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RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides

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  • Charlie Henderson
    There is no real difference between a PPT file and a PPS file other than how the file is opened when you double click on it. A PPS file can be edited by
    Message 1 of 16 , May 26 7:49 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      There is no real difference between a PPT file and a PPS file other than how
      the file is opened when you double click on it. A PPS file can be edited by
      opening it directly from the PowerPoint editor rather than just clicking on
      it.



      The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
      of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
      Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
      imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
      instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
      add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
      the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
      directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
      changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
      probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
      common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
      marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.



      In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
      presentations get a bad rap.



      Charlie Henderson
      8817 Jennifer Ct.
      Plano, TX 75025

      Home: 972-335-0691
      Cell: 214-336-7328



      eMail: chazzjh@...



      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Richard C. Pushies
      Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:29 AM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides








      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
      "albormuth" <al@...> wrote:
      >
      > The .ppt slides are pictures/images. It was a cut and paste from the .pdf
      (which is pictures/images)to ppt.
      >
      > -al

      Hi Al,

      .ppt files (Power Point presentation) are different than .pps files (Power
      Point slide show), are agreed on this point? "It was a cut and paste from
      the .pdf to ppt." What is "It" that you refer to? Is this the file Brian was
      discussing? I would like to see the file in question. Can you direct me to a
      copy of the file or give me the name of the specific file in question?

      Rick





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Doug Acker
      I just layed my Powerpoint text boxes onto top of the image etc of where I need corrections. Its not pretty .but its only a handful or two of slides ... From:
      Message 2 of 16 , May 26 8:20 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        I just layed my Powerpoint text boxes onto top of the image etc of where I need corrections.

        Its not pretty .but its only a handful or two of slides


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Charlie Henderson
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 AM
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides





        There is no real difference between a PPT file and a PPS file other than how
        the file is opened when you double click on it. A PPS file can be edited by
        opening it directly from the PowerPoint editor rather than just clicking on
        it.

        The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
        of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
        Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
        imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
        instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
        add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
        the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
        directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
        changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
        probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
        common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
        marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.

        In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
        presentations get a bad rap.

        Charlie Henderson
        8817 Jennifer Ct.
        Plano, TX 75025

        Home: 972-335-0691
        Cell: 214-336-7328

        eMail: chazzjh@...
      • albormuth
        Check the first folder in the files section. -al
        Message 3 of 16 , May 26 9:58 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Check the first folder in the files section.
          -al
          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard C. Pushies" <rick@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "albormuth" <al@> wrote:
          > >
          > > The .ppt slides are pictures/images. It was a cut and paste from the .pdf (which is pictures/images)to ppt.
          > >
          > > -al
          >
          > Hi Al,
          >
          > .ppt files (Power Point presentation) are different than .pps files (Power Point slide show), are agreed on this point? "It was a cut and paste from the .pdf to ppt." What is "It" that you refer to? Is this the file Brian was discussing? I would like to see the file in question. Can you direct me to a copy of the file or give me the name of the specific file in question?
          >
          > Rick
          >
        • The Little's
          Charlie, On your comment below that I have high lighted in bold is hard on professional graphic designers, which I am a part of. We do not always know what our
          Message 4 of 16 , May 27 9:25 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Charlie,
            On your comment below that I have high lighted in bold is hard on
            professional graphic designers, which I am a part of. We do not always
            know what our designs are to be used for. We may be told that it will be
            for a brochure and then find out later that they liked the design so
            much that they had a staff member import the design into some other
            program that the staff member was familiar with. If we were told what
            areas the ideas would be spread over even if we are not doing the actual
            work, we could set up the different files for those specific needs. It
            is hard to see your work look great in the tool is was designed for be
            it Adobe Photoshop (photos), InDesign, Illustrator, CorelDRAW (ads,
            brochures, patches), Dreamweaver (web sites), PowerPoint (slide
            presentations, training) and then see that same layout enlarged for the
            screen and the resolution is terrible. Or someone uses a photo from the
            web on a slide show and it also has not enough dots to create the photo
            for the slide show and it is fuzzy. Costs are cuts sometimes at the
            expense of the design, spread too thin. I've seen brochures that look
            super but later at the same event the PowerPoint to show off similar
            items or some other support part of the event is terrible. Time frame of
            2 different people putting the event together, one ahead of the game and
            the other doing it the night before? I would hope not, but graphics are
            designed for a specific purpose has to be adapted but the same tools if
            they are to succeed. If you save a graphic off of the web, it is only
            going to be good for reuse on the web (size is too small for anything
            else). A good resolution is about 300 dpi to start with and then you
            reduce the copy NOT the MASTER to fix the layout and tool.
            Try working on a layout and the person in charge sends in the PDF copy
            to the printer or patch maker, because they don't have the orignal file
            software to open the press or patchmaker file, and having the item come
            back a little different and you have to explain why there is a
            difference in what you showed them and the final product. Or why does it
            look good when you do it and terrible when he does it. (You use original
            art and they use copies of copies, similar to what happens when you
            print something and someone copies the copy and they copy the
            copy....end result is trash. Best piece of advice --ask what areas will
            the art cover, methods to be used, who can I ask for originals to
            balance the design (I redraw items instead of pasting a bitmap into an
            original design because it will show up when blowing up the layout and
            bit you later) and MOST IMPORTANT-- check to see what does it look like
            before releasing it to the general public. If it does not do what you
            really had in mind it is time to go back to the drawing board and try
            again.

