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Re: Uniform--Red/Green

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  • Herb
    if you want a handout Uniform Inspection sheet calls for green. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf Does not specify numeral color. However
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 29, 2012
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      if you want a handout Uniform Inspection sheet calls for green.
      http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf Does not specify numeral color.
      However obsolete uniform parts are always considered "official"

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <paulp575@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dotson <michaeldotson@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Where can I find the official, complete explanation to talk about and
      > hand out?
      >
      > Maybe wait until the imminent release of the new Guide to Awards and
      > Insignia supposedly due out this month from National?
      >
      > Paul Y
      > District Advancement & Recognition Chair
      > Thunderbird District
      > Inland Northwest Council
      > Spokane WA
      > "Once a Fox, always a Fox"
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Debbie Mathews
      My understanding was that red epaulets went with the older uniforms and green went with the centennial and newer uniforms. But that said...I have nothing to
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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        My understanding was that red epaulets went with the older uniforms and green went with the centennial and newer uniforms. But that said...I have nothing to back it up.

        Deb
      • G.J.
        In regards to the uniform issue it has been a total mess IMHO. Between when the Centennial Uniforms (CUs) were announced in late April/early May 2008, and the
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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          In regards to the uniform issue it has been a total mess IMHO. Between when the Centennial Uniforms (CUs) were announced in late April/early May 2008, and the late May 2009 release of the Insignia Guide, there had been so many changes to the rules that not even national scout shop employees could give you the correct info.

          For example, at one time everyone in the CUs were to wear the green numbers and trained strips, including CS and their leaders. Then for a month (April/May 2009) it was announced that CS and their leaders would wear red on tan numbers. I remember seeing some literature about that AFTER I bought the numbers and trained strip for my TCDL uniform and being ticked off. Then in May 2009 it was announced that CS and their leaders wear red and whites still, and a new smaller trained strip would be available. But that info was not effectively communicated to local distributors, and I know of many new Webelos and CS leaders wearing the green numbers instead of red. And that caused folks to be ticked off.

          Anyway back to the original question. In the literature used as uniform guidance from April/May 2008 and May 2009, it stated that all uniform components of the Oscar DeLaRenta (ODLs) are interchangeable with the CUs. So you can wear the CU shirt with the old red loops and red and whites. You can also wear the old belts, socks, and other uniform items with the CUs. You can even wear old pants with the new shirts and vice versa.

          One thing about uniform inspection sheets and IG, they only list the MOST CURRENT rules and regs. Some of us old fogeys have uniform items that are no longer listed, and regs are no longer written about, but we are still authorized to wear.

          PM me if you want a copy of the literature about mixing and matching ODL and CU items.

          Jerry
        • techrescuemedic
          This is my understanding as well. If a certain item was ever considered part of an official uniform , it is still ok to wear...mixed and matched...whatever.
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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            This is my understanding as well. If a certain item was ever considered part of an "official uniform", it is still ok to wear...mixed and matched...whatever. A couple Wood Badge courses back, one of our participants showed up in an early 1970's vintage uniform, complete with the old red "city/town strips", and garrison cap. He caused a bit of a stir, but was perfectly legitimate. So, in theory, if I could still squeeze into my old Boy Scout uniform I could still wear it. Now, where did I put my old Cub Scout uniform???

            C. J. Johnson
            Training Committee Chair
            Big Pines District
            Crater Lake Council
            Medford, Oregon

            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "G.J." <gjjudd@...> wrote:

            >
            > Anyway back to the original question. In the literature used as uniform guidance from April/May 2008 and May 2009, it stated that all uniform components of the Oscar DeLaRenta (ODLs) are interchangeable with the CUs. So you can wear the CU shirt with the old red loops and red and whites. You can also wear the old belts, socks, and other uniform items with the CUs. You can even wear old pants with the new shirts and vice versa.
            >
            > One thing about uniform inspection sheets and IG, they only list the MOST CURRENT rules and regs. Some of us old fogeys have uniform items that are no longer listed, and regs are no longer written about, but we are still authorized to wear.
            >
            > PM me if you want a copy of the literature about mixing and matching ODL and CU items.
            >
            > Jerry
            >
          • Paul
            ... considered part of an official uniform , it is still ok to wear...mixed and matched...whatever. A couple Wood Badge courses back, one of our participants
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "techrescuemedic" <c.johnsonem@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > This is my understanding as well. If a certain item was ever
              considered part of an "official uniform", it is still ok to wear...mixed
              and matched...whatever. A couple Wood Badge courses back, one of our
              participants showed up in an early 1970's vintage uniform, complete with
              the old red "city/town strips", and garrison cap. He caused a bit of a
              stir, but was perfectly legitimate. So, in theory, if I could still
              squeeze into my old Boy Scout uniform I could still wear it. Now, where
              did I put my old Cub Scout uniform???

