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Fee Increase?

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  • Michael
    Maybe I am behind on my reading... I just recieved this from our council office: Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase The BSA Executive Board
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
      Maybe I am behind on my reading...

      I just recieved this from our council office:

      Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase

      The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1, 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The Exploring fee remains $10.


      A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a period of at least three years.
    • Brant Lippincott
      We just got the same message on our local yahoo groups lists... Brant ... From: Michael To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
        We just got the same message on our local yahoo groups lists...

        Brant



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Michael <the_sandells@...>
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:44:48 AM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?

        Maybe I am behind on my reading...

        I just recieved this from our council office:

        Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase

        The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1, 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The Exploring fee remains $10.


        A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a period of at least three years.





        ------------------------------------

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      • gottshalld@aol.com
        I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase. So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15. I would say that this is slightly higher that the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
          I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.

          So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.

          I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and well ahead of most families increase in disposable income.

          ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't even start.

          Dave Gottshall




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Michael <the_sandells@...>
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?































          Maybe I am behind on my reading...



          I just recieved this from our council office:



          Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase



          The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1, 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The Exploring fee remains $10.



          A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a period of at least three years.


























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ray Scott
          It doesn t seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay my fees as well. It s a matter of deciding what s important. Ray Scott _____ From:
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
            It doesn't seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay
            my fees as well. It's a matter of deciding what's important.



            Ray Scott

            _____

            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of gottshalld@...
            Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:36 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com; scouts-l@...
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?











            I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.

            So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.

            I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and well
            ahead of most families increase in disposable income.

            ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't
            even start.

            Dave Gottshall

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Michael <the_sandells@ <mailto:the_sandells%40comcast.net>
            comcast.net>
            To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
            Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?

            Maybe I am behind on my reading...

            I just recieved this from our council office:

            Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase

            The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business
            meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee
            for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1,
            2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The
            Exploring fee remains $10.

            A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both
            the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National
            Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to
            the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council
            support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the
            cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as
            the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff
            and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these
            considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the
            fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a
            period of at least three years.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gottshalld@aol.com
            Ray, Transportation is important.? If your car in 2002 cost $12K and in 2009 the same car cost $26K, what choice would you make?? You would look into other
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
              Ray,

              Transportation is important.? If your car in 2002 cost $12K and in 2009 the same car cost $26K, what choice would you make?? You would look into other options.

              The BSA does not need another barrier to membership, either new or continued.

              Dave Gottshall
            • corinnajones@hotmail.com
              The issue is really not the leaders children, but those boys whose parents couldn t care less or are on the fence. There are lots of those, and I would hate
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
                The issue is really not the leaders' children, but those boys whose parents
                couldn't care less or are on the fence. There are lots of those, and I would
                hate to loose these boys, since they need the program most.
                The leaders who no longer have boys in the program, but used to pitch in for
                those who couldn't afford it might be forced to think twice during these
                tough times - financially and time-wise. Many struggling units in our area
                are run by non-parents, because the parents choose not to step up. These
                leaders are frequently active in their own kids' troops and crews, as well
                as commissioners, RT commissioners, and district sub-committee chairs.
                Please don't tell me they need to do more or do a better job.

                Corinna
              • Ray Scott
                Wow. Maybe I can back up and we can possibly chalk my post up to a rookie mistake or something. But I certainly don t see how I implied this means leaders need
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
                  Wow. Maybe I can back up and we can possibly chalk my post up to a rookie
                  mistake or something. But I certainly don't see how I implied this means
                  leaders need to do more.



                  I acknowledge that the condition our condition is in varies widely from
                  region to region right now, and I admit that didn't take that into
                  consideration. I can only speak from my own experience in scouting, and that
                  leads me to say and to continue to maintain that it doesn't seem
                  unreasonable. It still seems to me a miniscule percentage when compared to
                  annual total of all the other costs.



                  And thankfully the scale of the increase is not on par with the absurd
                  transportation example. If my transportation increased that much I would
                  have to walk to scouts for sure.



