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RE: [Scouter_T] OWL & Baloo

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  • Kent Wolfe
    The only one from a pack required to take BALOO is the pack committee member who is to be responsible for pack camping events. Packs cannot have pack camping
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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      The only one from a pack required to take BALOO is the pack committee member
      who is to be responsible for pack camping events. Packs cannot have pack
      camping events, i.e., involving Bear and younger, unless their is a trained
      BALOO committee person. Webs leaders do not have to take BALOO, although it
      wouldn't be bad if they did.

      OWL is still around this year, but you never know when National will change
      it. Glad to hear you have a demand for this training. We've had about 10 in
      the whole council attend this each year. Too bad for the boys' sake.

      Kent Wolfe
      District and Council Training committees
      Cornhusker Council

      -----Original Message-----
      From: William Hicks [mailto:williamhicks@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:21 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] OWL & Baloo


      How do some of you plan on presenting the now two cub leader campout
      training
      courses?

      Most people I have spoke with believe Baloo is to replace OWL, but I
      confirmed
      with my council training office that is not the case. Baloo is in addition
      to
      OWL. I have leaders begging for more and more OWL training. It is very
      popular! But of course very few will want to take the Baloo training as it
      is
      the "very basics" of camping. I have heard it called "camping 101".

      What do you think about having new leaders take Baloo before they can take
      owl?
      That will get more people in the pack baloo trained, but that is also
      adding
      an extra requirement.

      I am mixed as to how I plan on presenting it to my district. But I have to
      get
      it figured out really fast to get all the arrangments made for effective
      training in September.

      Please bare in mind that I do not have a copy of the Baloo training material
      yet. Hopefully, I will have it next week. So if I am way off, please let
      me
      know.

      Any thoughts out there?


      =====
      William Hicks
      281-476-9404
      Pack 268 CC
      Bayshore District Cub Training Coordinator
      Sam Houston Area Council
      http://www.geocities.com/cubpack268

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    • William Hicks
      Thanks for the input Kent. OWL is alive and well in SHAC. I have about 25 leaders from my district (22 packs total) that I know are willing and waiting for
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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        Thanks for the input Kent. OWL is alive and well in SHAC. I have about 25
        leaders from my district (22 packs total) that I know are willing and waiting
        for the first OWL training this fall. About half are Web leaders. The rest
        are Wolf/Bear DLs. I think tagging it with the "Webelos Leaders" title was a
        mistake as it helps leaders of all ranks who attend. I took it as a Bear
        leader the first time and I loved it.

        You are correct when you stated only one person has to be Baloo trained, but
        that one person has to then attend every campout. And that's not always
        possible. So to keep from having to postpone events or cancel them at the last
        minute, it would help if each pack can get a few different people (CM, ACM,
        DLs, anybody going on the campouts) Baloo trained.

        Thanks agian!

        --- Kent Wolfe <kentw@...> wrote:
        >
        > The only one from a pack required to take BALOO is the pack committee member
        > who is to be responsible for pack camping events. Packs cannot have pack
        > camping events, i.e., involving Bear and younger, unless their is a trained
        > BALOO committee person. Webs leaders do not have to take BALOO, although it
        > wouldn't be bad if they did.
        >
        > OWL is still around this year, but you never know when National will change
        > it. Glad to hear you have a demand for this training. We've had about 10 in
        > the whole council attend this each year. Too bad for the boys' sake.
        >
        > Kent Wolfe
        > District and Council Training committees
        > Cornhusker Council
        >
        >

        =====
        William Hicks
        281-476-9404
        Pack 268 CC
        Bayshore District Cub Training Coordinator
        Sam Houston Area Council
        http://www.geocities.com/cubpack268

        __________________________________________________
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        Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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      • Sean Scott
        William asked: How do some of you plan on presenting the now two cub leader campout training courses? Most people I have spoke with believe Baloo is to replace
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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          William asked: How do some of you plan on presenting the now two cub leader
          campout training courses?

          Most people I have spoke with believe Baloo is to replace OWL, but I
          confirmed with my council training office that is not the case. Baloo is in
          addition to OWL. I have leaders begging for more and more OWL training. It
          is very
          popular! But of course very few will want to take the Baloo training as it
          is the "very basics" of camping. I have heard it called "camping 101".

          What do you think about having new leaders take Baloo before they can take
          owl?

