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Arrow of Light Den

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  • ChadCCooper
    Fellow Trainers, What do you all think of the new Cub DL Position Specific training syllabus? Am I correct in understanding that we should now be lumping TDL,
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 10, 2010
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      Fellow Trainers,

      What do you all think of the new Cub DL Position Specific training syllabus?

      Am I correct in understanding that we should now be lumping TDL, DL and WDL into one course and presenting the whole scope of material? Page 4 suggests that the position specific sessions should only include Committee, DL, Cubmaster and Pack Trainer. However, the table of contents and the handouts suggest that TDL/DL/WDL are considered separately trained position. Combining everything into one session will make a fine mess of the training codes. And, boy can I see the poor Tiger DLs eyes glaze over as we answer detailed Webelos uniforming questions.

      I'm really not sure how BSA expects us to structure these breakouts. My strongest inclination is to start patching the materials into complete and separate sessions for each of the three DL positions.

      This looks like another "mostly baked" product from BSA that may have been rushed.

      Also, has anyone else seen BSA refer to the 2nd year Webelos as an Arrow of Light Den as they display on the starter page for the Webelos section of the slides? I checked the new Leader Book and I don't find this terminology used.

      From what I can see, they have gutted the Webelos section of the PS.

      - Chad
      Chief Black Dog, Northern Star Council
      Apple Valley, MN
    • Elaine Ziegler
      What we did last spring was to lump those three together for the common part and then break into the separate TL, DL and WL parts. It worked fine that way.
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 10, 2010
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        What we did last spring was to lump those three together for the
        common part and then break into the separate TL, DL and WL parts. It
        worked fine that way.

        Elaine Ziegler
        Arrowhead District, Greater Al Council


        On Aug 10, 2010, at 9:53 PM, ChadCCooper wrote:

        > Fellow Trainers,
        >
        > What do you all think of the new Cub DL Position Specific training
        > syllabus?
        >
        > Am I correct in understanding that we should now be lumping TDL, DL
        > and WDL into one course and presenting the whole scope of material?
        > Page 4 suggests that the position specific sessions should only
        > include Committee, DL, Cubmaster and Pack Trainer. However, the
        > table of contents and the handouts suggest that TDL/DL/WDL are
        > considered separately trained position. Combining everything into
        > one session will make a fine mess of the training codes. And, boy
        > can I see the poor Tiger DLs eyes glaze over as we answer detailed
        > Webelos uniforming questions.
        >
        > I'm really not sure how BSA expects us to structure these
        > breakouts. My strongest inclination is to start patching the
        > materials into complete and separate sessions for each of the three
        > DL positions.
        >
        > This looks like another "mostly baked" product from BSA that may
        > have been rushed.
        >
        > Also, has anyone else seen BSA refer to the 2nd year Webelos as an
        > Arrow of Light Den as they display on the starter page for the
        > Webelos section of the slides? I checked the new Leader Book and I
        > don't find this terminology used.
        >
        > From what I can see, they have gutted the Webelos section of the PS.
        >
        > - Chad
        > Chief Black Dog, Northern Star Council
        > Apple Valley, MN
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dawn Gent
        The training codes are still separate for the three den leader positions (C41, C42, C61) and leaders do not see the value in staying longer (because you would
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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          The training codes are still separate for the three den leader positions (C41, C42, C61) and leaders do not see the value in staying longer (because you would have to to run all three sections) to get training for something they are not doing (yet or ever).

          So, with this in mind, I will run the "Position Specific" section by first having a group session, then the three (shorter) breakouts in my district. (Returning leaders trained with this material (I.e. the material available since summer 2008) only attend the Position Specific portion to be updated for the new position.)

          Since the goal is to address the needs of the learners, this makes the most sense (IMHO).

          Dawn Gent
          Wilmington, DE

          "It is amazing how much people get done if they do not worry about who gets the credit"
          - Swahili proverb


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G.J.
          Once upon a time, Cub Scout Basic Leader Training was a day long course that covered all leadership positions: TCDL, CSDL, WDL, CM, and CCs. One one had it was
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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            Once upon a time, Cub Scout Basic Leader Training was a day long course that covered all leadership positions: TCDL, CSDL, WDL, CM, and CCs. One one had it was a long day, but on another you got A) training done at one time and B) had an understanding of how all the other leader positions work, and gave you a foundation of knowledge.

            I know of districts that have combined the various DL positions into one session, esp since there are alot of similarities in the levels.

            Haven't seen the new syllabus yet, but with it being online in the (hopefully) near future, we may not be running formal training session. One idea is to use a computer lab we have access to, and have everyone use it at one time with and instructor or two to answer questions.