                  Ray

                  _____

                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of corinnajones@...
                  Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:18 PM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?








                  The issue is really not the leaders' children, but those boys whose parents
                  couldn't care less or are on the fence. There are lots of those, and I would

                  hate to loose these boys, since they need the program most.
                  The leaders who no longer have boys in the program, but used to pitch in for

                  those who couldn't afford it might be forced to think twice during these
                  tough times - financially and time-wise. Many struggling units in our area
                  are run by non-parents, because the parents choose not to step up. These
                  leaders are frequently active in their own kids' troops and crews, as well
                  as commissioners, RT commissioners, and district sub-committee chairs.
                  Please don't tell me they need to do more or do a better job.

                  Corinna





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ftooth
                  C mon, $5 a year is not a barrier . What are the other barriers to membership? Should membership be free? Scouting is not without cost, so WHO should pay
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 5, 2009
                    C'mon, $5 a year is not a "barrier". What are the other barriers to membership?

                    Should membership be free? Scouting is not without cost, so WHO should pay the cost?

                    What's the real gripe here, it can't be a lousy 5 bucks?
                    Frank Toothaker

                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, gottshalld@... wrote:
                    >
                    > The BSA does not need another barrier to membership, either new or continued.
                    >
                    > Dave Gottshall
                  • Brian Sutilla
                    First to all...I have not seen this through my official channels. But that doesn t mean it is coming. Second, Yes in 2003 it went from $7 to $10. But Dave,
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                      First to all...I have not seen this through my official channels. But that doesn't mean it is coming.

                      Second, Yes in 2003 it went from $7 to $10. But Dave, that was the first increase in the registration fee (not boys' life) since AT LEAST 1993 (and if memory serves it was a lot longer). If you truly want to look at inflation, look at the cost for scouting when it started to now. Not just a small period of time. I am not going to do that, but I am guessing you will find we are still way behind the cumulative inflation rate.


                      Third, How much do parents pay for soccer? Baseball? Football? etc? This is still a HUGE bargain!!! Oh and most of those are only for 6 weeks. We are for a whole year.

                      Fourth, every council has the "if you can't afford it, we will help" clause.

                      Lastly, Every unit should be building registration fees and boys life fees into their unit budget plans. The youth and unit should be fundraising to support that and all of its activities.

                      Ok, off my soap Box.

                      Yours in Scouting,
                      Brian Sutilla




                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Scott" <rayscott3@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > It doesn't seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay
                      > my fees as well. It's a matter of deciding what's important.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Ray Scott
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of gottshalld@...
                      > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:36 PM
                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com; scouts-l@...
                      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.
                      >
                      > So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.
                      >
                      > I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and well
                      > ahead of most families increase in disposable income.
                      >
                      > ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't
                      > even start.
                      >
                      > Dave Gottshall
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Michael <the_sandells@ <mailto:the_sandells%40comcast.net>
                      > comcast.net>
                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                      > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am
                      > Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                      >
                      > Maybe I am behind on my reading...
                      >
                      > I just recieved this from our council office:
                      >
                      > Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase
                      >
                      > The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business
                      > meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee
                      > for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1,
                      > 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The
                      > Exploring fee remains $10.
                      >
                      > A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both
                      > the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National
                      > Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to
                      > the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council
                      > support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the
                      > cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as
                      > the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff
                      > and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these
                      > considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the
                      > fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a
                      > period of at least three years.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Melina Baker
                      Our DE confirmed the rate increase this past week, so I m operating on the assumption it is true. When I posted something about the increase to our district s
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                        Our DE confirmed the rate increase this past week, so I'm operating on the
                        assumption it is true.



                        When I posted something about the increase to our district's yahoo group, I
                        also compared it to sports. Before we were a scouting family, we were a
                        soccer family. In my area, soccer was cheaper than any other sport for
                        registration and equipment, so it made for a good comparison. To
                        participate fully for a Cub Scout today wound up to be roughly the same cost
                        as to participate at a minimum for soccer (per costs seven years ago). We
                        paid in excess of $2,000 a year for my daughter, who was a star player,
                        deeply committed to the game, to play to the full level of her capabilities!
                        I pointed out to our group that nearly any activity can be as costly as
                        parents are willing to commit themselves to pay, but very few have such an
                        inexpensive buy-in as scouts - $25 for a year, and that includes a magazine.



