problems with a Webelos or CS leader in tan and greens b/c that is a "vintage August 2008-April 2009" uniform for them.

                          As for BS leaders mixing and matching the ODL uniform items, i.e red loops and numbers, that is perfectly permissable according to the May 2008 document introducing the CUs, as well as the information from AUG 2008 documents when the uniforms came out.

                          Easiest fix for this mess is to go back to the red and whites numbers and red and tan strips for everyone, except Sea Scouts as they don't wear numbers.

                          Now how do i know all this? I got a bunch of angry complaints from parents and leaders on this topic when this fiasco was unfolding. Not happy campers buying and sewing on stuff that they were told is proper, only to find out a few months later that National did not give out the proper info and they are inccorectly uniformed. Heck I got the tan and green numbers and trained strip for my CS leader uniform, and find out 2 weeks after buying and sewing them on that national changed the policy, and that was after a call to a national scout shop to get what I thought was the official answer.

                          But I concede the point that currently no where online, either on SCOUTING.ORG or SCOUTSTUFF.ORG does it specify which color trained strip is worn by whom. Whose idea was it to switch? :)
                        • Whiteley, John F
                          Dear GJ: Sea Scouts don t wear numbers? The why does ScoutStuff.com sell them (either blue on white for wear on the white uniforms or white on blue for wear on
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 6 5:57 AM
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                            Dear GJ:

                            Sea Scouts don't wear numbers? The why does ScoutStuff.com sell them (either blue on white for wear on the white uniforms or white on blue for wear on the blue uniforms)?

                            Granted, the Sea Scout Manual does not require the numerals. But most Ships do wear them.

                            YiS

                            John
                            Vice Commodore for Training
                            Central Region, Area 4

                            Captain John F. Whiteley, Ed.S., AMS, CCT
                            Executive Director
                            Workforce Development
                            Mountwest Community and Technical College
                            4200 Ohio River Road
                            Huntington, WV, 25702
                            Office: 304-697-5616
                            Fax: 304-697-5611
                            Huntington Cell: 304-417-3321
                            Charleston Cell: 304-437-3321
                            whiteley@...<mailto:whiteley@...>
                            ________________________________
                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of G.J. [gjjudd@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 8:47 AM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trained Leader Patches and history of the Numbers/Trained strip Snafu



                            I see the switching of the numbers and trained strip snafu is still at work and no one has any idea what the heck is going on. Also I see that miscommunication within the BSA departments still exists. :)

                            There are two TRAINED strips: tan and green for Boy Scouts and their leaders because they are wearing the tan and green numbers, and the red and tan strip for Cub Scout leaders because they wear the red and white numbers still irregardless of which version of the shirt, DeLarenta or Centennial, worn. Also the Venturing folks need the tan and red strips too.

                            But looking through the current, stress CURRENT, Uniform Essentials, Checklists, and Inspection sheet, I see that the color trained strip is not mentioned, only the color unit numbers; red and white for venturers, Cubs, and Cub Scout leaders; Green and tan for Boy Scouts and their leaders. But the older info from a few months ago info I have does specify which color is worn by whom.

                            But to give a little background on this snafu. From August 2008- April 2009 there was NO Insignia Guide on the Centennial Uniforms. The handout that unveiled the CUs stated that anyone in the CUs, including Webelos and Cub Scout leaders, wear tan and green insignia. For about a month, April 2009, online stated that Webelos and Cub leaders wear tan and red numbers, but those didn't come out, and instead Webelos and Cub Leaders wear red and white numbers. To make the uniform more uniform, a smaller tan and red trained strip came out for the Cub leaders, and because the Venturing folks didn't want the tan and green strips. Some of the uniform literature AFTER May 2009 does have this information, and when I get home I'll cite the info if I can find it, i.e. I'll give you the dates since BSA changes the info regularly (see above)

                            But as a previous poster said, once uniform, always uniform. So I have no problems with a Webelos or CS leader in tan and greens b/c that is a "vintage August 2008-April 2009" uniform for them.

                            As for BS leaders mixing and matching the ODL uniform items, i.e red loops and numbers, that is perfectly permissable according to the May 2008 document introducing the CUs, as well as the information from AUG 2008 documents when the uniforms came out.

                            Easiest fix for this mess is to go back to the red and whites numbers and red and tan strips for everyone, except Sea Scouts as they don't wear numbers.

                            Now how do i know all this? I got a bunch of angry complaints from parents and leaders on this topic when this fiasco was unfolding. Not happy campers buying and sewing on stuff that they were told is proper, only to find out a few months later that National did not give out the proper info and they are inccorectly uniformed. Heck I got the tan and green numbers and trained strip for my CS leader uniform, and find out 2 weeks after buying and sewing them on that national changed the policy, and that was after a call to a national scout shop to get what I thought was the official answer.

                            But I concede the point that currently no where online, either on SCOUTING.ORG or SCOUTSTUFF.ORG does it specify which color trained strip is worn by whom. Whose idea was it to switch? :)





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • G.J.
                            Apparently, when I searched for the trained strip, the link above was not shown, but the older trained strip. So a national source DOES say red and tan for CS
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 6 6:10 AM
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                              Apparently, when I searched for the trained strip, the link above was not shown, but the older trained strip. So a national source DOES say red and tan for CS leaders.