          William,

          BALOO and OWL are two completely different courses, aimed at different
          leaders and teach separate material. I've seen a lot of confusion over the
          two, including a belief that BALOO replaces OWL, which is not the case.
          Let's look at the differences:

          Webelos Leader Outdoor Training is for the Webelos leader running a
          patrol-style campout for a Webelos den. It concentrates on a smaller group
          of older boys participating in an event that is more akin to a troop
          campout. In fact, many times Webelos are camping with a local troop. The
          direction of this event is preparing Webelos scouts for patrol and troop
          camping. This training is taken by the Webelos leader.

          BALOO is aimed at the leader planning a Pack campout, which may include
          Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos Scouts. The emphasis of this training is
          on preparing the leader to plan and conduct a quality, safe, enjoyable
          camping experience for all ages in the pack. It is intended for any leader
          in the pack, preferably one that isn't filling another function already,
          though.

          Having run BALOO in March, I would hardly call it "Camping 101". While it
          does have a segment on understanding and selecting equipment, this is a
          small part of the overall event. Also included are cooking skills, campfire
          planning, event planning, health and safety, games, outdoor activities, flag
          ceremonies, Scouts' Own, and advancement. Billing your BALOO as basic
          camping is going to give your leaders the impression that, if they already
          know how to camp, they don't really need it (other than to fulfill the
          training requirement)!

          My experience has been that most packs run poor campouts--they show up,
          pitch tents, and let the boys run around. There is little structure or
          planned activity prepared for the boys to participate in, and they soon
          become bored and ultimately won't want to go camping anymore.

          BALOO prepares leaders to run a structured event that adheres to the methods
          of Cub Scouting, and gives boys an enjoyable taste of the outdoors that
          makes them want to come back.

          Check the files area of this list for some resources for your training. It
          was a lot of fun to present when we did it, though we modified the schedule
          extensively. BTW, Scouter magazine was incorrect in stating this was a
          six-hour training--the syllabus calls for eight, and we finished up right at
          eight hours with ours, running at a comfortable pace. Without omitting the
          campfire and combining lunch with another session, I don't see how you could
          reasonably do it in less time.

          YiS,
          Sean
          --
          Sean Scott
          Cub Roundtable Commissioner
          Training Chairman
          Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

          WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."
        • William Hicks
          Thanks for the fast reply Sean. It sounds like BALOO is a lot more than what was explained to me. I will hit the files tonight and see what I can get done.
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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            Thanks for the fast reply Sean. It sounds like BALOO is a lot more than what
            was explained to me. I will hit the files tonight and see what I can get done.

            Thanks agian!!

            YIS


            --- Sean Scott <sscott@...> wrote:
            > BALOO and OWL are two completely different courses, aimed at different
            > leaders and teach separate material. I've seen a lot of confusion over the
            > two, including a belief that BALOO replaces OWL, which is not the case.
            > Let's look at the differences:
            >
            > Webelos Leader Outdoor Training is for the Webelos leader running a
            > patrol-style campout for a Webelos den. It concentrates on a smaller group
            > of older boys participating in an event that is more akin to a troop
            > campout. In fact, many times Webelos are camping with a local troop. The
            > direction of this event is preparing Webelos scouts for patrol and troop
            > camping. This training is taken by the Webelos leader.
            >
            > BALOO is aimed at the leader planning a Pack campout, which may include
            > Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos Scouts. The emphasis of this training is
            > on preparing the leader to plan and conduct a quality, safe, enjoyable
            > camping experience for all ages in the pack. It is intended for any leader
            > in the pack, preferably one that isn't filling another function already,
            > though.
            >
            > Having run BALOO in March, I would hardly call it "Camping 101". While it
            > does have a segment on understanding and selecting equipment, this is a
            > small part of the overall event. Also included are cooking skills, campfire
            > planning, event planning, health and safety, games, outdoor activities, flag
            > ceremonies, Scouts' Own, and advancement. Billing your BALOO as basic
            > camping is going to give your leaders the impression that, if they already
            > know how to camp, they don't really need it (other than to fulfill the
            > training requirement)!
            >
            > My experience has been that most packs run poor campouts--they show up,
            > pitch tents, and let the boys run around. There is little structure or
            > planned activity prepared for the boys to participate in, and they soon
            > become bored and ultimately won't want to go camping anymore.
            >
            > BALOO prepares leaders to run a structured event that adheres to the methods
            > of Cub Scouting, and gives boys an enjoyable taste of the outdoors that
            > makes them want to come back.
            >
            > Check the files area of this list for some resources for your training. It
            > was a lot of fun to present when we did it, though we modified the schedule
            > extensively. BTW, Scouter magazine was incorrect in stating this was a
            > six-hour training--the syllabus calls for eight, and we finished up right at
            > eight hours with ours, running at a comfortable pace. Without omitting the
            > campfire and combining lunch with another session, I don't see how you could
            > reasonably do it in less time.
            >
            > YiS,
            > Sean
            > --
            > Sean Scott
            > Cub Roundtable Commissioner
            > Training Chairman
            > Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District
            >
            > WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."
            >
            >