              I'm hoping the new Guide to Awards and Insignia due out in winter 2012
              will answer all these questions.

              Paul Y
              District Advancement & Recognition Chair
              Thunderbird District
              Inland Northwest Council
              Spokane WA
              "Once a Fox, always a Fox"




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Herb
              I have a solution. Anyone that complains about someone wearing the wrong color should be required to donate $10 to FOS. The loop color should be far down on
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                I have a solution. Anyone that complains about someone wearing the wrong color should be required to donate $10 to FOS. The loop color should be far down on our priorities however there is nothing wrong with the patrol leader's council deciding their troop should have all green, or if it realy bothers some busy body adult he can buy enough green loops for the whole scout troop and put an end to his or her pet peeve.
                herb d.
              • ftooth
                Nobody is complaining, eh? Frank ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                  Nobody is complaining, eh?
                  Frank


                  >________________________________
                  >From: Herb hadulzo@...
                  >

                  >I have a solution. Anyone that complains about someone wearing the wrong color should be required to donate $10 to FOS. The loop color should be far down on our priorities however there is nothing wrong with the patrol leader's council deciding their troop should have all green, or if it realy bothers some busy body adult he can buy enough green loops for the whole scout troop and put an end to his or her pet peeve.
                  >herb d.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Brian Duane
                  I know that every December, I wear one Red and one Green. For Pinewood Derby, I have my black and white checked and always wear those whether I am acting as a
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                    I know that every December, I wear one Red and one Green.



                    For Pinewood Derby, I have my black and white checked and always wear those
                    whether I am acting as a Cub Leader or an invited Scout Adult Leader.



                    Yours in Cheerful Service,



                    Brian (wanted in two councils by the uniform police)



                    P.S. There are no rules as such, but it seems generally fashion conscious to
                    wear red with red, and green with green.



                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Michael Dotson
                    Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:41 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Uniform--Red/Green





                    For our next SM/ASM training I want to talk more about the uniform since
                    recent questions came up about the epaulets and troop number change from red
                    to green. Is it no longer acceptable to wear the red? Do they need to
                    match? That is red numbers but green epaulet? Where can I find the
                    official, complete explanation to talk about and hand out?

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • A. Dukovic
                    Ok folks ... I see a trend here ... one red, one green ... I love it!!!  Move over on that wanted poster!! - Art [Non-text portions of this message have
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                      Ok folks ... I see a trend here ... one red, one green ... I love it!!!  Move over on that "wanted" poster!!

                      - Art

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chad Cooper
                      I m somehow picturing one red and one green worn with a pair of suspenders (one green and one red) with a roll of duct tape hooked to your belt... Don t know
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                        I'm somehow picturing one red and one green worn with a pair of
                        suspenders (one green and one red) with a roll of duct tape hooked to
                        your belt... Don't know where this visual is coming from ;-)

                        - Chad
                        Chief Black Dog, Northern Star Council

                        On 1/30/12 10:27 PM, A. Dukovic wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Ok folks ... I see a trend here ... one red, one green ... I love
                        > it!!! Move over on that "wanted" poster!!
                        >
                        > - Art
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • A. Dukovic
                        No, Chief Black Dog ... you re too far North and have it confused with Red Green ... but again, I m likin the visual ?? - Art [Non-text portions of this
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 30, 2012
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                          No, Chief Black Dog ... you're too far North and have it confused with "Red Green" ... but again, I'm likin the "visual"??

                          - Art

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Gregory Fast
                          Hi, Does anyone have a PowerPoint for Introduction to Outdoor Leadership ? If so, could you please send it to me? Thanks, Gregory Fast District Training
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 31, 2012
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                            Hi,

                            Does anyone have a PowerPoint for Introduction to Outdoor Leadership ?

                            If so, could you please send it to me?

                            Thanks,

                            Gregory Fast
                            District Training Commisioner
                            Totem Distrct
                            Great Alaska Council

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • A. Dukovic
                            Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose??  IOLS is supposed to be hands on in a patrol setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 31, 2012
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                              Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose??  IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT gonna work well. 