            Also, National does try to protect the content of what they send out so
            that it is the BSA material that everyone knows as original and
            standard. If anyone could write the ways to do some part of BSA data,
            the new scouts, leaders and parents would really be confused as to who
            was right and who was wrong and is there a gray area that both don't
            have a clue what they really mean. Maybe it would be nice for National
            to meet you half way and give you a white section below some of their
            text that your Council could had a line or two about how you do
            something a little differently or as a cherry on top to the standard
            training.

            Carol E. Little
            CS Trainer
            BSAC Program Committee member
            and webmaster of
            http://www.Cubroundtable.com
            http://www.bsac449-bsa.org
            Black Swamp Area Council
            NW OH


            from Charlie Henderson
            The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
            of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
            Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
            imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
            instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
            add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
            the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
            directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
            changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
            probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
            common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
            marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.

            In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
            presentations get a bad rap.
          • Terry Lind
            As far as changing National s training slides, I advise my trainers NOT TO.  Correct that-they cannot.   National wants all leaders to get the same info
            Message 5 of 16 , May 27 3:04 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              As far as changing National's training slides, I advise my trainers NOT TO.  Correct that-they cannot.   National wants all leaders to get the same info that is why they go to the trouble of providing us with a syllabus for everything.  What I do suggest is if they have additional or local info or tips-add slides (watching the time factor of course).  Personally in the first 2 modules-Intro to CS and Cs Fun, where it said do a song or ceremony, etc., I created slides for those.  That way I didn't have to handout copies of the song or ceremony (think green).  Our training mantra is you have to give everyone the egg (syllabus), but how you prepare it (present it) is where you personality shines. 

              Terry Lind
              Council CS Training Chair
              Feisty Fox
              SR-162

              --- On Wed, 5/27/09, The Little's <glittle@...> wrote:


              From: The Little's <glittle@...>
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:25 AM








