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Re: Help! - Keeping the Schedule

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  • Chris Finnegan
    We ran both New Leader Essentials and position specific yesterday. New Leader Essentials went reasonably on time, because it s an integrated syllabus. The
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 23, 2001
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      We ran both New Leader Essentials and position specific yesterday.
      New Leader Essentials went reasonably on time, because it's an
      integrated syllabus. The Syllabus and Powerpoint mesh nicely
      together. I ran Cub Den Leader specific and that ran WAYYYYY over
      time. Part of it is unfamilarity with the new format, part is
      the "parking lot" concept (which got tons of good reviews), but most,
      IMHO, is that the syllabus, powerpoint, video and other materials
      don't flow together well. It leaves a lot to your own interpretation
      to fill in the blanks. Some folks leave feeling like a lot of blanks
      were left. The parking lot thing works to get some of that cleared
      up, but the old CLBT answered directly a lot of the questions brought
      up in the parking lot. If time is your primary goal, stick to the
      syllabus strictly. If really training and answering the questions
      from the group is your goal, then toss the clock out.
      I think the basic concept of the new training is good, but I suspect
      a major rewrite of at least the Den leader portion is necessary. I
      heard feedback from other position trainers and the same complaint
      was heard.

      --- In scouter_t@y..., JNDunnMN@a... wrote:
      > I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
      > Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
      .................
    • Margaret Eacker
      on 9/22/01 4:40 PM, JNDunnMN@aol.com at JNDunnMN@aol.com wrote: I ve just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader Essentials last Monday.
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 23, 2001
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        on 9/22/01 4:40 PM, JNDunnMN@... at JNDunnMN@... wrote:

        I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
        Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
        something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we seem
        to be having even more trouble.

        Last MOnday's session started at 6:00 and ran until 8:15. Today we
        started NLE at 1:00 and ran until 3:00 and then started Cub Scout
        Position Specific Training. Unfortunately, some people had expected
        to leave at 4:00 - when we let those few go, most of the rest fled
        and we ended up with 10 of 30 staying for the whole session - which
        we ended up cutting short.

        Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For
        those of you who've done this more than twice - is it just a function
        of being unfamiliar with the syllabus?

        I'd appreciate suggestions because we have to present again next
        Saturday and the following Monday and then again in October and
        November.

        YiS,
        Jamie Dunn
        P.512
        Pack Trainer
        Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
        Cub Scout Training Chair
        3 Rivers District


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Start here...

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        Weight:
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        I have done the NLE 3 times now and found it to be pretty consistent at 2
        hours.
        I have not had any problems with the Cub Specifics running over

        Margaret Eacker


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Vaughan
        We also had trouble the first time through the New Leader Essentials as a staff. We cut the staff back to 2-3 people and it worked like clock work. David
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 23, 2001
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          We also had trouble the first time through the New Leader Essentials as a
          staff. We cut the staff back to 2-3 people and it worked like clock work.

          David Vaughan
          Council Training Chair
          Southern Sierra Council
          dvaughan@...
          Always a Buffalo
          W4-57-86


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Margaret Eacker" <eackerm@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 9:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Help! - Keeping the Schedule


          > on 9/22/01 4:40 PM, JNDunnMN@... at JNDunnMN@... wrote:
          >
          > I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
          > Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
          > something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we seem
          > to be having even more trouble.
          >
          > Last MOnday's session started at 6:00 and ran until 8:15. Today we
          > started NLE at 1:00 and ran until 3:00 and then started Cub Scout
          > Position Specific Training. Unfortunately, some people had expected
          > to leave at 4:00 - when we let those few go, most of the rest fled
          > and we ended up with 10 of 30 staying for the whole session - which
          > we ended up cutting short.
          >
          > Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For
          > those of you who've done this more than twice - is it just a function
          > of being unfamiliar with the syllabus?
          >
          > I'd appreciate suggestions because we have to present again next
          > Saturday and the following Monday and then again in October and
          > November.
          >
          > YiS,
          > Jamie Dunn
          > P.512
          > Pack Trainer
          > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
          > Cub Scout Training Chair
          > 3 Rivers District
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Start here...
          >
          > Height:
          > 3 4 5 6 7 8 ft 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 in
          >
          > Weight:
          > lbs. kg.
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          > I have done the NLE 3 times now and found it to be pretty consistent at 2
          > hours.
          > I have not had any problems with the Cub Specifics running over
          >
          > Margaret Eacker
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • shattuckb@aol.com
          We ve run NLE twice and it has run about 1-3/4 hours. Bill Moose Shattuck
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 23, 2001
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            We've run NLE twice and it has run about 1-3/4 hours.
            Bill "Moose" Shattuck
          • Dan Smith
            From: Margaret Eacker Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For those of you who ve done this more than twice - is it just a function
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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              From: Margaret Eacker
              "Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For
              those of you who've done this more than twice - is it just a function
              of being unfamiliar with the syllabus?"