                              Also the 2009 Insignia Guide does state this as well, but that has not been placed online still. And I beleive it is now out of print, but don't quote me on that.

                              Me personally, when it comes to which BSA department to listen to, I'd go with the one that has primary responsibility for whatever I'm looking for. So for uniform stuff, i.e. the trained strip, I'd go with Supply since they are responsible for that. But in regards to training syllabi, it's definately Training.

                              Although as I stated, all this could easily be fixed if everyone wore the same colors, except Sea Scouts since they don't wear unit numbers or trained strips. ;)
                            • Connie Knie
                              I am sorry you had to be hit with the fiasco blow back but hey you can console yourself with the fact that your people care about the fact that they have the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 6 7:26 AM
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                                I am sorry you had to be hit with the fiasco blow back but hey you can console yourself with the fact that your people care about the fact that they have the correct insignia sewn on............ :)

                                Connie

                                --- On Tue, 3/6/12, G.J. <gjjudd@...> wrote:

                                Now how do i know all this? I got a bunch of angry complaints from parents and leaders on this topic when this fiasco was unfolding. Not happy campers buying and sewing on stuff that they were told is proper, only to find out a few months later that

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Paul
                                ... work and no one has any idea what the heck is going on. Also I see that miscommunication within the BSA departments still exists. :) Yes, it is very
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 6 8:23 AM
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                                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "G.J." <gjjudd@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I see the switching of the numbers and trained strip snafu is still at
                                  work and no one has any idea what the heck is going on. Also I see that
                                  miscommunication within the BSA departments still exists. :)

                                  Yes, it is very confusing, but I'm hoping the "about-to-be -released"
                                  Guide to Awards and Insignia will clear this up. According to the Guide
                                  to Advancement 2011 (paragraph 3.0.0.4), the guide is scheduled to be
                                  released in "winter 2012".

                                  Paul Y
                                  District Advancement & Recognition Chair
                                  Thunderbird District
                                  Inland Northwest Council
                                  Spokane WA
                                  "Once a Fox, always a Fox"
                                • G.J.
                                  John, As you mentioned, the Sea Scout Manual states that numbers are not to be worn on the Sea Scout uniforms. And as you know that has been policy since 2002
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 6 6:40 PM
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                                    John,

                                    As you mentioned, the Sea Scout Manual states that numbers are not to be worn on the Sea Scout uniforms. And as you know that has been policy since 2002 with all the uniform changes, i.e no "bugs" on covers, no unit numbers, limit of 6 knots, etc. I personally do not agree with that policy, but it is the national rules.

                                    But I also know a lot of traditional Sea Scout ships still wear the traditional insignia. I also know a few ships still wear their "piratical costumes" from pre-2002. I still have mine in the closet.

                                    BTW, if you do buy any Sea Scout items from national, look at the tags. When I was updating my Sea Scout uniform to the current national white uniform for the Sea Scout Centennial this year, the insignia I bought had "Sea Explorer" still labeled on it.

                                    Jerry
                                  • linda_domnick
                                    Here s more info regarding the new Leader Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders This is a stand alone module. This is the training for LDS Den Leaders and is a
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 7 1:17 PM
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                                      Here's more info regarding the new Leader Specific Training for LDS Den
                                      Leaders

                                      This is a stand alone module. This is the training for LDS Den Leaders
                                      and is a stand alone module. It is only two hours long. Instead of the
                                      four hour cub training module. There is a new cub training module
                                      coming out within a month. That also will only be about two hours. The
                                      National Training Committee is creating training that is much more
                                      useful and less fluff. They have been listening to what cub leaders
                                      need and so the change. That being said, until the new cub syllabus
                                      come down the pike, I am treating this training as just another break
                                      out of the total cub training day. Also this new Den Leader training
                                      will not be put online. It is a hands-on training because Den Leaders
                                      need to see and do this training.

                                      From the National Training Committee: "To date, the only cultural
                                      diversity we have had in our training is to translate our syllabi into
                                      Spanish. We are now beginning to target our major chartered
                                      organizations and provide training which is specific to their culture or
                                      community. Because the LDS church is the largest chartered partner and
                                      because we have more den leaders than anything else; we started with LDS
                                      Den Leader training. The attached syllabus can be presented in about 2
                                      hours and will be recorded as C42 just like the current Den Leader
                                      Specific. Soon (perhaps as early as tonight), this will be posted to
                                      www.scouting.org/training/adult <http://www.scouting.org/training/adult>
                                      , but until then feel free to distribute this as you see fit. It will
                                      not be produced in hard copy."


                                      I hope that helps!