                        Melina Baker

                        Cubmaster, Pack 403





                        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Brian Sutilla
                        Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?








                        First to all...I have not seen this through my official channels. But that
                        doesn't mean it is coming.

                        Second, Yes in 2003 it went from $7 to $10. But Dave, that was the first
                        increase in the registration fee (not boys' life) since AT LEAST 1993 (and
                        if memory serves it was a lot longer). If you truly want to look at
                        inflation, look at the cost for scouting when it started to now. Not just a
                        small period of time. I am not going to do that, but I am guessing you will
                        find we are still way behind the cumulative inflation rate.

                        Third, How much do parents pay for soccer? Baseball? Football? etc? This is
                        still a HUGE bargain!!! Oh and most of those are only for 6 weeks. We are
                        for a whole year.

                        Fourth, every council has the "if you can't afford it, we will help" clause.

                        Lastly, Every unit should be building registration fees and boys life fees
                        into their unit budget plans. The youth and unit should be fundraising to
                        support that and all of its activities.

                        Ok, off my soap Box.

                        Yours in Scouting,
                        Brian Sutilla

                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
                        Scott" <rayscott3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > It doesn't seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay
                        > my fees as well. It's a matter of deciding what's important.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ray Scott
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                        [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                        Behalf
                        > Of gottshalld@...
                        > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:36 PM
                        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ;
                        scouts-l@...
                        > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.
                        >
                        > So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.
                        >
                        > I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and
                        well
                        > ahead of most families increase in disposable income.
                        >
                        > ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't
                        > even start.
                        >
                        > Dave Gottshall
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Michael <the_sandells@ <mailto:the_sandells%40comcast.net>
                        > comcast.net>
                        > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                        > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am
                        > Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                        >
                        > Maybe I am behind on my reading...
                        >
                        > I just recieved this from our council office:
                        >
                        > Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase
                        >
                        > The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business
                        > meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee
                        > for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1,
                        > 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The
                        > Exploring fee remains $10.
                        >
                        > A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both
                        > the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National
                        > Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to
                        > the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council
                        > support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the
                        > cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well
                        as
                        > the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from
                        staff
                        > and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these
                        > considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase
                        the
                        > fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a
                        > period of at least three years.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Christopher Connolly
                        I think that this will cost us more scouts that it will bring in.  Too many parents that already complain about the costs and I think that this will only turn
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                          I think that this will cost us more scouts that it will bring in.  Too many parents that already complain about the costs and I think that this will only turn them away. 

                          The sports argument does not always work.  Some parents just don't care.
                           Chris Connolly




                          ________________________________
                          From: Melina Baker <melina@...>
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 12:48:02 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?





                          Our DE confirmed the rate increase this past week, so I'm operating on the
                          assumption it is true.

                          When I posted something about the increase to our district's yahoo group, I
                          also compared it to sports. Before we were a scouting family, we were a
                          soccer family. In my area, soccer was cheaper than any other sport for
                          registration and equipment, so it made for a good comparison. To
                          participate fully for a Cub Scout today wound up to be roughly the same cost
                          as to participate at a minimum for soccer (per costs seven years ago). We
                          paid in excess of $2,000 a year for my daughter, who was a star player,
                          deeply committed to the game, to play to the full level of her capabilities!
                          I pointed out to our group that nearly any activity can be as costly as
                          parents are willing to commit themselves to pay, but very few have such an
                          inexpensive buy-in as scouts - $25 for a year, and that includes a magazine.

                          Melina Baker

                          Cubmaster, Pack 403

                          From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf
                          Of Brian Sutilla
                          Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?

                          First to all...I have not seen this through my official channels. But that
                          doesn't mean it is coming.

