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RE: [Scouter_T] BSA Training Facebook Post

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  • Dan Kurtenbach
    Well, since I commented on the second part of the BSA Training Team Facebook posting (the part about teaching through activity), I guess I wouldn t say
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 3, 2012
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      Well, since I commented on the second part of the BSA Training Team Facebook posting (the part about teaching through activity), I guess I wouldn't say "ludicrous."

      I think the point of the first sentence about the study was intended to bolster the notion that there is value to "live" training that you can't get from online training (interaction with fellow students and the instructor). Three things about the post seemed odd to me, however. The first was the use of the word "misconceptions," which in this context suggests that Scouter training is primarily about correcting erroneous notions about Scouting. The second oddity to me was that the second part (the 1929 quote) really refers to the training of Scouts, not the training of Scout leaders. Finally, an "active, iterative process" is not the same thing as "teaching through activity," which is the point of the 1929 quote; you can have an "active, iterative process" with everyone sitting at desks in a classroom. It may have made more sense if the second sentence described EDGE (whether used with Scouts or Scouters) as a type of "active, iterative process."

      Dan Kurtenbach
      Fairfax, VA

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charlie Hawes
      In today s world of automation - online training is really popular; however, I m old fashioned and still believe that face-to-face, hands-on training is much
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 3, 2012
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        In today's world of automation - online training is really popular; however, I'm old fashioned and still believe that face-to-face, hands-on training is much more beneficial.  It is easier to tell if someone is getting the material or just reading it and then forgetting what they've read. Ludicrous might be a bit harsh...
         
        YIS (yours in scouting)
        Charlie  Hawes
        Sweetwater BSA District Trainer/ADC
        Three Rivers BSA District Trainer
        (863)398-7194


        ________________________________
        From: Herb <hadulzo@...>
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 1:44 PM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] BSA Training Facebook Post


         
        Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
        Herb D

        Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better through an active, iterative process that involves working through their misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from the instructor."
        Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in learning."




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Don Wilson
        Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the Fall 2011 issue of The Training Times is completely reviewed, BSA fully admits that
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 3, 2012
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          Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the
          Fall 2011 issue of "The Training Times" is completely reviewed, BSA
          fully admits that universal access has not been reached. In the article
          (Technology in Scouting: Are We As Connected As We Think?) "...34
          percent of urban, and just under half (49 percent) of rural households did
          not have broadband access in 2009. That was a huge decease over the 2000
          Census but broadband is not as widespread as most of us think." One
          comment on the "Trained or Trained" that BSA had posted better
          informaito0jn on Facebook. I would suggest that posting anything on
          Facebook and considerating that sufficient is the ludicrous.Addressing the
          content of the post, are the students identified supposed to be youth? BSA
          is seeing face to face instruction being eliminated where the "student" can
          access e-learning. Also that by eliminating face to face training, we are
          also eliminating training opportunities for many volunteers. The article
          ends with "Regardless of where we may be headed, in today's environment
          we cannot forget the Scouters and Scouts who need face-to-face training.
          Nor can we forger -- even if we do have universal access someday -- the
          value of interactive instructor-led, Scouting training."

          My three cents (inflation).

          Don Wilson
          OHC 427

          > Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
          > Herb D
          >
          >
          > Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better through an active, iterative process that involves working through their misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from the instructor."
          > Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in learning."
          >
          >
          >


          Don Wilson

          www.rigidflexibility.com
        • Herb
          Don unclear who the study participants were. However youth are more receptive to online education as long as there is lots of interaction . There is a
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 3, 2012
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            Don
            unclear who the study participants were. However youth are more receptive to online education as long as there is lots of interaction . There is a commercial for Microsoft right now where the kid animates the dad spread sheets. Pretty telling, though when an OA member makes a powerpoint for me it tends to be very basic. The do you best thing seems to get dropped by the wayside.

