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Re: Interesting YP interpretation on outings

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  • marksowden@ymail.com
    This is a very interesting topic, in particular the previous quote about having a conscientious and involved COR rather than one who has no idea what the unit
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2011
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      This is a very interesting topic, in particular the previous quote about having a conscientious and involved COR rather than one who has no idea what the unit is doing. Previously this group has debated whether CORs need YPT as they are not direct contact leaders--and in fact--during last month's rechartering of my Pack, the COR, who has had YPT but is now out of date is NOT flagged as YPT non-compliant--as a couple of my Den Leaders were. I did offer our COR the option of completing it which he did. Perhaps, for some of the liability issues described above, and the risk of losing Chartered orgs, BSA should include YPT for CORs as mandatory too. Many COs are churches, many of which already have their own "safe church" practices--this should make them very aware of the need and encourage them to understand BSA's YPT and philosophy.

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Skrotzki" <fred-scouts@...> wrote:
      >
      > While that is what is written there are other items that also need to be
      > taken into account and in reality that would probably not happen.
      >
      > Tigers need their tiger parent so if any tigers go you already have another
      > adult attending for each one present.
      >
      > Using Mini vans you can only get let's say 6 per so you'd never travel to an
      > event like that with more then 12 boys and two adults who drive separately.
      > Yes there are those parents who believe and act like BSA means Baby Sitters
      > of America so they will do a drop and run. To someplace like the zoo it
      > probably takes as much time to get there and back twice as the whole trip
      > would last so they would most likely not leave.
      >
      > My local Pack and Troop go one step further and do three deep.
      > Justification at the troop level is simple For a weekend. Somebody get's
      > hurt, sick, emergency call from work, home etc. pulls a single adult from
      > only two and they whole group has to pack up and leave. Now with 3 deep you
      > can adjust and adapt. Kid get's hurt, needs to go home, etc. An adult, his
      > son along with the injured one go. The rest of the group can still stay.
      > We have had it happen enough that unless there are three adults we just
      > don't go.
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of Bill Ferguson
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:44 AM
      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Interesting YP interpretation on outings
      >
      > Hi, Connie,
      >
      > There's a larger issue here, too. I agree with you about the size and
      > seriousness of our potential legal liabilities as leaders, CORs, etc. On the
      > other hand, isn't it sad that we have to use civil law to drive leaders to
      > training that they should do anyway to benefit/protect their Scouts (as well
      > as themselves)?
      >
      > I suppose that, as an experienced Scouter whom I respect as a mentor puts
      > it, "You've got to start somewhere." So, if civil law brings more Scouts and
      > Scouters to the Scout Law and Methods, then so be it.
      >
      > Best and YIS,
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Connie Knie
      > <cknie23100@...>wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > I don't believe I have ever seen a more important reason to have an
      > > involved and consience COR.............. Can you imagine if something
      > > really got as far as a lawsuit how fast Scouts would be dropped from
      > > schools and churches?
      > > I mean who wants that kind of liability?
      > > Connie
      > >
      > > --- On Wed, 1/5/11, Bill Ferguson
      > > <wbfergusoniii@...<wbfergusoniii%40gmail.com>>
      > > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi, Connie,
      > >
      > > This is exactly the kind of sling that is waiting to catch an
      > > unsuspecting (and untrained) COR's bottom.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • Scouter Chuck
      ... Absolutely! [snip] ... [snip rest] What we need to remember, and most people tend to overlook, is that the 2 deep in the G2SS is a MINIMUM. I.e., the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2011
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        Fred Skrotzki wrote:

        > While that is what is written there are other items that also
        > need to be taken into account

        Absolutely!

        [snip]
        > My local Pack and Troop go one step further and do three deep.
        [snip rest]

        What we need to remember, and most people tend to overlook, is
        that the "2 deep" in the G2SS is a MINIMUM. I.e., the more the
        better. In my personal opinion, having only 3 leaders on an
        outing is almost as bad as having only 2.


        There are also state and local laws which need to be taken into
        account, such as "1 adult for every 5 children", or whatever the
        standard is for the age of the Cubs and what the local goverment
        has written in the statutes.

        BTW, looking back to the previous discussion on Tiger Cub Parent/
        Partners needing YPT, I asked the District Commissioner of my
        District about that at the District Committee Meeting last Tuesday.
        He said that absolutely the TCPP should have YPT. His reasoning
        is because they are in direct contact with the other boys in the
        Den, as well as their own child(ren).

        Also, we need to remember that YPT, the G2SS, and a minimum of "2
        deep" in leadership is there to protect US.

        YiS,

        Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
        I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
        Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
        District Committee Member at Large
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