            Also never heard of AOL den before. maybe it's someone form national who doesn't have a foundation in scouting?
          • Frank Toothaker
            What is an arrow of light den ? ... The training codes are still separate for the three den leader positions (C41, C42, C61) and leaders do not see the value
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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              What is an "arrow of light den"?

              --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Dawn Gent <dlougent@...> wrote:







              The training codes are still separate for the three den leader positions (C41, C42, C61) and leaders do not see the value in staying longer (because you would have to to run all three sections) to get training for something they are not doing (yet or ever).

              So, with this in mind, I will run the "Position Specific" section by first having a group session, then the three (shorter) breakouts in my district. (Returning leaders trained with this material (I.e. the material available since summer 2008) only attend the Position Specific portion to be updated for the new position.)

              Since the goal is to address the needs of the learners, this makes the most sense (IMHO).

              Dawn Gent
              Wilmington, DE





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bert
              An Arrow of Light Den is what was (and perhaps shall continue to be) referred to as a Webelos II Den, and (this is sheer conjecture) perhaps it received
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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                An "Arrow of Light" Den is what was (and perhaps shall continue to be) referred to as a "Webelos II" Den, and (this is sheer conjecture) perhaps it received the re-naming in the new Guide and related material in order to provide "advancement focus" (Web Is work on the Webelos Badge, Web IIs aim for Arrow of Light, so why not name 'em after their Badges like the other 3 ranks).

                All conjecture is local . . .

                Bert Bender
                Pack and District Trainer
                South Fulton District, Atlanta Area Council

                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Frank Toothaker <ftooth@...> wrote:
                >
                > What is an "arrow of light den"?
              • John Halter
                Why not just call them Webelos? Thank you, John Halter Assistant Council Commissioner Central FL Council, B.S.A. http://commissioners.cflscouting.org
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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                  Why not just call them Webelos?

                  Thank you,

                  John Halter
                  Assistant Council Commissioner
                  Central FL Council, B.S.A.
                  http://commissioners.cflscouting.org
                  "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                  (Scoutboard.com is online again!)
                  ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442



                  On 11-Aug-10 09:29 AM, Bert wrote:
                  >
                  > An "Arrow of Light" Den is what was (and perhaps shall continue to be)
                  > referred to as a "Webelos II" Den, and (this is sheer conjecture)
                  > perhaps it received the re-naming in the new Guide and related
                  > material in order to provide "advancement focus" (Web Is work on the
                  > Webelos Badge, Web IIs aim for Arrow of Light, so why not name 'em
                  > after their Badges like the other 3 ranks).
                  >
                  > All conjecture is local . . .
                  >
                  > Bert Bender
                  > Pack and District Trainer
                  > South Fulton District, Atlanta Area Council
                  >
                  > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Frank Toothaker <ftooth@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > What is an "arrow of light den"?
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Wildschuetz
                  I believe the reason was listed in his posting.... A den of 2nd graders working on the Wolf patch is called a Wolf Den.A den of 3rd graders working on the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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                    I believe the reason was listed in his posting....

                    A den of 2nd graders working on the Wolf patch is called a Wolf Den.A den of 3rd
                    graders working on the Bear patch is called a Bear Den.
                     
                    so...
                     
                    Why not call a den of 1st year Webelos a Webelos Den and the 2nd year Webelos
                    den an Arrow of Light Den.

                    David

                     

                    ________________________________
                     
                    Why not just call them Webelos?

                    >
                    > An "Arrow of Light" Den is what was (and perhaps shall continue to be)
                    > referred to as a "Webelos II" Den, and (this is sheer conjecture)
                    > perhaps it received the re-naming in the new Guide and related
                    > material in order to provide "advancement focus" (Web Is work on the
                    > Webelos Badge, Web IIs aim for Arrow of Light, so why not name 'em
                    > after their Badges like the other 3 ranks).
                    >
                    > All conjecture is local . . .
                    >
                    > Bert Bender
                    > Pack and District Trainer
                    > South Fulton District, Atlanta Area Council
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • James
                    Most of thedistricts in our council have been combining these sessions for a while now, and presenting as a single module to train the captive audience. (runs
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 11, 2010
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                      Most of thedistricts in our council have been combining these sessions for a while now, and presenting as a single module to train the captive audience. (runs a little longer to cover all the level specific info.) We give them credit for all three courses, then we don't have to chase them the next year or two to come back for training when they've graduated with their den. Also gives them a little insight into planning for the next stage and some of the leadership position inter-reationships. With mandatory training on the horizon, I think BSAs intent was to train the captive audience.

