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Re: [Scouter_T] Trainer's E.D.G.E.

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  • gottshalld@aol.com
    Richard, I have staffed the first Trainer s EDGE in our council and I agree with most of Teresa s comments. The course does move right along. Pre-course
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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      Richard,

      I have staffed the first Trainer's EDGE in our council and I agree with most of Teresa's comments. The course does move right along.

      Pre-course communication is required with the participants in the form of a letter from the CD.

      If participants have taken Train the Trainer previously, most commented that their was a lack of depth and detail regarding presentation styles or technique that are presented in painful detail in TtT.

      The one other thing that is critical is that you close registration out far enough in advance to allow for preparation of? participant presentations.? A whole last module deals with participant presentations that were prepared prior to arrival.? So, participants need lead time to do their "homework."

      Needless to say, there can be no walk-ins.

      Dave Gottshall
      Boston Minuteman Council




      _,_._,___













      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bljohnson95901@comcast.net
      I attended the first one our council put on. The  trainers included 2 of the ones who were in Philmont last fall participating in creating the final version.
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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        I attended the first one our council put on. The  trainers included 2 of the ones who were in Philmont last fall participating in creating the final version. We had most of our NYLT staff there and some of the WB staff. I think the WB group had their eyes opened by the presentations from the youth staff. I heard nothing negative and a lot positive. We did the training late in the staff development so the presentations that were supposed to be part of the staff development course presentations were more i mpromtu than we had planned to avoid redundency.



        We're hearing this will replace TDC in the future, but if that's the case, you would need to keep the WB/NYLT group separate.


        Bruce Johnson





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...>
        To: "scouter t" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 5:26:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Trainer's E.D.G.E.








        Hi Trainers,

        http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/26-242.pdf

        Does anyone out there have experience with the new Trainer's E.D.G.E.?

        How do you like it? Is it well received by participants? Are the NYLT and Wood Badge staff members actually taking the course?

        A good topic for discussion amongst trainers.

        Yours Truly in Scouting,
        Rick




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Donna F. Williams
        It sounds like Trainers Development Training should still be offered for new trainers and the Trainer s EDGE is for advanced trainers. I thought Trainers Edge
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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          It sounds like Trainers Development Training should still be offered for new
          trainers and the Trainer's EDGE is for advanced trainers. I thought
          Trainers Edge was replacing Trainer Development but I guess not since the
          basics are not being covered in Edge. The only thing I see that was missing
          was how to be a Pack or Troop Trainer specifically; i.e. How to put together
          a training book for your Pack/Troop, doing paperwork, required courses for
          new leaders, etc. They have the new breakout with Cub Leader Specific
          Training for Pack Trainers but because of low attendance, they keep
          combining them into Committee breakout section! Nothing for Troop Trainers
          unfortunately.







          Donna F. Williams

          Gulf Ridge Trainer




          <http://quartermasterstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Co
          de=PC-T6&Category_Code=WB-6-Bear> Bear Patch"Ma Ma Bear".... SR 953



          11315 McMullen Loop

          Riverview, FL 33569



          williamsdfw@...

          813-671-4173





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steven Powell
          Rick, et al Since Doc Marshall and I are in the same council (Longs Peak) I want to echo his response. We had a very large group which is typical for a new
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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            Rick, et al



            Since Doc Marshall and I are in the same council (Longs Peak) I want to echo
            his response. We had a very large group which is typical for a "new"
            training. As the Wood Badge Course Director I can tell you it was
            beneficial for our staff and myself included. The entire WB staff attended
            as did most of the NYLT folks and we had quite a few folks from surrounding
            councils (WB folks primarily) attend as well. All the Course Evals were
            very informative and helpful.and POSITIVE! The training was put on by a
            group of competent trainers. It was fun and fast moving.



            If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of their
            course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the
            folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's
            worth.



            Steve

            CD, WE5-62-09



            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Richard C. Pushies
            Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:27 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Trainer's E.D.G.E.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Richard C. Pushies
            ... Hi Steve, Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your nickel s worth on not having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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              > If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of their course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's worth."

              Hi Steve,

              Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your "nickel's worth" on not having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the Trainer's EDGE, do feel the same holds true for NYLT staff?

              This is a critical question because unlike adult Wood Badge staff who often have more experience as trainers, NYLT staff are more likely to be new to making presentation in front of a group. Then there is the social dynamics of teenagers making presentations to teenage participants who could be older than the staff member. Because of these aspects unique to NYLT staff development, I would hope your advice for the NYLT staff would be different. I look forward to your thoughts.

              Yours Truly in Scouting,
              Rick
            • Steven Powell
              No, Rick, I don t. I think, if anything, the NYLT presentations would be good to share especially in this group. There may well be future staffers in the
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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                No, Rick, I don't. I think, if anything, the NYLT presentations would be
                good to share especially in this group. There may well be future staffers
                in the room and as we all know it has been easier to garner WB staff than
                NYLT staff. If folks knew the quality of the NYLT syllabus perhaps they
                might be prompted to volunteer for staff positions. Additionally,
                experienced WB staff could certainly help new NYLT staffers and what better
                material to critique than the material you are going to present.