                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Scott Smith <smithds@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Absolutely! The following are some informative resource links on the
                                      LDS
                                      > church's website concerning instructions to LDS Scouting Leaders for
                                      > training and for Scouting in general:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/scout-leader-tr\
                                      aining.pdf?lang=eng
                                      >
                                      >
                                      http://www.lds.org/service/serving-in-the-church/aaronic-priesthood/lead\
                                      er-resources/scouting?lang=eng
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Scott Smith
                                      > ADC Spanish Trails for LDS units in the Tucson Arizona Rincon Stake
                                      > Catalina Council
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I thought LDS leaders had to go through training? I mean they were
                                      > > made to be their church. No?
                                      > >
                                      > > Connie
                                      > >
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bill
                                      Mike, My understanding is that trial period already occurred. Bill
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 9 5:46 AM
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                                        Mike,
                                        My understanding is that trial period already occurred.

                                        Bill

                                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Michael Crothers <dowrightbw@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > A. At my area bi-monthly telephone conference for council training chairs I was told the following:
                                        >
                                        > 1. Don't worry about this, as there will be a trial period using this syllabus.
                                        >
                                        > 2. The trial will be primarily in the Western US.   
                                        >
                                        > B. It looks like that was wrong.
                                        >
                                        > Yours In Scouting
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Mike Crothers
                                        >
                                        > Tecumseh Council Training Chair
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I used to be a good old Bob White NE-CS-11
                                        >
                                        > and a good old staffer too NE-CS-13
                                        >
                                        > and I used to be a good old Fox WE4-57-06
                                        >
                                        > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Ryan L <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: Ryan L <rd_lancaster@...>
                                        > Subject: [Scouter_T] Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders
                                        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 10:37 PM
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        > The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this morning that there is now an official "Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders" on scouting.org
                                        >
                                        > http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-025.pdf
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The syllabus is for Wolf and Bear Den Leaders, and is definitely LDS specific. I skimmed the document tonight and there are section on scouting in the church, quotes from the Primary general president, references to church, church documents, church positions throughout.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Did anyone know this was coming? It was mentioned in the Winter 2012 Training update (http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx) but has anyone heard any background about this? Was it requested by SLC? Was it created with input from church HQ? or LDS volunteers?
                                        >
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                                        > I don't know if this is a good idea or not... Generally I'm not in favor of segregating LDS units and leaders even more than they already are in the Scouting community.
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        > Ryan
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                                        > Meridian, ID
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                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                      • Bill
                                        No, they are still considered trained. They can either take this new training, the online training or the older syllabus. Any of the training would yield a
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Mar 9 5:48 AM
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                                          No, they are still considered trained. They can either take this new training, the online training or the older syllabus. Any of the training would yield a C42 "trained" indication on their records.

                                          Bill

                                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Wow! Does this mean that Wolf and Bear Den Leaders registered with LDS
                                          > units are not considered trained if they have completed their training
                                          > online at MyScouting.org?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 3/4/2012 11:37 PM, Ryan L wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > The BSA Volunteer Training Team posted on their facebook page this
                                          > > morning that there is now an official "Leader-Specific Training for
                                          > > LDS Den Leaders" on scouting.org
                                          > > http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-025.pdf
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Herb
                                          Here is the solution. Wear a green one if you enjoyed the training and red one if you didn t h
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Mar 10 5:53 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Here is the solution. Wear a green one if you enjoyed the training and red one if you didn't
                                            h

                                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Baake" <jbaake@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA
                                            > says:
                                            >
                                            > Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                                            > a khaki background with red lettering and border while the second has a
                                            > khaki background with green lettering and border (centennial edition).
                                            > Quoted from http://scouting.org/scoutsource/awards_central/trainedstrip.aspx
                                            >
                                            > If someone has a citation prescribing the red and tan patch for cubs and the
                                            > green and tan for boy scouts that would be useful.
                                            >
                                            > Jon
                                            >
                                            > NCAC
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            > Of G.J.
                                            > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:32 AM
                                            > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Leader-Specific Training for LDS Den Leaders
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I know I've hadd challenges getting LDS leaders to go through training. If
                                            > this helps provide a good program for the Cubs, more power to them.
                                            >
                                            > On a pet peeve of mine, I like how they show the wrong TRAINED patch, Cub
                                            > leaders wear red and tan, not the green and tan.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • David Wildschuetz
                                            LOL....I like that. David Wildschuetz Scoutmaster, Troop 310 http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com ________________________________ From: Herb
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Mar 10 8:39 AM
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                                              LOL....I like that.
                                              David Wildschuetz
                                              Scoutmaster, Troop 310
                                              http://bstroop1310.scoutlander.com




                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Herb <hadulzo@...>
                                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sat, March 10, 2012 7:53:23 AM
                                              Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trained Leader Patches


                                              Here is the solution. Wear a green one if you enjoyed the training and red one
                                              if you didn't
                                              h

                                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Baake" <jbaake@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Sorry to disappoint G.J but there is apparently no wrong trained patch. BSA
                                              > says:
                                              >
                                              > Two versions are available; either may be worn with any BSA uniform; one has
                                              > a khaki background with red lettering and border while the second has a
                                              > khaki background with green lettering and border (centennial edition).
                                              > Quoted from http://scouting.org/scoutsource/awards_central/trainedstrip.aspx
                                              >
                                              > If someone has a citation prescribing the red and tan patch for cubs and the
                                              > green and tan for boy scouts that would be useful.
                                              >
                                              > Jon
                                              >
                                              > NCAC
                                              >
                                              >


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