                          Second, Yes in 2003 it went from $7 to $10. But Dave, that was the first
                          increase in the registration fee (not boys' life) since AT LEAST 1993 (and
                          if memory serves it was a lot longer). If you truly want to look at
                          inflation, look at the cost for scouting when it started to now. Not just a
                          small period of time. I am not going to do that, but I am guessing you will
                          find we are still way behind the cumulative inflation rate.

                          Third, How much do parents pay for soccer? Baseball? Football? etc? This is
                          still a HUGE bargain!!! Oh and most of those are only for 6 weeks. We are
                          for a whole year.

                          Fourth, every council has the "if you can't afford it, we will help" clause.

                          Lastly, Every unit should be building registration fees and boys life fees
                          into their unit budget plans. The youth and unit should be fundraising to
                          support that and all of its activities.

                          Ok, off my soap Box.

                          Yours in Scouting,
                          Brian Sutilla

                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:scouter_ t%40yahoogroups. com> , "Ray
                          Scott" <rayscott3@. ..> wrote:
                          >
                          > It doesn't seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay
                          > my fees as well. It's a matter of deciding what's important.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Ray Scott
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:scouter_ t%40yahoogroups. com>
                          [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:scouter_ t%40yahoogroups. com> ] On
                          Behalf
                          > Of gottshalld@. ..
                          > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:36 PM
                          > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:scouter_ t%40yahoogroups. com> ;
                          scouts-l@...
                          > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.
                          >
                          > So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.
                          >
                          > I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and
                          well
                          > ahead of most families increase in disposable income.
                          >
                          > ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't
                          > even start.
                          >
                          > Dave Gottshall
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Michael <the_sandells@ <mailto:the_ sandells% 40comcast. net>
                          > comcast.net>
                          > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_ t%40yahoogroups. com> ps.com
                          > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am
                          > Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?
                          >
                          > Maybe I am behind on my reading...
                          >
                          > I just recieved this from our council office:
                          >
                          > Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase
                          >
                          > The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business
                          > meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee
                          > for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1,
                          > 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The
                          > Exploring fee remains $10.
                          >
                          > A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both
                          > the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National
                          > Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to
                          > the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council
                          > support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the
                          > cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well
                          as
                          > the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from
                          staff
                          > and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these
                          > considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase
                          the
                          > fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a
                          > period of at least three years.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • gottshalld@aol.com
                          Brian, If you want to go back, how far do you want to go?? How about 1910.? The cost of scouting in 1910 is a very small fraction of the cost of scouting in
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                            Brian,

                            If you want to go back, how far do you want to go?? How about 1910.? The cost of scouting in 1910 is a very small fraction of the cost of scouting in 2010.

                            You only have to go back to the 1964 NJ to see the start of the gross inflation in the cost of? National events and the "Disneyization" which occurred during the A.P. Hill years.

                            What about the hat-in-hand council program of SME/FOS and the contrived James E. West Buy-a-Knot.

                            What about the BSA Foundation?

                            You do not want to go down this road.? You will only make my point.

                            Dave Gottshall??




                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Brian Sutilla <spatula@...>
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:16 am
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?































                            First to all...I have not seen this through my official channels. But that doesn't mean it is coming.



                            Second, Yes in 2003 it went from $7 to $10. But Dave, that was the first increase in the registration fee (not boys' life) since AT LEAST 1993 (and if memory serves it was a lot longer). If you truly want to look at inflation, look at the cost for scouting when it started to now. Not just a small period of time. I am not going to do that, but I am guessing you will find we are still way behind the cumulative inflation rate.



                            Third, How much do parents pay for soccer? Baseball? Football? etc? This is still a HUGE bargain!!! Oh and most of those are only for 6 weeks. We are for a whole year.



                            Fourth, every council has the "if you can't afford it, we will help" clause.



                            Lastly, Every unit should be building registration fees and boys life fees into their unit budget plans. The youth and unit should be fundraising to support that and all of its activities.



                            Ok, off my soap Box.