              We had our first presentation of NLE a couple of weeks ago and came in right on time. I previously served on Wood Badge staff and used the same techniques with this. To accomplish bringing it in on time which is important, you must stick with the syllabus and not branch out to add tidbits that you feel are important or interesting. We also kept discussion brief. We told those who wanted to debate or extensively discuss items or those who asked questions that were really off the subject that we would discuss or provide their answers after the end of the session. This seemed to satisfy the trainees and kept the program flowing.

              We used the bridges and I recommend that others do so. The participants enjoyed assembling the bridge and we handed out the required piece at the end of the session which kept them from concentrating on bridge building rather than the presentation.

              YIS,
              Dan Smith
              Chattahoochee District Commissioner
              Northeast Georgia Council





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jak Stallings
              We did a NLE/CS PST (Position Specific Training) last Saturday. We did pretty well keeping on schedule with the PST, but ran about 20 minutes total behing on
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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                We did a NLE/CS PST (Position Specific Training) last
                Saturday. We did pretty well keeping on schedule with the
                PST, but ran about 20 minutes total behing on the NLE.
                This appears fairly typical for our delivery of NLE and
                we're working on getting closer to the schedule. The first
                session (scheduled for 20 minutes) accounts for about 10
                minutes of the overrun. It looks like part of that is
                "getting things moving" and part is something else. The
                "getting things moving" part will get better as we gain
                experience. We also tend to go over in the Keeping
                Scouting Safe section. That is mainly due to questions.
                We're trying to deal with those quickly and are looking at
                making supplemental handouts to cover the FAQs and our pet
                points of emphasis to get that back on track.

                My first priority is to train folks. This means we'll
                answer questions and deal with things as needed even if it
                means that we'll run over a bit. That said, I do feel it
                is important to run close to schedule since people have
                neither patience or stamina for training marathons. That's
                why the CSLBT was cut from 8 hours to 4 hours about 10
                years ago. We do use the "parking lot" concept for all
                phases (not just the PST) and that should help as we become
                more proficient. We spent every break and a fair bit of
                time after the training answering (1 on 1)questions we
                delayed to these times.

                So far, I do think the training is an improvement. We'll
                learn to use it better and will improve with experience.

                YiS,
                Jak Stallings
                Prairieville, LA

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              • Marshall J Creighton
                Jamie, we had the same problem with NLS and NLE. The new syllabus does not allow for much discussion during the presentation, hence the parking lot concept.
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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                  Jamie, we had the same problem with NLS and NLE. The new syllabus does not
                  allow for much discussion during the presentation, hence the "parking lot"
                  concept. We've done NLE twice and NLS all once. We did the Cub portion of
                  NLS all on one Saturday, from 8:00am until 9:00pm. It is our opinion that
                  we allow an extra hour, at least, per NLE and NLS session to get through
                  all of the stuff a person needs to. NLS may need an extra 90 minutes for
                  some of the sessions. During our attempt at training, we had questions on
                  the forms Cubbers use, on Camping, on advancement, on Youth Protection,
                  etc. that we just couldn't get into and stay within time limits. My
                  training team is in the process of extending each session to cover what we
                  use to cover in the "old " Cub training, but was left out of the "new"
                  training. Our next session is this Saturday. We will see how it goes.

                  Marshall Creighton
                  District Training Chair
                  River Trails District
                  Ozark Trails Council




                  JNDunnMN@aol.
                  com To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  cc:
                  09/22/2001 Subject: [Scouter_T] Help! - Keeping the Schedule
                  06:40 PM
                  Please
                  respond to
                  scouter_t





                  I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
                  Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
                  something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we seem
                  to be having even more trouble.

                  Last MOnday's session started at 6:00 and ran until 8:15. Today we
                  started NLE at 1:00 and ran until 3:00 and then started Cub Scout
                  Position Specific Training. Unfortunately, some people had expected
                  to leave at 4:00 - when we let those few go, most of the rest fled
                  and we ended up with 10 of 30 staying for the whole session - which
                  we ended up cutting short.

                  Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For
                  those of you who've done this more than twice - is it just a function
                  of being unfamiliar with the syllabus?

                  I'd appreciate suggestions because we have to present again next
                  Saturday and the following Monday and then again in October and
                  November.