            =====
            William Hicks
            281-476-9404
            Pack 268 CC
            Bayshore District Cub Training Coordinator
            Sam Houston Area Council
            http://www.geocities.com/cubpack268

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
            http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
          • Sean Scott
            You are correct when you stated only one person has to be Baloo trained, but that one person has to then attend every campout. And that s not always possible.
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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              You are correct when you stated only one person has to be Baloo trained, but
              that one person has to then attend every campout. And that's not always
              possible. So to keep from having to postpone events or cancel them at the
              last minute, it would help if each pack can get a few different people (CM,
              ACM, DLs, anybody going on the campouts) Baloo trained.
              -----
              Actually, I believe that it's only the person that *plans* the campout that
              must be BALOO trained--I don't think there is a specific requirement that
              they attend the actual campout itself. Still, it's a good idea to have more
              than one person trained. Of course, I may be wrong....

              Sean
              --
              Sean Scott
              Cub Roundtable Commissioner
              Training Chairman
              Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

              WM-45-2-00 - "I used to be a Buffalo..."
            • Lloyd Solis
              ... Outdoor Leadership Fundamentals is the course for BSA leaders. It s primarily designed for Troop leaders but comes highly recommended for Cub and Venturing
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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                William Hicks wrote:

                > How do some of you plan on presenting the now two cub leader campout training
                > courses?
                >
                > Most people I have spoke with believe Baloo is to replace OWL, but I confirmed
                > with my council training office that is not the case. Baloo is in addition to
                > OWL. I have leaders begging for more and more OWL training. It is very
                > popular! But of course very few will want to take the Baloo training as it is
                > the "very basics" of camping. I have heard it called "camping 101".

                Outdoor Leadership Fundamentals is the course for BSA leaders. It's primarily
                designed for Troop leaders but comes highly recommended for Cub and Venturing
                leaders. BALOO is a 'day' program and a requirement for a pack to be permitted to
                camp. It is not part of an overnignt experience and should not be combined with any
                other training programs.

                >
                >
                > What do you think about having new leaders take Baloo before they can take owl?
                > That will get more people in the pack baloo trained, but that is also adding
                > an extra requirement.

                It makes sense to take BALOO before either of the 'camping overnight' training
                courses.

                >
                >
                > I am mixed as to how I plan on presenting it to my district. But I have to get
                > it figured out really fast to get all the arrangments made for effective
                > training in September.
                >
                > Please bare in mind that I do not have a copy of the Baloo training material
                > yet. Hopefully, I will have it next week. So if I am way off, please let me
                > know.
                >
                > Any thoughts out there?

                From what I've read on this and other lists, have a well developed and organized
                staff to present BALOO. I understand it is quite intensive, fast moving, requiring
                lots of coordination between the staff members. We won't be doing our first one
                for probably a couple of months. The program looks really good, especially the
                'massive' INDEX set that can be copied for participants - a real work of art.
                Lloyd

                >
                >
                > =====
                > William Hicks
                > 281-476-9404
                > Pack 268 CC
                > Bayshore District Cub Training Coordinator
                > Sam Houston Area Council
                > http://www.geocities.com/cubpack268
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                >
                >
                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jon T. Patten
                At least here in the Pine Tree Council (Maine) where there is mandatory leader training, BALOO is required before one can take their unit camping. The target
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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                  At least here in the Pine Tree Council (Maine) where there is
                  mandatory leader training, BALOO is required before one can take
                  their unit camping. The target audience for the Cub Scouts side
                  is Cub Scout Den Leaders, Cubmaster and Assistant Cubmasters. For
                  us this requirement starts September 1st of this year. The trained
                  leader has to be at the camp outs.