                              - Art

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • o32sks
                              Art, Although I do agree with you for the most part, we do have PowerPoints for three Friday night sessions, Flag etiquette, Leave No Trace and Campfire
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 31, 2012
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                                Art,

                                Although I do agree with you for the most part, we do have PowerPoints for three Friday night sessions, Flag etiquette, Leave No Trace and Campfire Planning. They are used in conjunction with hands on material like flag folding, skits, etc. It has worked well for us. We try very hard to never use ppts as a crutch, only for enhancement to drive key points. All the rest of our sessions are completely hands on.

                                Sharon
                                Mid-Iowa Council

                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "A. Dukovic" <artdukovic@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose??  IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT gonna work well. 
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > - Art
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • EIGHTOWLS@AOL.COM
                                Are you willing to share the PP s? In a message dated 1/31/2012 3:16:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, o32sharon@yahoo.com writes: Art, Although I do agree with
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jan 31, 2012
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                                  Are you willing to share the PP's?


                                  In a message dated 1/31/2012 3:16:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                  o32sharon@... writes:






                                  Art,

                                  Although I do agree with you for the most part, we do have PowerPoints for
                                  three Friday night sessions, Flag etiquette, Leave No Trace and Campfire
                                  Planning. They are used in conjunction with hands on material like flag
                                  folding, skits, etc. It has worked well for us. We try very hard to never use
                                  ppts as a crutch, only for enhancement to drive key points. All the rest of
                                  our sessions are completely hands on.

                                  Sharon
                                  Mid-Iowa Council

                                  --- In _scouter_t@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com) , "A.
                                  Dukovic" <artdukovic@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose?? IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands
                                  on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is
                                  really NOT gonna work well.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > - Art
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jon Baake
                                  In my experience this class is taught hands on 100% outdoors. No electricity and no PowerPoints. Jon Baake NCAC From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jan 31, 2012
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                                    In my experience this class is taught hands on 100% outdoors. No electricity
                                    and no PowerPoints.



                                    Jon Baake

                                    NCAC



                                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                    Of Gregory Fast
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:08 PM
                                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint







                                    Hi,

                                    Does anyone have a PowerPoint for Introduction to Outdoor Leadership ?

                                    If so, could you please send it to me?

                                    Thanks,

                                    Gregory Fast
                                    District Training Commisioner
                                    Totem Distrct
                                    Great Alaska Council

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Bill Nelson
                                    Where in the syllabus does IOLS mandate a “patrol setting”? From: A. Dukovic Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:53 PM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Subject:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                      Where in the syllabus does IOLS mandate a “patrol setting”?

                                      From: A. Dukovic
                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:53 PM
                                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint


                                      Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose?? IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT gonna work well.

                                      - Art

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bill Nelson
                                      Where in the syllabus does it say it has to be done 100% outdoors and without electricity? From: Jon Baake Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:51 PM To:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                        Where in the syllabus does it say it has to be done 100% outdoors and without electricity?

                                        From: Jon Baake
                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:51 PM
                                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint


                                        In my experience this class is taught hands on 100% outdoors. No electricity
                                        and no PowerPoints.

                                        Jon Baake

                                        NCAC

                                        From: mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                        Of Gregory Fast
                                        Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:08 PM
                                        To: mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint

                                        Hi,

                                        Does anyone have a PowerPoint for Introduction to Outdoor Leadership ?

                                        If so, could you please send it to me?

                                        Thanks,

                                        Gregory Fast
                                        District Training Commisioner
                                        Totem Distrct
                                        Great Alaska Council

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • averagejoe0269@yahoo.com
                                        Well it is Outdoor Leader Skills. Need to set the setting so participants are not bored and enjoy. Not a verbatim reading.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                          Well it is Outdoor Leader Skills. Need to set the setting so participants are not bored and enjoy. Not a verbatim reading.
                                        • Bill Nelson
                                          We need to teach the skills. That is the purpose of the class. But over the years people have added a lot of extras to the class and then mandated them.
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                            We need to teach the skills. That is the purpose of the class. But over the years people have added a lot of extras to the class and then mandated them. They are simply not in the syllabus. I can see use of PPT in certain settings. For example, if you have a place to project how to tie a taught line hitch it could help in teaching the skill. We need to focus on what we are doing here, we are teaching skills.
                                            From: averagejoe0269@...
                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:21 AM
                                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint


                                            Well it is Outdoor Leader Skills. Need to set the setting so participants are not bored and enjoy. Not a verbatim reading.