                Steve



                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Richard C. Pushies
                Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:15 PM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.



                > If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of their
                course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the
                folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's
                worth."

                Hi Steve,

                Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your "nickel's worth" on not
                having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the Trainer's
                EDGE, do feel the same holds true for NYLT staff?

                ,___



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Teresa Hall
                Interesting. As I noted earlier I have done this twice, once mostly WB staff with about 6 NYLT senior youth staffers, then again with the rest of the NYLT
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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                  Interesting. As I noted earlier I have done this twice, once mostly WB staff
                  with about 6 NYLT senior youth staffers, then again with the rest of the
                  NYLT staff and a smaller group of adults.

                  The WB staff session, all were told to pull together a new presentation. I
                  felt that presentation development should be part of the training for any
                  trainer. But for the most NYLT session, the Scoutmaster asked if I would
                  allow them to give their staff presentations if they wanted, as he felt the
                  practice would be helpful. Some of them did, some did not - but I think it
                  was very beneficial to the ones that did. And never having seen NYLT, I
                  enjoyed it!

                  Donna, I found your comments spot on about training administration being
                  missing in TE. However, it wasn't in TDC either. Our council had a session
                  we developed and put on during TDC lunch for this purpose, but it wasn't
                  part of the TDC syllabus. We haven't integrated it into TE yet.

                  Teresa Hall

                  On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Steven Powell
                  <foxscouter@...>wrote:

                  > No, Rick, I don't. I think, if anything, the NYLT presentations would be
                  > good to share especially in this group. There may well be future staffers
                  > in the room and as we all know it has been easier to garner WB staff than
                  > NYLT staff. If folks knew the quality of the NYLT syllabus perhaps they
                  > might be prompted to volunteer for staff positions. Additionally,
                  > experienced WB staff could certainly help new NYLT staffers and what better
                  > material to critique than the material you are going to present.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf
                  > Of Richard C. Pushies
                  > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:15 PM
                  > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of
                  > their
                  > course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the
                  > folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's
                  > worth."
                  >
                  > Hi Steve,
                  >
                  > Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your "nickel's worth" on not
                  > having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the Trainer's
                  > EDGE, do feel the same holds true for NYLT staff?
                  >
                  > ,___
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Steven Powell
                  I would be interested in more explanations for training administration as both you and Donna are referring to. First, for the sake of discussion, there is a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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                    I would be interested in more explanations for "training administration" as
                    both you and Donna are referring to. First, for the sake of discussion,
                    there is a great deal on administering the Trainer's Development Conference.
                    You need only look in the beginning pages and there's section after section
                    on how to "administer" that training. Second, the purpose of TDC is to help
                    develop the trainer, not the training. The purpose of Trainer's EDGE is to
                    advance the "basics" of trainer development learned at TDC by focusing on
                    the actual creation and delivery of information through training in the Boy
                    Scouts of America. Third, perhaps the most important elements of the Pack
                    Trainer position, for example, is Fast Start training, encouraging new
                    leaders to attend Leader Specific training (and providing a district
                    training calendar) and maintaining the pack's training records. This is all
                    explained in the Cub Scout Leader "position specific" Training.



                    So, all this begs the question "why should the focus of developing the
                    trainer be diverted to administration of training"? Especially when there
                    are additional courses or resources that addresses this and, again, another
                    example would be the Training Management Seminar at the Philmont Training
                    Center (PTC)? Now, if you are referring to "how to fill out a Tour Permit
                    or Advancement form" that is all covered in both CS and BS Leader Specific
                    training.



                    Seeking to understand before I attempt to be understood.



                    Steve



                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Teresa Hall
                    Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:57 PM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.


                    Donna, I found your comments spot on about training administration being
                    missing in TE. However, it wasn't in TDC either. Our council had a session
                    we developed and put on during TDC lunch for this purpose, but it wasn't
                    part of the TDC syllabus. We haven't integrated it into TE yet.

                    Teresa Hall

                    On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Steven Powell
                    <foxscouter@... <mailto:foxscouter%40lpbroadband.net> >wrote:

                    > No, Rick, I don't. I think, if anything, the NYLT presentations would be
                    > good to share especially in this group. There may well be future staffers
                    > in the room and as we all know it has been easier to garner WB staff than
                    > NYLT staff. If folks knew the quality of the NYLT syllabus perhaps they
                    > might be prompted to volunteer for staff positions. Additionally,
                    > experienced WB staff could certainly help new NYLT staffers and what
                    better
                    > material to critique than the material you are going to present.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                    > Behalf
                    > Of Richard C. Pushies
                    > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:15 PM
                    > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of
                    > their
                    > course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the
                    > folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's
                    > worth."
                    >
                    > Hi Steve,
                    >
                    > Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your "nickel's worth" on not
                    > having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the Trainer's
                    > EDGE, do feel the same holds true for NYLT staff?
                    >
                    > ,___
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Teresa Hall
                    Steven,where we were coming from was that if this participant was going to be a trainer, they needed to be introduced to a Training Attendance Report, for
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 9, 2009
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                      Steven,where we were coming from was that if this participant was going to
                      be a trainer, they needed to be introduced to a Training Attendance Report,
                      for example, and the procedures our Council uses for getting permission to
                      offer an event, getting the training event on the calendar, budget approved
                      and closed out, and so forth. What training opportunities require Council
                      approval, and what does the District have the authority to offer?