                  Jon Patten
                  Cubmaster Pack 74
                  Training Team Member - Casco Bay District


                  Sean Scott wrote:
                  >
                  > You are correct when you stated only one person has to be Baloo
                  > trained, but
                  > that one person has to then attend every campout. And that's not
                  > always
                  > possible. So to keep from having to postpone events or cancel them at
                  > the
                  > last minute, it would help if each pack can get a few different people
                  > (CM,
                  > ACM, DLs, anybody going on the campouts) Baloo trained.
                  > -----
                  > Actually, I believe that it's only the person that *plans* the campout
                  > that
                  > must be BALOO trained--I don't think there is a specific requirement
                  > that
                  > they attend the actual campout itself. Still, it's a good idea to have
                  > more
                  > than one person trained. Of course, I may be wrong....
                  >
                  > Sean
                  > --
                  > Sean Scott
                  > Cub Roundtable Commissioner
                  > Training Chairman
                  > Day Camp Director, Tahquitz District

                  some snipped.
                • Peter J Murray
                  Hey All, From my understanding, OWLT (Outdoor WEBELOS Leader Training) was changed to OLT a few years back, to make sure the Wolf and Bear Leaders were
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                    Hey All,

                    From my understanding, OWLT (Outdoor WEBELOS Leader Training) was
                    changed to OLT a few years back, to make sure the Wolf and Bear Leaders were
                    included. It seems that they were waiting until they were a WEBELOS Den
                    Leader to take the class, and by then it was really too late for some to
                    really benefit for the boys.

                    Several years ago, in an effort to "spice up" OLT, we nicknamed our
                    OLT "Camp Baloo" and then really made an effort to energize it with fun and
                    songs. Our classes went from 10 or so to thirty or more, with people coming
                    from other districts to join us. The biggest modification of the syllabus
                    was in the cooking portion, where we added four classes, which were
                    presented at breakfast, lunch, dinner and Sunday breakfast. This way they
                    got hands on basic instruction in how to cook out of doors. If you want the
                    menus, just holler. I have them on an excel spreadsheet.

                    Even with the addition of "Baloo", we still refer to our OLT as
                    "Camp Baloo" and that works out well. The participants see the former as the
                    book learning, and the latter as the practical experience. Best of all, it
                    appears to be a more integrated approach, and they see one as the
                    progression of the other. Without "WEBELOS" as part of the name, it is also
                    seen as open to all... including Tiger moms and dads!

                    "Fla-Bob" Pete Murray (The Florida Bobwhite)
                    Dad
                    Troop 7 Assistant Scoutmaster
                    Wekiwa District Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner (www.wekiwa.org)
                    Central Fl Council Asst Commissioner in charge of Boy Scout
                    Roundtables
                  • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                    ... * Not true, the trained person is supposed to be involved in the organization/planning of the campout to ensure that it will be a success, he/she does not
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                      > ----------
                      > From: William Hicks
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks for the input Kent.
                      >
                      > You are correct when you stated only one person has to be Baloo trained,
                      > but
                      > that one person has to then attend every campout*. And that's not always
                      > possible. So to keep from having to postpone events or cancel them at the
                      > last
                      > minute, it would help if each pack can get a few different people (CM,
                      > ACM,
                      > DLs, anybody going on the campouts) Baloo trained.
                      >
                      * Not true, the trained person is supposed to be involved in the
                      organization/planning of the campout to ensure that it will be a
                      success, he/she does not necessarily have to attend.

                      Pete Mullaney
                    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSTA-AR-WES]
                      The one thing missing from the paragraph below is siblings. My Pack s summertime camping is FAMILY Camping and siblings must be included in the planning
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                        The one thing missing from the paragraph below is siblings. My
                        Pack's summertime camping is FAMILY Camping and siblings must be
                        included in the planning stage. I've done the 'Planning' segment
                        for two courses and I like to emphasize the importance of a well
                        developed (and flexible) plan.