                            Yours in Scouting,

                            Brian Sutilla



                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Scott" <rayscott3@...> wrote:

                            >

                            > It doesn't seem unreasonable. I have three scouts in the program and I pay

                            > my fees as well. It's a matter of deciding what's important.

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > Ray Scott

                            >

                            > _____

                            >

                            > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                            > Of gottshalld@...

                            > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:36 PM

                            > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com; scouts-l@...

                            > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > I am cross-posting my response to let others know about the increase.

                            >

                            > So in 2002 the fee was $7 and now $15.

                            >

                            > I would say that this is slightly higher that the rate of inflation and well

                            > ahead of most families increase in disposable income.

                            >

                            > ... we wonder why they leave ... now we can start wondering why they don't

                            > even start.

                            >

                            > Dave Gottshall

                            >

                            > -----Original Message-----

                            > From: Michael <the_sandells@ <mailto:the_sandells%40comcast.net>

                            > comcast.net>

                            > To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

                            > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:44 am

                            > Subject: [Scouter_T] Fee Increase?

                            >

                            > Maybe I am behind on my reading...

                            >

                            > I just recieved this from our council office:

                            >

                            > Traditional Membership Registration Fee Increase

                            >

                            > The BSA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution at the business

                            > meeting on May 22 to increase the traditional membership registration fee

                            > for all youth and adults to $15 from its current $10, effective Jan. 1,

                            > 2010. The last fee increase, which was from $7 to $10, was in 2003. The

                            > Exploring fee remains $10.

                            >

                            > A great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision by both

                            > the Executive Board and the Membership Fee Task Force led by National

                            > Commissioner Tico Perez. Consideration was given to an expected deficit to

                            > the National Council operating budget, the impact to program and council

                            > support, the necessary funding required over the next several years, the

                            > cost of implementing fee increases annually in systems and forms, as well as

                            > the overall fees paid by councils. Input was sought and received from staff

                            > and volunteers at the council level. Finally, given all these

                            > considerations, it was determined that the best approach was to increase the

                            > fee to the level chosen and make every effort to hold that level for a

                            > period of at least three years.

                            >

                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >


























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Brant Lippincott
                            Cost is only a problem in absence of benefit.  Scouting DOES have a benefit.  This is a relatively minor increase.  I don t think that this increase is
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                              Cost is only a problem in absence of benefit.  Scouting DOES have a benefit.  This is a relatively minor increase.  I don't think that this increase is designed to bring IN anyone.  If I recall correctly, nation has said that the old $10 fee covered the costs of running the registration process - and nothing else.  I've been in IT for many years and banks used to say that it cost $1/month to keep an account on the books - that was 20 years ago.  The last time someone mentioned a figure it was more like $5.

                              Many BOY scout units have a fairly significant annual fee.  $60 and up.  Some SHOULD be willing to absorb this cost and not increase their fee.  That would make the $5 increase a moot point.

                              Cub units don't charge a large annual fee, so that may be a potential problem...  If you approach it as "the BSA has made a small increase - due to an increase in their costs", I think most will not have a problem.  Remember that the actual cost of running the program is over $100/boy - typically funded thru FOS.

                              Stress the benefits - leadership, etc...  I don't think this will be a problem for most.

                              Brant Lippincott



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Christopher Connolly <fire_medic_cjc@...>
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 2:12:14 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?

                              I think that this will cost us more scouts that it will bring in.  Too many parents that already complain about the costs and I think that this will only turn them away. 

                              The sports argument does not always work.  Some parents just don't care.
                               Chris Connolly
                            • ftooth
                              Not sure what your point is? The BSA Foundation, FOS, and James West award are all designed to raise funds for Scouting. That s a good thing, no? None are
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                                Not sure what your point is?

                                The BSA Foundation, FOS, and James West award are all designed to raise funds for Scouting. That's a good thing, no? None are mandatory; you donate out of the goodness of your heart. The membership fee is mandatory; members must pay $15 per year.
                                I've a sneakin' hunch that if there was no BSA Foundation, no FOS, and no West, the membership fee would be a tad higher. Maybe the membership fee should be $1,000 and the James West $15.