              Charlie,
              On your comment below that I have high lighted in bold is hard on
              professional graphic designers, which I am a part of. We do not always
              know what our designs are to be used for. We may be told that it will be
              for a brochure and then find out later that they liked the design so
              much that they had a staff member import the design into some other
              program that the staff member was familiar with. If we were told what
              areas the ideas would be spread over even if we are not doing the actual
              work, we could set up the different files for those specific needs. It
              is hard to see your work look great in the tool is was designed for be
              it Adobe Photoshop (photos), InDesign, Illustrator, CorelDRAW (ads,
              brochures, patches), Dreamweaver (web sites), PowerPoint (slide
              presentations, training) and then see that same layout enlarged for the
              screen and the resolution is terrible. Or someone uses a photo from the
              web on a slide show and it also has not enough dots to create the photo
              for the slide show and it is fuzzy. Costs are cuts sometimes at the
              expense of the design, spread too thin. I've seen brochures that look
              super but later at the same event the PowerPoint to show off similar
              items or some other support part of the event is terrible. Time frame of
              2 different people putting the event together, one ahead of the game and
              the other doing it the night before? I would hope not, but graphics are
              designed for a specific purpose has to be adapted but the same tools if
              they are to succeed. If you save a graphic off of the web, it is only
              going to be good for reuse on the web (size is too small for anything
              else). A good resolution is about 300 dpi to start with and then you
              reduce the copy NOT the MASTER to fix the layout and tool.
              Try working on a layout and the person in charge sends in the PDF copy
              to the printer or patch maker, because they don't have the orignal file
              software to open the press or patchmaker file, and having the item come
              back a little different and you have to explain why there is a
              difference in what you showed them and the final product. Or why does it
              look good when you do it and terrible when he does it. (You use original
              art and they use copies of copies, similar to what happens when you
              print something and someone copies the copy and they copy the
              copy....end result is trash. Best piece of advice --ask what areas will
              the art cover, methods to be used, who can I ask for originals to
              balance the design (I redraw items instead of pasting a bitmap into an
              original design because it will show up when blowing up the layout and
              bit you later) and MOST IMPORTANT-- check to see what does it look like
              before releasing it to the general public. If it does not do what you
              really had in mind it is time to go back to the drawing board and try
              again.

              Also, National does try to protect the content of what they send out so
              that it is the BSA material that everyone knows as original and
              standard. If anyone could write the ways to do some part of BSA data,
              the new scouts, leaders and parents would really be confused as to who
              was right and who was wrong and is there a gray area that both don't
              have a clue what they really mean. Maybe it would be nice for National
              to meet you half way and give you a white section below some of their
              text that your Council could had a line or two about how you do
              something a little differently or as a cherry on top to the standard
              training.

              Carol E. Little
              CS Trainer
              BSAC Program Committee member
              and webmaster of
              http://www.Cubround table.com
              http://www.bsac449- bsa.org
              Black Swamp Area Council
              NW OH

              from Charlie Henderson
              The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
              of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
              Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
              imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
              instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
              add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
              the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
              directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
              changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
              probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
              common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
              marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.

              In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
              presentations get a bad rap.


















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Doug Acker
              So what do you do when the National slides are wrong ..like in the attached handout? From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
              Message 6 of 16 , May 27 3:19 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                So what do you do when the National slides are wrong ..like in the attached
                handout?



                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Terry Lind
                Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:05 PM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides








                As far as changing National's training slides, I advise my trainers NOT TO.
                Correct that-they cannot.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ronald Parks
                I am not convinced that National wants everyone to get the same information. If that were true, they would put the training online. Even if you teach straight
                Message 7 of 16 , May 27 5:19 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am not convinced that National wants everyone to get the same information.
                  If that were true, they would put the training online. Even if you teach
                  straight from the syllabus, you won't get the same information. Some
                  instructors won't deviate at all, whereas some will point out the errors and
                  deliver the correct information.



                  I will not tell you what we have done in our district, since that would
                  engender a lot of controversy. Suffice it to say that we teach the
                  information that National intends us to, but we don't use their
                  presentations since they leave our new Cubbers with the impression that
                  Scouting as an organization is somewhat unprofessional.



                  But I will share with you some tips that we have found useful:



                  1) Our instructors are told to use the current month's Program Helps for the
                  gathering, the cheer, and the fun activities that take place during the
                  "pack meeting" portion of Intro to Cub Scouting. This provides an object
                  lesson for the new Cubbers on planning and it makes each "pack meeting"
                  unique - which is what they are supposed to be.



                  2) For the Bobcat badge presentation, we took the image of the badge from
                  scouting.org and plugged it into an Avery template (number 6572, to be
                  exact). So now all we have to do is print out the file onto the Avery
                  stickers prior to each training session. When we award the badge, we hold a
                  "ceremony" and place the sticker on each person. The only thing you need to
                  be aware of is that this method uses up a lot of blue ink. But it has the
                  advantage of being simple and quick.



