Scouting.org training updates
- The "monthly" training updates have been posted with an explanation of why nothing has been posted since november.
- Interpretation of "Should" . Since scouts always do their best and the motto is prepared a good webelos leader is fully trained including outdoor training.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "spatula751" <bsutilla@...> wrote:
> I too just opened the thread this morning and now I must respond. I am
> going to print verbage from a few sources, then respond.
> From the Guide to Safe Scouting
> Age Guidelines
> The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for
> its members' participation in camping activities:
> * Overnight camping by Tiger Cub, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as
> dens is not approved, and certificates of liability insurance will not
> be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.
> * Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps,
> pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.
> * Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a
> resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping
> School trained leadership and managed by the council.
> * A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when
> supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under
> the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each
> Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint
> Webelos den/troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts
> are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den
> leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on
> approved trips.
> * All Scouts registered in Boy Scout troops are eligible to
> participate in troop or patrol overnight campouts, camporees, and
> resident camps.
> * Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts 12 through 17 are eligible to
> participate in national jamborees. Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts 13
> through 17 are also eligible to participate in world jamborees and
> high-adventure programs.
> * All youth registered in Venturing are eligible to participate in
> crew, district, council, and national Venturing activities as well as
> national high-adventure programs and world jamborees.
> If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these
> age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions
> often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the
> child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as
> a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers.
> Family Camping
> Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping,
> that involves Cub Scouting , Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements
> in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at
> least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the
> supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply.
> Recreational Family
> Camping Recreational family camping occurs when Scouting families camp
> as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured
> camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on
> local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family
> camping grounds available for rent at reasonable rates. Other resources
> may include equipment, information, and training.
> References: Resident Camping for Cub Scouting, No. 13-33814,
> Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, No. 510-631,
> and Scoutmaster Handbook, No. 33009
> Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities
> Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than
> accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout
> Family Camping
> Pack Overnighters
> These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family
> from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and
> conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter
> Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate,
> the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health
> and safety and Youth Protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each
> youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In
> all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.
> At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult
> Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the
> importance of program intent, Youth Protection guidelines, health and
> safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult
> participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use
> Tour Plan, No. 680-014. Reference: Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines,
> No. 510-631
> Now, first when National says "Cub Scout" or say "Pack" they are all
> inclusive to all the programs in Cub Scouting. This includes Tigers,
> Wolfs, Bears and Webelos. Thus, BALOO is REQUIRED for any Pack
> organized overnight event. When you file a tour plan, you can't file it
> as Den; you file as a Pack. Thus it is a Pack event; thus BALOO is
> So, whey do we even have Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders?
> Because that course is designed to teach Webelos leaders how to
> deliver/teach the outdoor Webelos Activity Pin awards. Just like
> Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is designed to teach Boy Scout
> Leaders how to deliver/teach the outdoor skills in the First Class
> The two courses are NOT the same, AND should not be taught together.
> BALOO is a course that can be taught inside in the dead of winter; the
> only outdoor must for BALOO is the cooking. BALOO is a safety course;
> OLSWL is a skills course.
> This is why BALOO is required for any overnight Pack (all inclusive)
> event. And as someone who has processed tour permits in 5 different
> councils if you don't have it; it will be denied.
> Yours in Scouting,
> Brian Sutilla
> District Director
> --- In email@example.com, "Mark Huber" <MHuber@> wrote:
> > I'm a bit surprised at all the discussion about the BSA being vague
> and open to interpretation on this policy. It is actually crystal clear
> when you read the G2SS. I.e., BALOO is *required* for *pack*
> overnighters. Leaders *should* have OLSWL for a Webelos Den
> > Don't read into these. Pack means pack, not Webelos Den. Should
> means should, not must. The BSA is not in the habit of publishing what
> is NOT policy, so there is no need to read into anything. If Webelos
> Den overnighters are not specifically mentioned in the statement about
> BALOO, then they are not bound by this policy. Period.
> > Now, that said, there's no such thing as being overtrained, and if you
> really want to provide the *best* possible program for your boys, then
> rationally you would want to take as much training as you can. Policies
> are about minimums, being the best is a different matter. The advice of
> the professional at National is good advice, but if it's not in print,
> then it's not a policy.
> > As for the mention of the legal aspects/concers, should something bad
> happen, this is not the purpose of either BALOO or OLSWL. Those are
> basic skills courses. Legal matters are only be concerned with YPT.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]