                                Maybe the national jamboree is a waste of money, maybe Philmont too? Maybe we should we scrap the Handbook, publications, Eagle program, etc etc.

                                Frank Toothaker
                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, gottshalld@... wrote:
                                > Brian,
                                >
                                > If you want to go back, how far do you want to go?? How about 1910.? The cost of scouting in 1910 is a very small fraction of the cost of scouting in 2010.
                                >
                                > You only have to go back to the 1964 NJ to see the start of the gross inflation in the cost of? National events and the "Disneyization" which occurred during the A.P. Hill years.
                                >
                                > What about the hat-in-hand council program of SME/FOS and the contrived James E. West Buy-a-Knot.
                                >
                                > What about the BSA Foundation?
                                >
                                > You do not want to go down this road.? You will only make my point.
                                >
                                > Dave Gottshall??
                              • bill smith
                                Most, almost all of us white middle class folk will gladly pay the extra $5 and hardly notice it. Since we make up the overwhelming majority of BSA membership,
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                                  Most, almost all of us white middle class folk
                                  will gladly pay the extra $5 and hardly notice it.
                                  Since we make up the overwhelming majority
                                  of BSA membership, membership will suffer
                                  only a negligible drop.
                                  On the other hand, even with an unbelievable
                                  drop of 10% in registration, BSA National will
                                  still come out with a 35% increase in revenue,
                                  The big losers will be a few single parent families
                                  who will balance $5 against food and transportation
                                  costs to and from work. Then there's those outreach
                                  programs that are funded by fixed budgets. They
                                  will drop one third of their members. Who cares?
                                  They're just poor uderpriv. trash anyway.

                                  Have a great time at the Jambo.

                                  bill smith
                                  The best gift for a Cub Scout.......
                                  ......get his parents involved!
                                  http://wtsmith.com/rt.html

                                  Brant Lippincott wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Cost is only a problem in absence of benefit. Scouting DOES have a
                                  > benefit. This is a relatively minor increase. I don't think that
                                  > this increase is designed to bring IN anyone. If I recall correctly,
                                  > nation has said that the old $10 fee covered the costs of running the
                                  > registration process - and nothing else. I've been in IT for many
                                  > years and banks used to say that it cost $1/month to keep an account
                                  > on the books - that was 20 years ago. The last time someone mentioned
                                  > a figure it was more like $5.
                                  >
                                  > Many BOY scout units have a fairly significant annual fee. $60 and
                                  > up. Some SHOULD be willing to absorb this cost and not increase their
                                  > fee. That would make the $5 increase a moot point.
                                  >
                                  > Cub units don't charge a large annual fee, so that may be a potential
                                  > problem... If you approach it as "the BSA has made a small increase -
                                  > due to an increase in their costs", I think most will not have a
                                  > problem. Remember that the actual cost of running the program is over
                                  > $100/boy - typically funded thru FOS.
                                  >
                                  > Stress the benefits - leadership, etc... I don't think this will be a
                                  > problem for most.
                                  >
                                  > Brant Lippincott
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: Christopher Connolly <fire_medic_cjc@...
                                  > <mailto:fire_medic_cjc%40yahoo.com>>
                                  > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 2:12:14 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?
                                  >
                                  > I think that this will cost us more scouts that it will bring in. Too
                                  > many parents that already complain about the costs and I think that
                                  > this will only turn them away.
                                  >
                                • Roy Fisher
                                  ... From: Brant Lippincott Subject: Re: Fee Increase? Cost is only a problem in absence of benefit.  Scouting DOES have a benefit.  This is a relatively
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Brant Lippincott
                                    Subject: Re: Fee Increase?

                                    Cost is only a problem in absence of benefit.  Scouting DOES have a
                                    benefit.  This is a relatively minor increase.  I don't think that this
                                    increase is designed to bring IN anyone.  If I recall correctly, nation has
                                    said that the old $10 fee covered the costs of running the registration
                                    process - and nothing else.  I've been in IT for many years and banks used
                                    to say that it cost $1/month to keep an account on the books - that was 20
                                    years ago.  The last time someone mentioned a figure it was more like $5.