                  YiS,



                  Ron Parks

                  Victory District Training Chair





                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Terry Lind
                  Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:05 PM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides








                  As far as changing National's training slides, I advise my trainers NOT TO.
                  Correct that-they cannot. National wants all leaders to get the same info
                  that is why they go to the trouble of providing us with a syllabus for
                  everything. What I do suggest is if they have additional or local info or
                  tips-add slides (watching the time factor of course). Personally in the
                  first 2 modules-Intro to CS and Cs Fun, where it said do a song or ceremony,
                  etc., I created slides for those. That way I didn't have to handout copies
                  of the song or ceremony (think green). Our training mantra is you have to
                  give everyone the egg (syllabus), but how you prepare it (present it) is
                  where you personality shines.

                  Terry Lind
                  Council CS Training Chair
                  Feisty Fox
                  SR-162

                  --- On Wed, 5/27/09, The Little's <glittle@...
                  <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com> > wrote:

                  From: The Little's <glittle@... <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com> >
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:25 AM

                  Charlie,
                  On your comment below that I have high lighted in bold is hard on
                  professional graphic designers, which I am a part of. We do not always
                  know what our designs are to be used for. We may be told that it will be
                  for a brochure and then find out later that they liked the design so
                  much that they had a staff member import the design into some other
                  program that the staff member was familiar with. If we were told what
                  areas the ideas would be spread over even if we are not doing the actual
                  work, we could set up the different files for those specific needs. It
                  is hard to see your work look great in the tool is was designed for be
                  it Adobe Photoshop (photos), InDesign, Illustrator, CorelDRAW (ads,
                  brochures, patches), Dreamweaver (web sites), PowerPoint (slide
                  presentations, training) and then see that same layout enlarged for the
                  screen and the resolution is terrible. Or someone uses a photo from the
                  web on a slide show and it also has not enough dots to create the photo
                  for the slide show and it is fuzzy. Costs are cuts sometimes at the
                  expense of the design, spread too thin. I've seen brochures that look
                  super but later at the same event the PowerPoint to show off similar
                  items or some other support part of the event is terrible. Time frame of
                  2 different people putting the event together, one ahead of the game and
                  the other doing it the night before? I would hope not, but graphics are
                  designed for a specific purpose has to be adapted but the same tools if
                  they are to succeed. If you save a graphic off of the web, it is only
                  going to be good for reuse on the web (size is too small for anything
                  else). A good resolution is about 300 dpi to start with and then you
                  reduce the copy NOT the MASTER to fix the layout and tool.
                  Try working on a layout and the person in charge sends in the PDF copy
                  to the printer or patch maker, because they don't have the orignal file
                  software to open the press or patchmaker file, and having the item come
                  back a little different and you have to explain why there is a
                  difference in what you showed them and the final product. Or why does it
                  look good when you do it and terrible when he does it. (You use original
                  art and they use copies of copies, similar to what happens when you
                  print something and someone copies the copy and they copy the
                  copy....end result is trash. Best piece of advice --ask what areas will
                  the art cover, methods to be used, who can I ask for originals to
                  balance the design (I redraw items instead of pasting a bitmap into an
                  original design because it will show up when blowing up the layout and
                  bit you later) and MOST IMPORTANT-- check to see what does it look like
                  before releasing it to the general public. If it does not do what you
                  really had in mind it is time to go back to the drawing board and try
                  again.

                  Also, National does try to protect the content of what they send out so
                  that it is the BSA material that everyone knows as original and
                  standard. If anyone could write the ways to do some part of BSA data,
                  the new scouts, leaders and parents would really be confused as to who
                  was right and who was wrong and is there a gray area that both don't
                  have a clue what they really mean. Maybe it would be nice for National
                  to meet you half way and give you a white section below some of their
                  text that your Council could had a line or two about how you do
                  something a little differently or as a cherry on top to the standard
                  training.