            h

            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Don Wilson" <don-wilson@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the
            > Fall 2011 issue of "The Training Times" is completely reviewed, BSA
            > fully admits that universal access has not been reached. In the article
            > (Technology in Scouting: Are We As Connected As We Think?) "...34
            > percent of urban, and just under half (49 percent) of rural households did
            > not have broadband access in 2009. That was a huge decease over the 2000
            > Census but broadband is not as widespread as most of us think." One
            > comment on the "Trained or Trained" that BSA had posted better
            > informaito0jn on Facebook. I would suggest that posting anything on
            > Facebook and considerating that sufficient is the ludicrous.Addressing the
            > content of the post, are the students identified supposed to be youth? BSA
            > is seeing face to face instruction being eliminated where the "student" can
            > access e-learning. Also that by eliminating face to face training, we are
            > also eliminating training opportunities for many volunteers. The article
            > ends with "Regardless of where we may be headed, in today's environment
            > we cannot forget the Scouters and Scouts who need face-to-face training.
            > Nor can we forger -- even if we do have universal access someday -- the
            > value of interactive instructor-led, Scouting training."
            >
            > My three cents (inflation).
            >
            > Don Wilson
            > OHC 427
            >
            > > Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
            > > Herb D
            > >
            > >
            > > Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better through an active, iterative process that involves working through their misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from the instructor."
            > > Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in learning."
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > Don Wilson
            >
            > www.rigidflexibility.com
            >
          • Michelle Gee
            The BSA not only post on Facebook – in fact, Facebook is the last place they post. The “trained” post on Facebook went out first to every employee of
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 4, 2012
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              The BSA not only post on Facebook – in fact, Facebook is the last place they post. The “trained” post on Facebook went out first to every employee of the BSA via e-mail, and through the Area Director newsletter. Then Facebook. The Training Times article was out before all that and says essentially the same thing.

              MG
              Edmond OK

              On Jan 3, 2012, at 3:45 PM, "Herb" <hadulzo@...> wrote:

              > Don
              > unclear who the study participants were. However youth are more receptive to online education as long as there is lots of interaction . There is a commercial for Microsoft right now where the kid animates the dad spread sheets. Pretty telling, though when an OA member makes a powerpoint for me it tends to be very basic. The do you best thing seems to get dropped by the wayside.
              >
              > h
              >
              > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Don Wilson" <don-wilson@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the
              > > Fall 2011 issue of "The Training Times" is completely reviewed, BSA
              > > fully admits that universal access has not been reached. In the article
              > > (Technology in Scouting: Are We As Connected As We Think?) "...34
              > > percent of urban, and just under half (49 percent) of rural households did
              > > not have broadband access in 2009. That was a huge decease over the 2000
              > > Census but broadband is not as widespread as most of us think." One
              > > comment on the "Trained or Trained" that BSA had posted better
              > > informaito0jn on Facebook. I would suggest that posting anything on
              > > Facebook and considerating that sufficient is the ludicrous.Addressing the
              > > content of the post, are the students identified supposed to be youth? BSA
              > > is seeing face to face instruction being eliminated where the "student" can
              > > access e-learning. Also that by eliminating face to face training, we are
              > > also eliminating training opportunities for many volunteers. The article
              > > ends with "Regardless of where we may be headed, in today's environment
              > > we cannot forget the Scouters and Scouts who need face-to-face training.
              > > Nor can we forger -- even if we do have universal access someday -- the
              > > value of interactive instructor-led, Scouting training."
              > >
              > > My three cents (inflation).
              > >
              > > Don Wilson
              > > OHC 427
              > >
              > > > Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
              > > > Herb D
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better through an active, iterative process that involves working through their misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from the instructor."
              > > > Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in learning."
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Don Wilson
              > >
              > > www.rigidflexibility.com
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • E Hebenthal
              One thing I ve seen about having more online training and less instructor training at the Cub Scout level is less participation by Cub Scout Leaders at a
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
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                One thing I've seen about having more online training and less instructor training at the Cub Scout level is less participation by Cub Scout Leaders at a District and Council level. There are less Cub Scout Leaders at Roundtable and less leaders available to help with events. I haven't the slightest idea what to do about it.

                Thanks,
                Elaine H.