                        my $0.03,
                        Pete Mullaney

                        > ----------
                        > From: William Hicks
                        >
                        > Thanks for the fast reply Sean. It sounds like BALOO is a lot more than
                        > what
                        > was explained to me. I will hit the files tonight and see what I can get
                        > done.
                        >
                        > Thanks agian!!
                        >
                        > YIS
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > BALOO is aimed at the leader planning a Pack campout, which may include
                        > > Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos Scouts. The emphasis of this training
                        > is
                        > > on preparing the leader to plan and conduct a quality, safe, enjoyable
                        > > camping experience for all ages in the pack. It is intended for any
                        > leader
                        > > in the pack, preferably one that isn't filling another function already,
                        > > though.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Lloyd Solis
                        ... WOW! This seems like the perfect mix to have a new BALOO training scheduled and then offer the supplemental CAMP BALOO to immediately follow - since BALOO
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                          Peter J Murray wrote:

                          > Hey All,
                          >
                          > From my understanding, OWLT (Outdoor WEBELOS Leader Training) was
                          > changed to OLT a few years back, to make sure the Wolf and Bear Leaders were
                          > included. It seems that they were waiting until they were a WEBELOS Den
                          > Leader to take the class, and by then it was really too late for some to
                          > really benefit for the boys.
                          >
                          > Several years ago, in an effort to "spice up" OLT, we nicknamed our
                          > OLT "Camp Baloo" and then really made an effort to energize it with fun and
                          > songs. Our classes went from 10 or so to thirty or more, with people coming
                          > from other districts to join us. The biggest modification of the syllabus
                          > was in the cooking portion, where we added four classes, which were
                          > presented at breakfast, lunch, dinner and Sunday breakfast. This way they
                          > got hands on basic instruction in how to cook out of doors. If you want the
                          > menus, just holler. I have them on an excel spreadsheet.
                          >
                          > Even with the addition of "Baloo", we still refer to our OLT as
                          > "Camp Baloo" and that works out well. The participants see the former as the
                          > book learning, and the latter as the practical experience. Best of all, it
                          > appears to be a more integrated approach, and they see one as the
                          > progression of the other. Without "WEBELOS" as part of the name, it is also
                          > seen as open to all... including Tiger moms and dads!
                          >
                          > "Fla-Bob" Pete Murray (The Florida Bobwhite)
                          > Dad
                          > Troop 7 Assistant Scoutmaster
                          > Wekiwa District Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner (www.wekiwa.org)
                          > Central Fl Council Asst Commissioner in charge of Boy Scout
                          > Roundtables

                          WOW! This seems like the perfect mix to have a new BALOO training scheduled and
                          then offer the supplemental CAMP BALOO to immediately follow - since BALOO is a
                          stand-alone designated program. I think that if you can run BALOO at camp rather
                          than 'at home' you might just get commitments to 'spend the rest of the weekend'
                          and take "Camp Baloo". The only missing item might be the 'second breakfast'; a
                          cracker barrel could easily replace that - adding that extra touch. The dinner
                          could come on the Saturday night instead of the Sunday evening. That would allow
                          'breaking camp' earlier on Sunday.
                          I've thought, since buying BALOO, last December that the program is really
                          incomplete. Sure, it does what it says it will. It gives the basics for
                          'preparing a camping trip'.
                          What it doesn't do is give a practical application of planning the entire first
                          campout. You don't spend the night out of doors and in a tent. Lots of things
                          happen after dark. For those camping for the first time, waking up with water in
                          your tent or dead branches between you and your tent mate (or across both of
                          you) can be as real an eye-opener as frantically searching for a lost boy in the
                          middle of the night. That first night 'under the stars' can be as traumatic for
                          a first time adult as it is for a first time youth. We need the adults
                          experienced overnight campers before adding the responsibilities of youth
                          safety. Camp Baloo, WOLT, Outdoor Leader Skills all would accomplish that.
                          Do you have a syllabus of your Camp Baloo available to the list?

                          YiS
                          Lloyd
                        • Wendell Brown
                          A new 4 page color brochure describing the New Leader Training program is now in the files area of Scouter_T. This brochure contains information like: What
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                            A new 4 page color brochure describing the New Leader Training program
                            is now in the files area of Scouter_T. This brochure contains
                            information like:

                            What Makes a Trained Leader?
                            How Long Will Training Sessions Last?
                            Benefits of New Leader Essentials
                            Description of each new course (BALOO is not mentioned)

                            The file name is NewLeaderTraining.pdf and is in the main file area.

                            Wendell Brown - Quapaw Area Council Cub Camping Chairman
                            Scouting The Net - http://www.arkie.net/scouting/
                            Scouter_T E-Mail List - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scouter_t/
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