                  Carol E. Little
                  CS Trainer
                  BSAC Program Committee member
                  and webmaster of
                  http://www.Cubround table.com
                  http://www.bsac449- bsa.org
                  Black Swamp Area Council
                  NW OH

                  from Charlie Henderson
                  The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
                  of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
                  Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
                  imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
                  instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
                  add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
                  the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
                  directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
                  changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
                  probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
                  common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
                  marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.

                  In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
                  presentations get a bad rap.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Charlie Henderson
                  To Carol (and any other graphic designers out there) : My apologies. It was not my intent to slight graphic designers though I can see how it might have been
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 28 7:43 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    To Carol (and any other graphic designers out there) : My apologies. It was
                    not my intent to slight graphic designers though I can see how it might have
                    been taken that way. My intent was to point out that the slides may be the
                    way they are due to expedience and not good presentation practice.



                    To All: Ron's point is very accurate. If they want it done EXACTLY the same
                    way, EVERYTIME, EVERYWHERE. Then it should be done on-line or via video.
                    Thus the introduction of "This is Scouting" as an on-line module. But much
                    of the rest of the information benefits from the nuances of how each council
                    and district operate. Generalities are good but the specifics for each
                    locale are what the leaders want and deserve.



                    Training is interesting and valuable due to the way it is presented by
                    people who have walked the talk. In my experience much of what the trainees
                    want to know is not in the slides so significant time is consumed verbally
                    filling in. It would be much better if this information were incorporated
                    directly into the formal material over time so that each district ends up
                    with a more complete course customized to its particular needs.



                    The other problem with the slides as they are is that they are BORING! Too
                    much text, too little graphics and no animation. PowerPoint is a very
                    powerful tool that can produce very good slides that can really support a
                    presentation but if the slides only contain static images of slides then
                    none of this power can be used to improve the learning. It also tends to
                    encourage people to depend too much on the slides or (horrors) read them.



                    Note that I refer to the PowerPoint files as slides and not a
                    "presentation". The presentation is the entire experience from which the
                    trainee's gain valuable learning. The slides are in support of that. A
                    person's mind is only fractionally consumed by listening so it is constantly
                    looking for something else to do. The value of slides or other visual aids
                    is to provide something for the mind to do that is topical and engaging.
                    Combine that with active participation, engaging exercises and active
                    note-taking (don't hand out the slides!) and the leaning is much more fun
                    and effective.



                    YIS,



                    Charlie Henderson

                    Assistant Scoutmaster

                    Troop 219, Boy Scouts of America



                    "A knot is an end unto itself"



                    8817 Jennifer Ct.

                    Plano Texas 75025

                    Home: 972-335-0691

                    Cell: 214-336-7328

                    Email: chazzjh@...



                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Ronald Parks
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:19 PM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides








                    I am not convinced that National wants everyone to get the same information.
                    If that were true, they would put the training online. Even if you teach
                    straight from the syllabus, you won't get the same information. Some
                    instructors won't deviate at all, whereas some will point out the errors and
                    deliver the correct information.

                    I will not tell you what we have done in our district, since that would
                    engender a lot of controversy. Suffice it to say that we teach the
                    information that National intends us to, but we don't use their
                    presentations since they leave our new Cubbers with the impression that
                    Scouting as an organization is somewhat unprofessional.

                    But I will share with you some tips that we have found useful:

                    1) Our instructors are told to use the current month's Program Helps for the
                    gathering, the cheer, and the fun activities that take place during the
                    "pack meeting" portion of Intro to Cub Scouting. This provides an object
                    lesson for the new Cubbers on planning and it makes each "pack meeting"
                    unique - which is what they are supposed to be.

                    2) For the Bobcat badge presentation, we took the image of the badge from
                    scouting.org and plugged it into an Avery template (number 6572, to be
                    exact). So now all we have to do is print out the file onto the Avery
                    stickers prior to each training session. When we award the badge, we hold a
                    "ceremony" and place the sticker on each person. The only thing you need to
                    be aware of is that this method uses up a lot of blue ink. But it has the
                    advantage of being simple and quick.