                  YiS,
                  Jamie Dunn
                  P.512
                  Pack Trainer
                  Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                  Cub Scout Training Chair
                  3 Rivers District


                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor






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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lloyd Solis
                  Our NLE segment was conducted by only two of us. It was extremely difficult for me. My scoutmaster did the verbal presentation for section 1,2,3. I did the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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                    Our NLE segment was conducted by only two of us. It was extremely difficult for
                    me. My scoutmaster did the 'verbal' presentation for section 1,2,3. I did the
                    power point for the entire course and the 'verbal' for sessions 4-7. It was
                    tough going and we ran slightly overtime.
                    Lloyd

                    David Vaughan wrote:

                    > We also had trouble the first time through the New Leader Essentials as a
                    > staff. We cut the staff back to 2-3 people and it worked like clock work.
                    >
                    > David Vaughan
                    > Council Training Chair
                    > Southern Sierra Council
                    > dvaughan@...
                    > Always a Buffalo
                    > W4-57-86
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Margaret Eacker" <eackerm@...>
                    > To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 9:23 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Help! - Keeping the Schedule
                    >
                    > > on 9/22/01 4:40 PM, JNDunnMN@... at JNDunnMN@... wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
                    > > Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
                    > > something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we seem
                    > > to be having even more trouble.
                    > >
                    > > Last MOnday's session started at 6:00 and ran until 8:15. Today we
                    > > started NLE at 1:00 and ran until 3:00 and then started Cub Scout
                    > > Position Specific Training. Unfortunately, some people had expected
                    > > to leave at 4:00 - when we let those few go, most of the rest fled
                    > > and we ended up with 10 of 30 staying for the whole session - which
                    > > we ended up cutting short.
                    > >
                    > > Has anyone else had trouble, or are we just too long winded? For
                    > > those of you who've done this more than twice - is it just a function
                    > > of being unfamiliar with the syllabus?
                    > >
                    > > I'd appreciate suggestions because we have to present again next
                    > > Saturday and the following Monday and then again in October and
                    > > November.
                    > >
                    > > YiS,
                    > > Jamie Dunn
                    > > P.512
                    > > Pack Trainer
                    > > Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                    > > Cub Scout Training Chair
                    > > 3 Rivers District
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Start here...
                    > >
                    > > Height:
                    > > 3 4 5 6 7 8 ft 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 in
                    > >
                    > > Weight:
                    > > lbs. kg.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    > >
                    > > I have done the NLE 3 times now and found it to be pretty consistent at 2
                    > > hours.
                    > > I have not had any problems with the Cub Specifics running over
                    > >
                    > > Margaret Eacker
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Brant
                    ... We ve done NLE three times and NLP twice. NLE seemed to run just fine, even the first time through. There s not much time for questions. NLP was a
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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                      --- In scouter_t@y..., JNDunnMN@a... wrote:
                      > I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
                      > Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
                      > something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we
                      > seem to be having even more trouble.

                      We've done NLE three times and NLP twice.

                      NLE seemed to run just fine, even the first time through. There's
                      not much time for questions.

                      NLP was a different story from my perspective. I did the Webelos
                      breakout and found myself running very long. The first time, was
                      mainly unfamiliarity with the sylabus. The second time, I had some
                      areas that I cut completely. (For example, I cut the uniform game
                      and substituted a brief discussion of badge palcement. The most
                      questions come with the "temporary badges.")

                      There is a lot of material to cover with Webelos. I'm not sure that
                      there is enough time to cover it all in the time alotted. I'll do
                      better the next time, but will still feel rushed.

                      For the Boys,
                      Brant Lippincott
                      Plano, TX
                    • Larry D. Ohs, Attorney at Law
                      ... We did a Council-wide NLE and all of the Position Specific training (BS and CS) last Saturday. NLE was scheduled for 90 minutes but went 10 minutes longer
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 24, 2001
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                        --- In scouter_t@y..., JNDunnMN@a... wrote:
                        > I've just returned from a training session. I also did New Leader
                        > Essentials last Monday. We're have trouble finishing on time -
                        > something we weren't stellar at in the old syllabus, but now we
                        > seem to be having even more trouble.

                        We did a Council-wide NLE and all of the Position Specific training (BS and CS) last Saturday. NLE was scheduled for 90 minutes but went 10 minutes longer because other trainers kept adding to our presentation (some would call it butting in [grin] we'll work on preventing that next time) We had over 150 attend NLE, by far the largest training group we've ever had. Each table built the bridge. I did the Tiger Cub Den Leader training for 16 new leaders and finished about 10 minutes early. I will probably add in more info as we gain experience with the new TC program. I thank the list for your insights into the new TC program. The TC program has changed twice since I was an Adult Partner with my three sons so I drew on your postings often in preparing for my presentation.

                        It seems to me the training syllabus isn't as complete as the previous program, especially when it says "cover the material in Chapter X of the Cub Scout Leader Book," but the Scout office doesn't have the new version in yet for me to use. Thank goodness I was familiar with the previous training program and could draw on it to fill in the blanks in the new one.

                        I didn't think I would like the parking lot idea but it worked well when I remembered to look at it. Most of the questions were answered during the presentation. For those who haven't used it yet, we make a poster with parking lot lines drawn on it; the students write questions on sticky notes and "park" them in the appropriate column (e.g., Advancement/Uniform, Program). As you finish each part, you remove the questions you have answered from that column, answer the rest and end up with a clean parking lot at the end of the day. I still encouraged them to ask questions during my presentation.

                        Larry Ohs
                        Arborland District Training Committee
                        Cornhusker Council, Lincoln, Nebraska
                        "and a good old Fox, too" W5-63-00



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