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Don Wilson" <don-wilson@...>
                To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 4:10:59 PM
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BSA Training Facebook Post

                Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the
                Fall 2011 issue of "The Training Times" is completely reviewed, BSA
                fully admits that universal access has not been reached. In the article
                (Technology in Scouting: Are We As Connected As We Think?) "...34
                percent of urban, and just under half (49 percent) of rural households did
                not have broadband access in 2009. That was a huge decease over the 2000
                Census but broadband is not as widespread as most of us think." One
                comment on the "Trained or Trained" that BSA had posted better
                informaito0jn on Facebook. I would suggest that posting anything on
                Facebook and considerating that sufficient is the ludicrous.Addressing the
                content of the post, are the students identified supposed to be youth? BSA
                is seeing face to face instruction being eliminated where the "student" can
                access e-learning. Also that by eliminating face to face training, we are
                also eliminating training opportunities for many volunteers. The article
                ends with "Regardless of where we may be headed, in today's environment
                we cannot forget the Scouters and Scouts who need face-to-face training.
                Nor can we forger -- even if we do have universal access someday -- the
                value of interactive instructor-led, Scouting training."

                My three cents (inflation).

                Don Wilson
                OHC 427

                > Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
                > Herb D
                >
                >
                > Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better through an active, iterative process that involves working through their misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from the instructor."
                > Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in learning."
                >
                >
                >


                Don Wilson

                www.rigidflexibility.com



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              • WEBELOS
                Perhaps it is not the electronic training. Our last Cub Scout roundtable on January 5, had over 125 Cub Scouters. Our attendance at roundtable fluctuates
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 9, 2012
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                  Perhaps it is not the electronic training. Our last Cub Scout roundtable on
                  January 5, had over 125 Cub Scouters. Our attendance at roundtable
                  fluctuates from 80's into the 110's on a regular basis and as you can see we
                  surpassed that this month. We also typically have more Cub Scouters at our
                  district trainings than any other families of Scouting. We have had from
                  10-70 at Leader Specific and offer it four times a year and charge $5. We
                  have found that most prefer live training to online because they can ask
                  questions and get immediate feedback.

                  Happy Cubbing,
                  Michelle E.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: E Hebenthal
                  Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 3:56 PM
                  To: scouter t
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BSA Training Facebook Post

                  One thing I've seen about having more online training and less instructor
                  training at the Cub Scout level is less participation by Cub Scout Leaders
                  at a District and Council level. There are less Cub Scout Leaders at
                  Roundtable and less leaders available to help with events. I haven't the
                  slightest idea what to do about it.

                  Thanks,
                  Elaine H.



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Don Wilson" <don-wilson@...>
                  To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 4:10:59 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] BSA Training Facebook Post

                  Ludicrous? Absolutely, however perhaps not first for the content. If the
                  Fall 2011 issue of "The Training Times" is completely reviewed, BSA
                  fully admits that universal access has not been reached. In the article
                  (Technology in Scouting: Are We As Connected As We Think?) "...34
                  percent of urban, and just under half (49 percent) of rural households did
                  not have broadband access in 2009. That was a huge decease over the 2000
                  Census but broadband is not as widespread as most of us think." One
                  comment on the "Trained or Trained" that BSA had posted better
                  informaito0jn on Facebook. I would suggest that posting anything on
                  Facebook and considerating that sufficient is the ludicrous.Addressing the
                  content of the post, are the students identified supposed to be youth? BSA
                  is seeing face to face instruction being eliminated where the "student" can
                  access e-learning. Also that by eliminating face to face training, we are
                  also eliminating training opportunities for many volunteers. The article
                  ends with "Regardless of where we may be headed, in today's environment
                  we cannot forget the Scouters and Scouts who need face-to-face training.
                  Nor can we forger -- even if we do have universal access someday -- the
                  value of interactive instructor-led, Scouting training."

                  My three cents (inflation).

                  Don Wilson
                  OHC 427

                  > Who thinks its ludicrous for the BSA to post this on their Facebook page?
                  > Herb D
                  >
                  >
                  > Science Magazine 2011 - "A new study shows that students learn much better
                  > through an active, iterative process that involves working through their
                  > misconceptions with fellow students and getting immediate feedback from
                  > the instructor."
                  > Principles of Scoutmastership 1929 - "You Scoutmasters have a particular
                  > advantage over school teachers. The learning of the boys in your Troops is
                  > done through activity. So you men have the greatest possible advantage
                  > over us pedagogues in that you are teaching through activity which is the
                  > only way learning is acquired. We in the school are hemmed in by
                  > traditions that are still going through motions that do not result in
                  > learning."
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  Don Wilson

                  www.rigidflexibility.com



                  ------------------------------------

                  For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                  Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





                  ------------------------------------

                  For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

                  Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
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