                    YiS,

                    Ron Parks

                    Victory District Training Chair

                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                    Behalf
                    Of Terry Lind
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:05 PM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides

                    As far as changing National's training slides, I advise my trainers NOT TO.
                    Correct that-they cannot. National wants all leaders to get the same info
                    that is why they go to the trouble of providing us with a syllabus for
                    everything. What I do suggest is if they have additional or local info or
                    tips-add slides (watching the time factor of course). Personally in the
                    first 2 modules-Intro to CS and Cs Fun, where it said do a song or ceremony,
                    etc., I created slides for those. That way I didn't have to handout copies
                    of the song or ceremony (think green). Our training mantra is you have to
                    give everyone the egg (syllabus), but how you prepare it (present it) is
                    where you personality shines.

                    Terry Lind
                    Council CS Training Chair
                    Feisty Fox
                    SR-162

                    --- On Wed, 5/27/09, The Little's <glittle@...
                    <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com>
                    <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com> > wrote:

                    From: The Little's <glittle@... <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com>
                    <mailto:glittle%40woh.rr.com> >
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Cub Scout training slides
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:25 AM

                    Charlie,
                    On your comment below that I have high lighted in bold is hard on
                    professional graphic designers, which I am a part of. We do not always
                    know what our designs are to be used for. We may be told that it will be
                    for a brochure and then find out later that they liked the design so
                    much that they had a staff member import the design into some other
                    program that the staff member was familiar with. If we were told what
                    areas the ideas would be spread over even if we are not doing the actual
                    work, we could set up the different files for those specific needs. It
                    is hard to see your work look great in the tool is was designed for be
                    it Adobe Photoshop (photos), InDesign, Illustrator, CorelDRAW (ads,
                    brochures, patches), Dreamweaver (web sites), PowerPoint (slide
                    presentations, training) and then see that same layout enlarged for the
                    screen and the resolution is terrible. Or someone uses a photo from the
                    web on a slide show and it also has not enough dots to create the photo
                    for the slide show and it is fuzzy. Costs are cuts sometimes at the
                    expense of the design, spread too thin. I've seen brochures that look
                    super but later at the same event the PowerPoint to show off similar
                    items or some other support part of the event is terrible. Time frame of
                    2 different people putting the event together, one ahead of the game and
                    the other doing it the night before? I would hope not, but graphics are
                    designed for a specific purpose has to be adapted but the same tools if
                    they are to succeed. If you save a graphic off of the web, it is only
                    going to be good for reuse on the web (size is too small for anything
                    else). A good resolution is about 300 dpi to start with and then you
                    reduce the copy NOT the MASTER to fix the layout and tool.
                    Try working on a layout and the person in charge sends in the PDF copy
                    to the printer or patch maker, because they don't have the orignal file
                    software to open the press or patchmaker file, and having the item come
                    back a little different and you have to explain why there is a
                    difference in what you showed them and the final product. Or why does it
                    look good when you do it and terrible when he does it. (You use original
                    art and they use copies of copies, similar to what happens when you
                    print something and someone copies the copy and they copy the
                    copy....end result is trash. Best piece of advice --ask what areas will
                    the art cover, methods to be used, who can I ask for originals to
                    balance the design (I redraw items instead of pasting a bitmap into an
                    original design because it will show up when blowing up the layout and
                    bit you later) and MOST IMPORTANT-- check to see what does it look like
                    before releasing it to the general public. If it does not do what you
                    really had in mind it is time to go back to the drawing board and try
                    again.

                    Also, National does try to protect the content of what they send out so
                    that it is the BSA material that everyone knows as original and
                    standard. If anyone could write the ways to do some part of BSA data,
                    the new scouts, leaders and parents would really be confused as to who
                    was right and who was wrong and is there a gray area that both don't
                    have a clue what they really mean. Maybe it would be nice for National
                    to meet you half way and give you a white section below some of their
                    text that your Council could had a line or two about how you do
                    something a little differently or as a cherry on top to the standard
                    training.