                      Jim Bradley
                      Council Training Comm.
                      Yankee Clipper Council

                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Ziegler <egziegler@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What we did last spring was to lump those three together for the
                      > common part and then break into the separate TL, DL and WL parts. It
                      > worked fine that way.
                      >
                      > Elaine Ziegler
                      > Arrowhead District, Greater Al Council
                      >
                      >
                      > On Aug 10, 2010, at 9:53 PM, ChadCCooper wrote:
                      >
                      > > Fellow Trainers,
                      > >
                      > > What do you all think of the new Cub DL Position Specific training
                      > > syllabus?
                      > >
                      > > Am I correct in understanding that we should now be lumping TDL, DL
                      > > and WDL into one course and presenting the whole scope of material?
                      > > Page 4 suggests that the position specific sessions should only
                      > > include Committee, DL, Cubmaster and Pack Trainer. However, the
                      > > table of contents and the handouts suggest that TDL/DL/WDL are
                      > > considered separately trained position. Combining everything into
                      > > one session will make a fine mess of the training codes. And, boy
                      > > can I see the poor Tiger DLs eyes glaze over as we answer detailed
                      > > Webelos uniforming questions.
                      > >
                      > > I'm really not sure how BSA expects us to structure these
                      > > breakouts. My strongest inclination is to start patching the
                      > > materials into complete and separate sessions for each of the three
                      > > DL positions.
                      > >
                      > > This looks like another "mostly baked" product from BSA that may
                      > > have been rushed.
                      > >
                      > > Also, has anyone else seen BSA refer to the 2nd year Webelos as an
                      > > Arrow of Light Den as they display on the starter page for the
                      > > Webelos section of the slides? I checked the new Leader Book and I
                      > > don't find this terminology used.
                      > >
                      > > From what I can see, they have gutted the Webelos section of the PS.
                      > >
                      > > - Chad
                      > > Chief Black Dog, Northern Star Council
                      > > Apple Valley, MN
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Judy Yeager
                      ... We found that many people would come to training once, but would not return if they changed positions, i.e. moved from Tiger leader to Den leader, so our
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 12, 2010
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                        On 8/11/2010 6:57 PM, James wrote:
                        >
                        > Most of thedistricts in our council have been combining these sessions
                        > for a while now, and presenting as a single module. . .
                        >

                        We found that many people would come to training once, but would not
                        return if they changed positions, i.e. moved from Tiger leader to Den
                        leader, so our Council adopted a plan several years ago to do two split
                        sessions - den leaders and pack leaders. We also felt that it was
                        important to be considerate of their time and to give them the "big
                        picture" rather than the tunnel vision of only one position. As a
                        result of this change, our pack leaders are appreciative of our respect
                        for their situations, our trained percentage has increased a lot and our
                        retention rates have improved markedly.

                        It has worked well for us, but, as always, your mileage may vary.

                        Judy Yeager


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • corinnajones@hotmail.com
                        Judy, Would it work to run them though the specific portion during roundtable? After getting the idea about Tigers, it would be great to send them off into the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 12, 2010
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                          Judy,
                          Would it work to run them though the specific portion during roundtable?
                          After getting the idea about Tigers, it would be great to send them off into
                          the summer with their DL training, and equipped for their over-the-summer
                          planning. 45 minutes of the specifics to Wolves & Bears (how to count the
                          arrow points, etc.), switching from shared leadership, possibly combining
                          Wolves & Bears for small packs. The same thing would work for Webelos, and
                          would be perfect for a slow or planning roundtable.
                          Training a brand-new leader once as Tiger leader, and then letting them run
                          all the way through Webelos (except the outdoor training) seems like it
                          would make the switch to the next level rockier than it needs to be. Also,
                          if you establish a culture of training, they will hopefully keep it up. 45
                          minutes in a classroom + YPT online shouldn't be too much to ask.
                          Corinna

                          --------------------------------------------------
                          From: "Judy Yeager" <kcjscout@...>
                          Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:07 PM
                          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Arrow of Light Den

                          >
                          >
                          > On 8/11/2010 6:57 PM, James wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Most of thedistricts in our council have been combining these sessions
                          >> for a while now, and presenting as a single module. . .
                          >>
                          >
                          > We found that many people would come to training once, but would not
                          > return if they changed positions, i.e. moved from Tiger leader to Den
                          > leader, so our Council adopted a plan several years ago to do two split
                          > sessions - den leaders and pack leaders. We also felt that it was
                          > important to be considerate of their time and to give them the "big
                          > picture" rather than the tunnel vision of only one position. As a
                          > result of this change, our pack leaders are appreciative of our respect
                          > for their situations, our trained percentage has increased a lot and our
                          > retention rates have improved markedly.
                          >
                          > It has worked well for us, but, as always, your mileage may vary.
                          >
                          > Judy Yeager
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
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