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Re: [Scouter_T] The legacy of Scouting is leadership

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  • gottshalld@aol.com
    Rick, Real leadership dies back in 1972. Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps. All references to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 29, 2009
      Rick,

      Real leadership dies back in 1972.

      Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps.

      All references to leadership before 1972 was a by-product of effective use of the patrol method.

      Patrols elected leaders.? Patrol members learned leadership by direct observation and participation as part of an engaged patrol member, not by attending some management class with contrived examples.

      I can only hope that patrol management is a short-lived legacy.

      Dave Gottshall




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Rick Rambo <rickram@...>
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 9:36 pm
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] The legacy of Scouting is leadership































      According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership!



      SOOOOOOooooo,



      Does anyone have an opinion regarding the overwhelming difference of opinion

      between those who took the poll and the "correct" answer?



      I, too agree that Leadership is a lasting legacy of Scouting. I see this in

      my own life and others who have been involved with Scouting - that they are

      often times the default choices for leaders in various situations.



      However, I believe that Character is a necessary component of true

      leadership. I am sure you have seen people that have been placed in a

      leadership role, but lack Character. More often than not, they end up

      ultimately failing in their attempt at Leadership.



      Just my two cents, looking forward to reading others'.



      Rick Rambo



      Bunches of trainings and Wood Badges



      Currently RT Commissioner



      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination,

      or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and

      evidence." -John Adams



      "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.

      Liberty is a well-armed lamb." Benjamin Franklin



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Richard C. Pushies
      Hi Dave, Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do not understand your perspective, but I appreciate that you took the time to share. You wrote, Real
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
        Hi Dave,

        Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do not understand your perspective, but I appreciate that you took the time to share.

        You wrote, "Real leadership dies back in 1972." What? I do not understand this comment, please explain. What do you characterize as "real leadership" in this statrment? Do we now have unreal leadership in Scouting?

        You wrote, "Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps." Yet Lord Baden-Powell is quoted as saying "Every boy deserves a trained leader." Leaders provide leadership in my book. The Boy Scouts of America included leadership as one of the 8 methods of Scouting for a reason. You seem to believe that was a mistake, is that correct?

        Teaching effective leadership skills to Scouts increases their ability to be good leaders.

        You wrote, "Patrols elected leaders.?" It is my understanding that the election of patrol leaders still takes place at the troop level. When I first became a Scoutmaster in 1980 my Scouts elected patrol leaders and they are electing patrol leaders in my grandson's troop today. What is your point?

        You wrote, "Patrol members learned leadership by direct observation and participation as part of an engaged patrol member, . . ." Observing the example of a good patrol leader is still a valid way to learn. But, what if the current patrol leader is a terrible leader? Does the observed poor performance of a patrol leader then become the standard of leadership for all the patrol members? Teaching first aid in this manner would not be very effective, would it?

        ". . ., not by attending some management class with contrived examples." Your definition of managment and mine must differ. I was taught that you manage things and lead people. Please share your definition of the terms management and leadership because I do not understand your position. "Contrived examples" is an interesting choice of words. Please provide an explanation of what you mean.

        You wrote,"I can only hope that patrol management is a short-lived legacy." Well, it appears that the Boy Scouts of America sees things differently than you as they have defined leadership as the legacy of Scouting. I agree with the Boy Scouts of America and do not understand your perspective at all. I hope the legacy of leadership in Scouting endures for another hundred years!

        My favorite quotation on leadership comes from Napolean and he said, "A leaders is a dealer in hope." What say you?

        Yours Truly in Scouting,
        Rick Pushies
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