                    Carol E. Little
                    CS Trainer
                    BSAC Program Committee member
                    and webmaster of
                    http://www.Cubround table.com
                    http://www.bsac449- bsa.org
                    Black Swamp Area Council
                    NW OH

                    from Charlie Henderson
                    The slides in the PowerPoint files I have seen from BSA only contain images
                    of slide content. The slide was originally created in another program like
                    Photoshop and the finished image was imported into PowerPoint. It was also
                    imported into a document editor like MS Word in order to create the
                    instructor manual. It is not possible to change the text, layout, colors or
                    add animation. The only way to change the content is to either go back to
                    the original program and edit the native content or recreate the slide
                    directly in PowerPoint. This may have been done to prevent people making
                    changes to the slides but in my professional experience the slides were
                    probably created by someone who was not well versed in PowerPoint. This is
                    common among professional graphic designers and firms that specialize in
                    marketing materials. They can go very quickly in the other program.

                    In my opinion this is very bad practice and is one of the reasons PPT
                    presentations get a bad rap.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Richard C. Pushies
                    ... Training is interesting and valuable due to the way it is presented by people who have walked the talk. In my experience much of what the trainees want to
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 28 7:04 PM
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                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Henderson" <chazzjh@...> wrote:
                      "Training is interesting and valuable due to the way it is presented by people who have walked the talk. In my experience much of what the trainees want to know is not in the slides so significant time is consumed verbally filling in. It would be much better if this information were incorporated directly into the formal material over time so that each district ends up with a more complete course customized to its particular needs."

                      Hi Charlie,

                      Here, here my good man. Spot on! Some may not be familiar with the BSA Training Philosophy, so I will share it now.

                      Trainer's Philosophy
                      "As trainers in the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, and Venturing programs, we are often the very first non-unit Scouters that many adults encounter upon joining Scouting. Trainers should strive to be the personal embodiment of the ideal Scouter. The image, attitudes, messages, and example we portray can often mean the difference between adults remaining in and expanding their role in Scouting and losing them for good.

                      The information we convey to our participants during training sessions goes far beyond any syllabus. Our example speaks louder than any words we can present.

                      The core values of all we do in Scouting are the Scout Oath and Law. Connecting our roles as trainers to the Scout Law is a good road map for success."

                      If trainers were not important to the training process we would just give new leaders a book to read! Some still read books I hear.

                      Yours Truly in Scouting,
                      Rick Pushies
                    • Jim
                      Richard, Could you please state your source for this quote (BSA Training Philosophy). It too is spot on ! Yours in Scouting, -- Jim ... [Non-text portions of
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 29 3:36 AM
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                        Richard,

                        Could you please state your source for this quote (BSA Training
                        Philosophy). It too is "spot on"!

                        Yours in Scouting,
                        -- Jim



                        On May 28, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Richard C. Pushies wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Henderson" <chazzjh@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > "Training is interesting and valuable due to the way it is presented
                        > by people who have walked the talk. In my experience much of what
                        > the trainees want to know is not in the slides so significant time
                        > is consumed verbally filling in. It would be much better if this
                        > information were incorporated directly into the formal material over
                        > time so that each district ends up with a more complete course
                        > customized to its particular needs."
                        >
                        > Hi Charlie,
                        >
                        > Here, here my good man. Spot on! Some may not be familiar with the
                        > BSA Training Philosophy, so I will share it now.
                        >
                        > Trainer's Philosophy
                        > "As trainers in the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, and
                        > Venturing programs, we are often the very first non-unit Scouters
                        > that many adults encounter upon joining Scouting. Trainers should
                        > strive to be the personal embodiment of the ideal Scouter. The
                        > image, attitudes, messages, and example we portray can often mean
                        > the difference between adults remaining in and expanding their role
                        > in Scouting and losing them for good.
                        >
                        > The information we convey to our participants during training
                        > sessions goes far beyond any syllabus. Our example speaks louder
                        > than any words we can present.
                        >
                        > The core values of all we do in Scouting are the Scout Oath and Law.
                        > Connecting our roles as trainers to the Scout Law is a good road map
                        > for success."
                        >
                        > If trainers were not important to the training process we would just
                        > give new leaders a book to read! Some still read books I hear.
                        >
                        > Yours Truly in Scouting,
                        > Rick Pushies
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard C. Pushies
                        Hi Jim, This is a fairly new quote for me too. It comes from the Trainer s EDGE syllabus on page 71 under the heading of Trainer s Code of Conduct. In this
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 29 7:10 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Jim,

                          This is a fairly new quote for me too. It comes from the Trainer's EDGE syllabus on page 71 under the heading of Trainer's Code of Conduct.