                      Perhaps you give out the TDC syllabus to the participants - we did not. So
                      the information in the beginning on putting on a TDC was neither accessible
                      them, nor really what we had in mind. Some of it was in the District
                      Training Committee Manual, but many of these folks were not on that
                      committee nor did they aspire to be.

                      I completely agree that TDC focused on developing the trainer, not the
                      training. But where exactly was person who took TDC to enhance their
                      ability to offer, for example, Chartered Organization Rep training, going to
                      find out the policies and procedures that were needed to do what they wanted
                      to do? They left knowing how to do a good job presenting the material, I
                      hope, but they still could not correctly implement the event. What was
                      happening with us was that almost everyone picked up the phone and asked to
                      get this information taught to them one-on-one.

                      We found it to be a very helpful addition. Even trainers who only expected
                      to be part of a larger staff said they appreciated understanding how traning
                      was supposed to be administered.

                      Your mileage may vary! As an alternative we considered offering something
                      like Course Director's Training at University of Scouting, but felt like too
                      many of the people who would want to take it would actually be teaching or
                      involved in UofS administration activities at any given time.

                      Teresa Hall


                      On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Steven Powell
                      <foxscouter@...>wrote:

                      > I would be interested in more explanations for "training administration" as
                      > both you and Donna are referring to. First, for the sake of discussion,
                      > there is a great deal on administering the Trainer's Development
                      > Conference.
                      > You need only look in the beginning pages and there's section after section
                      > on how to "administer" that training. Second, the purpose of TDC is to
                      > help
                      > develop the trainer, not the training. The purpose of Trainer's EDGE is to
                      > advance the "basics" of trainer development learned at TDC by focusing on
                      > the actual creation and delivery of information through training in the Boy
                      > Scouts of America. Third, perhaps the most important elements of the Pack
                      > Trainer position, for example, is Fast Start training, encouraging new
                      > leaders to attend Leader Specific training (and providing a district
                      > training calendar) and maintaining the pack's training records. This is
                      > all
                      > explained in the Cub Scout Leader "position specific" Training.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > So, all this begs the question "why should the focus of developing the
                      > trainer be diverted to administration of training"? Especially when there
                      > are additional courses or resources that addresses this and, again, another
                      > example would be the Training Management Seminar at the Philmont Training
                      > Center (PTC)? Now, if you are referring to "how to fill out a Tour Permit
                      > or Advancement form" that is all covered in both CS and BS Leader Specific
                      > training.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Seeking to understand before I attempt to be understood.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf
                      > Of Teresa Hall
                      > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:57 PM
                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.
                      >
                      >
                      > Donna, I found your comments spot on about training administration being
                      > missing in TE. However, it wasn't in TDC either. Our council had a session
                      > we developed and put on during TDC lunch for this purpose, but it wasn't
                      > part of the TDC syllabus. We haven't integrated it into TE yet.
                      >
                      > Teresa Hall
                      >
                      > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Steven Powell
                      > <foxscouter@... <mailto:foxscouter%40lpbroadband.net<foxscouter%2540lpbroadband.net>>
                      > >wrote:
                      >
                      > > No, Rick, I don't. I think, if anything, the NYLT presentations would be
                      > > good to share especially in this group. There may well be future staffers
                      > > in the room and as we all know it has been easier to garner WB staff than
                      > > NYLT staff. If folks knew the quality of the NYLT syllabus perhaps they
                      > > might be prompted to volunteer for staff positions. Additionally,
                      > > experienced WB staff could certainly help new NYLT staffers and what
                      > better
                      > > material to critique than the material you are going to present.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Steve
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com<scouter_t%2540yahoogroups.com>
                      > >
                      > [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com<scouter_t%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                      > ] On
                      > > Behalf
                      > > Of Richard C. Pushies
                      > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:15 PM
                      > > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com<scouter_t%2540yahoogroups.com>
                      > >
                      > > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Trainer's E.D.G.E.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > If there was a criticism I would say "do not let WB staff use any of
                      > > their
                      > > course presentations" as part of the TE presentation module. Many of the
                      > > folks in attendance have not gone through Wood Badge. That's my nickel's
                      > > worth."
                      > >
                      > > Hi Steve,
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for the input. A question, in light of your "nickel's worth" on
                      > not
                      > > having Wood Badge staff use their WB presentations during the Trainer's
                      > > EDGE, do feel the same holds true for NYLT staff?
                      > >
                      > > ,___
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t-help%40yahoogroups.com<scouter_t-help%2540yahoogroups.com>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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