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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Madatory

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  • Cpaitlres
    I have tried to make manditory in my council. I was told by the council legal that I couldn t make it manditory. I am still trying to figure to make it more
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 6, 2001
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      I have tried to make manditory in my council.

      I was told by the council legal that I couldn't make it manditory. I am
      still trying to figure to make it more necessary to be trained. Anyone have
      any ideas?

      National has also taken the position not to make training manditory.

      Rick Kagawa

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Alvin Williams [mailto:aew@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:11 AM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Madatory


      Doug, I agree. The greatest weakness in the BSA is leader training.
      That's not to say that we don't have good trainers, we have great
      trainers. We don't have a way to enforce the suggested training
      continuum. Mandatory training is the only way to insure that every youth
      has a trained leader.
      Let's start a movement.

      Alvin E. Williams
      Council Training Chair

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Doug Livingston [mailto:av8or@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:03 AM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Madatory

      Too bad it isn't like Scouting in some other countries where you
      aren't allowed to wear the uniform as a leader until you have been
      trained. That's what I would consider "mandatory".

      Doug Livingston
      District Training Chair



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    • Bill Nelson
      safe swim, baloo, and some other courses are manditory for certain activities. Is cub scout basic a pre-req for baloo? If so, wouldn t that make it mandatory
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 6, 2001
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        safe swim, baloo, and some other courses are manditory for certain
        activities. Is cub scout basic a pre-req for baloo? If so, wouldn't
        that make it mandatory for some activities *sly grin*

        bill
      • Ken Todd
        Bill, Since the target audience for BALOO is parents who are not Den or Pack Leaders, Basic Training is not required for this or any of the other courses you
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 7, 2001
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          Bill,

          Since the target audience for BALOO is parents who are not Den or Pack
          Leaders, Basic Training is not required for this or any of the other
          courses you mentioned.

          Yours in Scouting,
          Ken

          --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          Message: 4
          Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:20:56 -0000
          From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
          Subject: Re: Training Madatory

          safe swim, baloo, and some other courses are manditory for certain
          activities. Is cub scout basic a pre-req for baloo? If so, wouldn't
          that make it mandatory for some activities *sly grin*

          bill



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        • Lloyd Solis
          I think BSA really missed the boat on their descriptive recommended target for BALOO. Sure, it s great to expose new leaders to the concepts of outdoor
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 7, 2001
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            I think BSA really missed the boat on their 'descriptive recommended target'
            for BALOO.
            Sure, it's great to 'expose new leaders' to the concepts of outdoor leader
            training. The way it's worded appears to suggest that it's not important for
            'current pack leadership'. That's a shame.
            All leaders, including committee people should have a working knowledge of cub
            camping, even if they never 'hit the woods'.
            YiS
            Lloyd

            Ken Todd wrote:

            > Bill,
            >
            > Since the target audience for BALOO is parents who are not Den or Pack
            > Leaders, Basic Training is not required for this or any of the other
            > courses you mentioned.
            >
            > Yours in Scouting,
            > Ken
            >
            > --- scouter_t@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > Message: 4
            > Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:20:56 -0000
            > From: "Bill Nelson" <bnelson45@...>
            > Subject: Re: Training Madatory
            >
            > safe swim, baloo, and some other courses are manditory for certain
            > activities. Is cub scout basic a pre-req for baloo? If so, wouldn't
            > that make it mandatory for some activities *sly grin*
            >
            > bill
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
            > http://im.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
            >
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          • Bill Smith
            ... Lloyd, I must respectfully disagree with you on that. I believe that this is one of the better ideas that the National CS Committee has come up with. The
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 7, 2001
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              Lloyd Solis wrote:

              > I think BSA really missed the boat on their 'descriptive recommended target'
              > for BALOO.
              > Sure, it's great to 'expose new leaders' to the concepts of outdoor leader
              > training. The way it's worded appears to suggest that it's not important for
              > 'current pack leadership'. That's a shame.
              > All leaders, including committee people should have a working knowledge of cub
              >
              > camping, even if they never 'hit the woods'.