                                    Many BOY scout units have a fairly significant annual fee.  $60 and up. 
                                    Some SHOULD be willing to absorb this cost and not increase their fee.  That
                                    would make the $5 increase a moot point.
                                    >>>>>>>>>>>

                                    If this were the only increase you might be right. Regarding the cost of
                                    registration, most of that is borne by the local Councils not National.

                                    But let's look at the larger picture: 50% increase in registration fees
                                    (hardly minor in my book), merit badge books that cost $4.95 up from less
                                    than $3.00, rank patches, merit badges etc. increased over 100% in the same
                                    time frame as the registration increase, higher camping fees, increased
                                    transportation costs, the cost of equipment, and oh yeah the new uniform.

                                    And if you are in Cubs you get to buy a spiffy new neckerchief, neckerchief
                                    slide and hat each year.

                                    I would be willing to bet that most units will not see a 50% increase in
                                    their popcorn commissions or other fund raising activities. Given the
                                    economic conditions in most areas of the country many units will be darned
                                    lucky to stay flat from last year.

                                    But I guess BSA has to find the funding for their new National Jamboree site
                                    somewhere, so why not put it on the backs of Scouts?

                                    In years past, our Troop has always paid for all of the youth and adult
                                    registration. We were already discussing eliminating paying for adults
                                    because of reductions in our fund raising income and increases in our other
                                    costs; this nails the coffin shut.

                                    Roy Fisher
                                  • ftooth
                                    Merit badge books, patches, handbooks, uniforms, jamboree site, equipment, transportation etc etc etc etc. It is ALL for the Scouts ! WHO besides Scouts SHOULD
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                                      Merit badge books, patches, handbooks, uniforms, jamboree site, equipment, transportation etc etc etc etc.

                                      It is ALL for the Scouts !

                                      WHO besides Scouts SHOULD pay for it?? The Scoutmaster maybe? The taxpayer? WHO should pay? It ain't free!

                                      Frank Toothaker

                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Fisher" <rfisher003@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > But let's look at the larger picture: 50% increase in registration fees
                                      > (hardly minor in my book), merit badge books that cost $4.95 up from less
                                      > than $3.00, rank patches, merit badges etc. increased over 100% in the same
                                      > time frame as the registration increase, higher camping fees, increased
                                      > transportation costs, the cost of equipment, and oh yeah the new uniform.
                                      >
                                      > And if you are in Cubs you get to buy a spiffy new neckerchief, neckerchief
                                      > slide and hat each year...
                                      >
                                      > But I guess BSA has to find the funding for their new National Jamboree site
                                      > somewhere, so why not put it on the backs of Scouts?
                                    • gottshalld@aol.com
                                      Frank, That is only the tip of the iceberg. FOS is voluntary.? But goodness of heart has nothing to do with it.? Every year the Council comes in to my unit
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 7, 2009
                                        Frank,

                                        That is only the tip of the iceberg.

                                        FOS is voluntary.? But goodness of heart has nothing to do with it.? Every year the Council comes in to my unit crying poor mouth, setting a recommendation of donation of over $100 per family.? While I do feel bad for the local council and provide many hours attempting to support its program efforts and do write a check, I feel that the whole structure and accounting scheme can not be sustained on the backs of its members.

                                        I also feel that National is totally out-of-touch with both local councils and units.? In the Northeast, we have many local high adventure programs.? These programs provide a wide variety of locales and opportunities.? But there is no coordination, no National clearinghouse, no National support.? Now we see that National is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy, develop, and staff another National High Adventure.? IMHO, this is a colossal waste of money, places additional financial stress on local councils and their programs, with no benefit to youth or units.

                                        Do you remember the reason why uniforms cost so much?? The BSA wanted to have them "Made in America."? A noble goal and we all went along.? Now that the new uniforms are made overseas, did the cost of the uniforms go down in pricing consistent with the difference in manufacturing costs? Nope.Wind-fall profits to the BSA.