                          In this section you will find the Trainer's Creed (Which has been around for a long time.), the Trainer's Philosophy and a version of the Scout Law dedicated to trainers. This is pretty cool and all trainers should not only read this version but share it with fellow trainers. An example of one point of the Scout Law for trainers.

                          "Kind
                          Trainers always praise in public and correct in private. Trainers are mindful of adults who are shy, quiet, or intimidated and seek to put them at ease."

                          As with the traditional Scout Law this version contains much wisdom.

                          Your can find the Trainer's EDGE syllabus online at
                          http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/26-242.pdf

                          Or, you can access the file "Trainer's Code of Conduct" file that contains the relevant pages on the Trainer's Code of Conduct I extracted from the syllabus. I put the file in a new folder titled "Trainer Inspiration." There are many good items that inspire trainers (Me included!) that are well worth sharing with our fellow trainers. I also posted a Word document with the poem "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft originally published in Scouting Magazine in 1950. This is a "Spot On" poem every parent, Scouter, and professional Scouter should read.

                          Yours Truly in Scouting,
                          Rick Pushies
                          805-925-9144


                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jim <scoutingislife@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Richard,
                          >
                          > Could you please state your source for this quote (BSA Training
                          > Philosophy). It too is "spot on"!
                          >
                          > Yours in Scouting,
                          > -- Jim
                        • Jim
                          Rick, Thank you very much for your reply. It was most Helpful and enlightening. Yours in Scouting, -- Jim ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 29 4:29 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Rick,
                            Thank you very much for your reply. It was most "Helpful" and
                            enlightening.
                            Yours in Scouting,
                            -- Jim





                            On May 29, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Richard C. Pushies wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Jim,
                            >
                            > This is a fairly new quote for me too. It comes from the Trainer's
                            > EDGE syllabus on page 71 under the heading of Trainer's Code of
                            > Conduct.
                            >
                            > In this section you will find the Trainer's Creed (Which has been
                            > around for a long time.), the Trainer's Philosophy and a version of
                            > the Scout Law dedicated to trainers. This is pretty cool and all
                            > trainers should not only read this version but share it with fellow
                            > trainers. An example of one point of the Scout Law for trainers.
                            >
                            > "Kind
                            > Trainers always praise in public and correct in private. Trainers
                            > are mindful of adults who are shy, quiet, or intimidated and seek to
                            > put them at ease."
                            >
                            > As with the traditional Scout Law this version contains much wisdom.
                            >
                            > Your can find the Trainer's EDGE syllabus online at
                            > http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/26-242.pdf
                            >
                            > Or, you can access the file "Trainer's Code of Conduct" file that
                            > contains the relevant pages on the Trainer's Code of Conduct I
                            > extracted from the syllabus. I put the file in a new folder titled
                            > "Trainer Inspiration." There are many good items that inspire
                            > trainers (Me included!) that are well worth sharing with our fellow
                            > trainers. I also posted a Word document with the poem "Within My
                            > Power" by Forest Witcraft originally published in Scouting Magazine
                            > in 1950. This is a "Spot On" poem every parent, Scouter, and
                            > professional Scouter should read.
                            >
                            > Yours Truly in Scouting,
                            > Rick Pushies
                            > 805-925-9144
                            >
                            > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Jim <scoutingislife@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Richard,
                            > >
                            > > Could you please state your source for this quote (BSA Training
                            > > Philosophy). It too is "spot on"!
                            > >
                            > > Yours in Scouting,
                            > > -- Jim
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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