              Lloyd, I must respectfully disagree with you on that.
              I believe that this is one of the better ideas that the National CS Committee
              has
              come up with.
              The outdoor program is merely a method, albeit a good one, but the the objective

              is not better camping, or even camping at all. The objectives are, in part,
              family
              understanding, fun and adventure.
              When the current leadership of a pack takes on yet another job or
              responsibility, there is a tendency to hurt at least two boys: 1) the son of
              the now overloaded leader who now must sacrifice more of his/her
              family time for the good of the pack, and 2) the boy who could have
              had a parent role model helping make the pack go but won't because
              we let that parent take a free baby sitting role.

              Good pack and den leaders should steadfastly refuse to take BALOO
              training. Force another parent to go.
              --
              Bill Smith
              Sunset Trail District
              Cascade Pacific Council
              Portland, Oregon

              The best gift for a Cub Scout:
              Get his parents involved.
              http://www.wtsmith.com/rt.html



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sean Scott
              ... target for BALOO. ... leader ... for ... of cub ... of ... Ooof! I agree with you both! There s lots of cool stuff in BALOO that goes beyond camping and
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 7, 2001
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                Lloyd Solis wrote:
                > > I think BSA really missed the boat on their 'descriptive recommended
                target' for BALOO.
                > > Sure, it's great to 'expose new leaders' to the concepts of outdoor
                leader
                > > training. The way it's worded appears to suggest that it's not important
                for
                > > 'current pack leadership'. That's a shame.
                > > All leaders, including committee people should have a working knowledge
                of cub
                > > camping, even if they never 'hit the woods'.
                >
                Bill wrote in reply (in part):
                > Lloyd, I must respectfully disagree with you on that.
                > When the current leadership of a pack takes on yet another job or
                > responsibility, there is a tendency to hurt at least two boys: 1) the son
                of
                > the now overloaded leader who now must sacrifice more of his/her
                > family time for the good of the pack, and 2) the boy who could have
                > had a parent role model helping make the pack go but won't because
                > we let that parent take a free baby sitting role.
                >
                > Good pack and den leaders should steadfastly refuse to take BALOO
                > training. Force another parent to go.

                Ooof! I agree with you both! There's lots of cool stuff in BALOO that goes
                beyond camping and is easily worked into den and pack meetings. In fact,
                many of the leaders that took our BALOO in March wrote on their evaluations
                that BALOO should be mandatory for all leaders, even if they never go
                camping. Others noted that the Planning, Hikes and Games segments should be
                part of basic training, and that BSA is remiss in not exposing every leader
                to those ideas.

                How about some of the pack leaders go and take the fresh parents with 'em?

                Sean Scott
                Training Chairman
                Cub Roundtable Commissioner
                Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District
                Family FOS Chairman, California Inland Empire Council

                WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."
              • Bill Smith
                ... Yes, Sean there certainly is a lot of great stuff there, and I m sure that a good RT Commissioner (names to be unmentioned) will see to it that all current
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 7, 2001
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                  Sean Scott wrote:

                  > There's lots of cool stuff in BALOO that goes

                  > beyond camping and is easily worked into den and pack meetings. In fact,

                  > many of the leaders that took our BALOO in March wrote on their evaluations
                  > that BALOO should be mandatory for all leaders, even if they never go
                  > camping. Others noted that the Planning, Hikes and Games segments should be
                  > part of basic training, and that BSA is remiss in not exposing every leader
                  > to those ideas.
                  >

                  Yes, Sean there certainly is a lot of great stuff there, and I'm sure
                  that a good RT Commissioner (names to be unmentioned) will
                  see to it that all current leaders get it when they attend RT.
                  I know they will RT attend because they only have one job in
                  their pack and don't feel that one more night away from home
                  is a burden on their families. ;)

                  --
                  Bill Smith
                  Sunset Trail District
                  Cascade Pacific Council
                  Portland, Oregon

                  The best gift for a Cub Scout:
                  Get his parents involved.
                  http://www.wtsmith.com/rt.html



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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