                                        Now the BSA through their new licensing agreements and enforcement programs, the BSA is driving small local service companies out of the scout service business and driving those that require anything with a BSA trademark to National Supply, National Scout Shops, or a select group of licensees that pay a fee to the BSA for the privilege to serve their members.? Those additional costs are being paid by the members in increased fee costs. More profits for the BSA.

                                        This is not a small increase.? With membership at just south of 3 million, this "small increase" generates an ADDITIONAL $15 MILLION.? What increase in service to my unit will I see for my units portion of this fee increase?

                                        So we see more of our monies going to Irving, continued decline in membership, National's own actions undermining the finances and programs of its local councils, and you ask me what the point is?

                                        Frank, can I be any clearer?

                                        Dave Gottshall





                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: ftooth <ftooth@...>
                                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 9:10 pm
                                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?































                                        Not sure what your point is?



                                        The BSA Foundation, FOS, and James West award are all designed to raise funds for Scouting. That's a good thing, no? None are mandatory; you donate out of the goodness of your heart. The membership fee is mandatory; members must pay $15 per year.

                                        I've a sneakin' hunch that if there was no BSA Foundation, no FOS, and no West, the membership fee would be a tad higher. Maybe the membership fee should be $1,000 and the James West $15.



                                        Maybe the national jamboree is a waste of money, maybe Philmont too? Maybe we should we scrap the Handbook, publications, Eagle program, etc etc.



                                        Frank Toothaker

                                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, gottshalld@... wrote:

                                        > Brian,

                                        >

                                        > If you want to go back, how far do you want to go?? How about 1910.? The cost of scouting in 1910 is a very small fraction of the cost of scouting in 2010.

                                        >

                                        > You only have to go back to the 1964 NJ to see the start of the gross inflation in the cost of? National events and the "Disneyization" which occurred during the A.P. Hill years.

                                        >

                                        > What about the hat-in-hand council program of SME/FOS and the contrived James E. West Buy-a-Knot.

                                        >

                                        > What about the BSA Foundation?

                                        >

                                        > You do not want to go down this road.? You will only make my point.

                                        >

                                        > Dave Gottshall??


























                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Roy Fisher
                                        You are absolutely right; someone has to pay. But by the same token at some point someone says it just ain t worth it. The BENEFIT you mention is very
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 8, 2009
                                          You are absolutely right; someone has to pay. But by the same token at some
                                          point someone says "it just ain't worth it." The BENEFIT you mention is
                                          very intangible and often not even noticed for a number of years after
                                          leaving the program. Where is the tipping point were the cost exceeds the
                                          benefit? I'm sure I don't know, but I'm also sure that there will be a
                                          number of folks that will be 'running the numbers' the next time their unit
                                          recharters.

                                          I can go camping for much less and don't even have to mess with a tour
                                          permit.

                                          Roy Fisher

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of ftooth
                                          Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:56 PM
                                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Fee Increase?

                                          Merit badge books, patches, handbooks, uniforms, jamboree site, equipment,
                                          transportation etc etc etc etc.

                                          It is ALL for the Scouts !

                                          WHO besides Scouts SHOULD pay for it?? The Scoutmaster maybe? The taxpayer?
                                          WHO should pay? It ain't free!

                                          Frank Toothaker

                                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Fisher" <rfisher003@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > But let's look at the larger picture: 50% increase in registration fees
                                          > (hardly minor in my book), merit badge books that cost $4.95 up from less
                                          > than $3.00, rank patches, merit badges etc. increased over 100% in the
                                          same
                                          > time frame as the registration increase, higher camping fees, increased
                                          > transportation costs, the cost of equipment, and oh yeah the new uniform.

                                          >
                                          > And if you are in Cubs you get to buy a spiffy new neckerchief,
                                          neckerchief
                                          > slide and hat each year...
                                          >
                                          > But I guess BSA has to find the funding for their new National Jamboree
                                          site
                                          > somewhere, so why not put it on the backs of Scouts?



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