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • A. Dukovic
                                            Look in Both the introduction and course structure sections; it recommends patrol buddy pairs for practice, but you re NOT going to get a really good
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                              Look in Both the "introduction" and "course structure" sections; it recommends "patrol buddy pairs" for practice, but you're NOT going to get a really good demo in a large audience.
                                               
                                              Following this concept, my council does almost everything in a "patrol" setting using 3 or 4 "live-in coach" or what we call "LiNC"; participants finish the course really KNOWING the skills first hand, without question.


                                              - Art

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Charlie Hawes
                                              Hey Bill, if you are on a camp out with the boys or at Wood Badge training, do you not form patrols?  ITOLS is to introduce the skills to the leaders so they
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Feb 2, 2012
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                                                Hey Bill, if you are on a camp out with the boys or at Wood Badge training, do you not form patrols?  ITOLS is to introduce the skills to the leaders so they can teach the skills to their boys.  ITOLS is not designed for individuality...
                                                 
                                                YIS (yours in scouting)
                                                Charlie  Hawes
                                                Sweetwater BSA District Trainer/ADC
                                                (863)398-7194



                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Bill Nelson <bnelson45@...>
                                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 8:12 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint


                                                 
                                                Where in the syllabus does IOLS mandate a “patrol setting”?

                                                From: A. Dukovic
                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:53 PM
                                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint

                                                Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose?? IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT gonna work well.

                                                - Art

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Charlie Hawes
                                                It doesn t say 100% outdoors or no electricity - however, how often have you run into an electrical outlet in a camp site? Does a troop teach camping skills
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Feb 2, 2012
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                                                  It doesn't say 100% outdoors or no electricity - however, how often have you run into an electrical outlet in a camp site? Does a troop teach camping skills that include use of electrical items? Hmmmm.... BSA camping guides have changed over the years - but it hasn't started using electricity in the woods yet.
                                                   
                                                  YIS (yours in scouting)
                                                  Charlie  Hawes
                                                  Sweetwater BSA District Trainer/ADC
                                                  (863)398-7194
                                                • Charlie Hawes
                                                  In today s world - teaching skills has advanced so the use of audio visual equipment can be an great tool.  Using a projector and a PPT presentation allows
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Feb 2, 2012
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                                                    In today's world - teaching skills has advanced so the use of audio visual equipment can be an great tool.  Using a projector and a PPT presentation allows for all participants to get the same message without a lot of fuss.  ITOLS can be taught part indoors and part outdoors without losing anything... try it you might like it.. we use 2 indoor sessions (2hrs each) and a weekend of camping.  It's nice to see the skill and then have hands on at the camp out - it really helps them retain more and thus give more back to their programs.
                                                     
                                                    YIS (yours in scouting)
                                                    Charlie  Hawes
                                                    Sweetwater BSA District Trainer/ADC
                                                    (863)398-7194
                                                  • gerrymoon32817
                                                    Page 12 in the one I m looking at. Each eight participants WILL form a patrol for the day or weekend course. That kinda sounds like a mandate to me.
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Feb 3, 2012
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                                                      Page 12 in the one I'm looking at. "Each eight participants WILL form a patrol for the day or weekend course. That kinda sounds like a "mandate" to me.

                                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Where in the syllabus does IOLS mandate a “patrol setting”?
                                                      >
                                                      > From: A. Dukovic
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:53 PM
                                                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Powerpoint kinda defeats the purpose?? IOLS is "supposed" to be "hands on" in a "patrol" setting so you can demo the skills; just doing PP is really NOT gonna work well.
                                                      >
                                                      > - Art
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                    • Bill Nelson
                                                      A “patrol buddy pairs” is not a Patrol. It is the buddy system. From: A. Dukovic Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:55 AM To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Feb 18, 2012
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                                                        A “patrol buddy pairs” is not a Patrol. It is the buddy system.

                                                        From: A. Dukovic
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:55 AM
                                                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Introduction to Outdoor Leadership PowerPoint


                                                        Look in Both the "introduction" and "course structure" sections; it recommends "patrol buddy pairs" for practice, but you're NOT going to get a really good demo in a large audience.

                                                        Following this concept, my council does almost everything in a "patrol" setting using 3 or 4 "live-in coach" or what we call "LiNC"; participants finish the course really KNOWING the skills first hand, without question.

                                                        - Art

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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